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Jan 7, 1999, 2:11am

For that matter, a bot does not need to be "in" the world at all in order to
build, as the #2 sample program shows. A bot can manipulate property behind
the scenes without having an avatar physically in the world.

In other words, yes, avatars and chat are handled separately from property.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 7, 1999, 2:24am

Since some of the other responses to this question might be a little
confusing, I'll try to give my own answers as concisely as possible.

>1. I've installed AW_CALLBACK_OBJECT_RESULT, the callback for the
>methods aw_object_add, aw_object_change and aw_object_delete, but I'm
>not sure which attributes apply. The documentation mentions somewhere
>only aw_int(AW_OBJECT_NUMBER).


That is the only attribute that is defined during AW_CALLBACK_OBJECT_RESULT.
If you have multiple building requests outstanding, you use the object
number to match up the result with the request that you issued.

>2. In aw_object_change, aw_int_set(AW_OBJECT_OWNER, Owner) should be
>specified acording to the docs, but that's not the case in the other 2
>methods. Is that correct?


That is correct. In aw_object_add, the owner is always the owner of the bot
who is building, and aw_object_delete does not care who owns the object,
only whether or not your bot is allowed to delete it, which the server can
determine for itself. :)

I think someone said that you only need to set AW_OBJECT_OWNER if you want
to change owner. This isn't quite correct - the new owner number is always
sent to the server as part of the aw_object_change, so you must always set
this attribute, even if the owner is you. Otherwise you might wind up
sending a garbage value to the server for the new owner number.

>3. Does one have to call aw_instance_set(Instance) before setting
>attributes in these 3 methods?


As with any other method, this depends on what you have done since the last
time you called aw_instance_set(). If you have called aw_wait() or any
synchronous API methods and this is a multi-instance application, then yes
you must call aw_instance_set() first.

>4. What is the function of AW_OBJECT_SESSION? Is this attribute also
>used here, or in the callback?


AW_OBJECT_SESSION indicates which avatar around you is doing the building
during a live add or a live delete. It is only used during those two
events. It corresponds to the AW_AVATAR_SESSION attribute given in
AVATAR_ADD events. Its primary purpose is to distinguish live building
events that you caused from live building events caused by other people
(although there are other interesting potential uses for it.) In other
worlds, if aw_int (AW_OBJECT_SESSION) equals aw_session(), then this
building event was triggered by your bot.

Note that it is possible that this session number will not correspond to any
avatar that you have received an AVATAR_ADD for. For example, if the
building were being done by another bot that has not announced its location
by calling aw_state_change().

>5. I assume that aw_instance applies everywhere in querying and
>building events and callbacks: am I correct?


Yes,

-Roland

Jan 7, 1999, 10:44pm

Did I forget to document this as well? Damn.

The object number is not created on the server, it is created by the SDK for
you and stored in the attribute AW_OBJECT_NUMBER. Immediately after calling
aw_object_add() or aw_object_change() (even in the asynchronous case)
AW_OBJECT_NUMBER holds the newly assigned object number. You can remember
its value at that point to match up the later results with the requests.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 7, 1999, 10:56pm

No this isn't correct, sorry for the confusion on this topic. You can
always use AW_OBJECT_NUMBER to uniquely identify which build request is
which. See my other post in this thread.

Also, within a single world the AW_CALLBACK_OBJECT_RESULT callbacks always
occur in the same order that that the building requests were issued.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 8, 1999, 7:15pm

Yes, that is correct. In the synchronous case, the return code of
add/change/delete indicates whether or not the the building operation
succeeded. Obviously, from a code complexity standpoint these operations
are far easier to deal with in synchronous mode. However, if you want to do
large numbers of building operations quickly, synchronous mode will
generally be too slow, hence the need for asynchronous mode.

In asynchronous mode, the return value will almost always be RC_SUCCESS,
unless there is some fundamental problem with the current state of the
session that is preventing the transmission of build requests to the server
(e.g. a network communication failure.)

In either case (synchronous or asynchronous) AW_OBJECT_NUMBER will be valid
immediately after the call returns.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 8, 1999, 7:38pm

That's right :) The reason the SDK assigns the number is precisely so that
you can correlate the server response with the request (in asynchronous
mode). If the server assigned the number, then we would still have to
create some other kind of transaction number or something to match up
requests and replies. This way it kills two birds with one stone. :)

When developing the SDK I toyed with the idea of requiring the programmer to
assign the new object number manually before calling aw_object_add (e.g. by
calling aw_int_set (AW_OBJECT_NUMBER, aw_random()) but that seemed like it
would just create extra work and extra room for mistakes...

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 7, 1999, 10:38pm

>With the help and suggestions of Roland and Walter in previous
>postings, I've been experimenting with WFS, using the technique of
>unplugging the modem, equivalent, I supposed, to a connection failure
>of my provider.
>
>AW_WORLD_DISCONNECT does help if you have an instance logged into a
>world. You get the (new) reason 471 RC_CONNECTION_LOST.
>
>It takes about a minute before you get this message. In my experience,
>after getting this message, aw_wait blocks. The program responds once
>every half minute approximately. aw_wait also does not return an error
>code.


The one minute delay in this case is a result of the fact that typically,
unplugging your modem takes a while to manifest itself within the network
layer of the operating system. Unplugging the modem does not generate any
immediate errors; rather, it appears to the system simply as a stall in the
flow of data. Eventually, the SDK will timeout after not receiving any data
from the server, and will then generate the AW_EVENT_WORLD_DISCONNECTevent.

Under other circumtances, AW_EVENT_WORLD_DISCONNECTwill be triggered much
more quickly, such as when your bot is ejected from the world (although the
reason code will be different in that case.) Also, if the world server is
shut down while your bot is inside, that typically causes an immediate error
condition on the socket so it will also cause an immediate
AW_EVENT_WORLD_DISCONNECT event as well.

aw_wait() should not block in this case. It definitely does not block in
this case when the SDK is being used by the AW browser, I have been testing
that case extensively over the last week so I am sure about that.

aw_wait() does not return an error code because it isn't an error to call
aw_wait() when you are not conneted to a world. Also, and this definitely
needs to be documented better, calling aw_wait() after the connection has
been lost (in the RC_CONNECTION_LOST case) will actually cause the SDK to
attempt to re-establish connection with the world server automatically.

>If the instance is only logged into the universe and not into a world
>when disconnection occurs, you don't get any message at all

That is correct. Loss of connection with the universe does not manifest
itself at the API level. This could probably be handled better. What your
app should do is continue to call aw_wait() periodically; it will continue
to attempt to re-establish the connection with the universe server
automatically.

aw_wait
>blocks as previously, and you can, in the brief moments that the
>program does respond, log into any imaginary world you want, aw_enter
>returns 0 SUCCESS. You'll get then the world attributes of the world
>you were previously visiting.


Whoa! That definitely does NOT sound right. I will have to check into
this.

>I haven't yet experimented with disconnection caused by the world or
>uniserver. I suppose aw_wait will block only if you attempt to stay in
>a world that fails to connect, or the uniserver fails.
>
>I reason that since aw_wait serves all instances in a multi-instance
>case, a failure of aw_wait will affect every instance, even those
>connected. Haven't tested this.
>
>Something to work on when the 2.1 rush is over?
>
>Any suggestions of enlightments welcome. XelaG.

Jan 8, 1999, 7:07pm

Yes, that is correct. This is also known as "Unix time".

As for VRT, not everyone likes to see times in VRT all the time. I, for
one, prefer to see times in my local time, because that's where I live, and
then I don't have to convert back and forth from VRT to know when something
*really* occurred. It depends on what I'm trying to do. I appreciate the
purpose of VRT, I'm just saying it's not always the most useful format for
displaying times in all circumstances.

An option in the browser to toggle between showing times in VRT and local
time is on my list somewhere...

-Roland

[View Quote]

Jan 15, 1999, 1:25am

Hi folks,

I'm sorry I have not been able to keep up with the SDK newsgroup for the
last several days, I've been completely overwhelmed dealing with the beta
release of version 2.1. I see there are a lot of questions piling up here
in my absence...again, I apologize and I will try to get back in here and
answer your questions as soon as possible.

In the meantime, if you haven't already signed up for the beta and are
interested in doing so, please see the web page at:

http://www.activeworlds.com/beta.html


-Roland

Jan 26, 1999, 6:30am

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Hmm, I don't think people are realizing that the original post, along =
with all of the replies, are being cross-posted to every single =
newsgroup on the AW site. Folks, this is why blanket cross-posting is =
bad. Please make sure that when you make a new post, it only goes to =
the relevant newsgroups. When you reply to a post that strikes you as =
off-topic for that newsgroup, check the headers - it might have just =
been cross-posted to all newsgroups by an irresponsible user, and if you =
reply, your reply is also going to every single newsgroup as well by =
default.

If you do cross-post to 'beta' and/or 'sdk' you risk losing your entire =
post since those newsgroups are moderated and off-topic posts may be =
deleted.

-Roland

[View Quote] [View Quote] Is this a beta report??=20
[View Quote] =20

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HTML//EN">
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hmm, I don't think people are =
realizing that the=20
original post, along with all of the replies, are being cross-posted to =
every=20
single newsgroup on the AW site.&nbsp; Folks, this is why blanket =
cross-posting=20
is bad.&nbsp; Please make sure that when you make a new post, it only =
goes to=20
the relevant newsgroups.&nbsp; When you reply to a post that strikes you =
as=20
off-topic for that newsgroup, check the headers - it might have just =
been=20
cross-posted to all newsgroups by an irresponsible user, and if you =
reply, your=20
reply is also going to every single newsgroup as well by =
default.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If you do cross-post to 'beta' =
and/or 'sdk' you=20
risk losing your entire post since those newsgroups are moderated and =
off-topic=20
posts may be deleted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
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Feb 3, 1999, 7:46pm

Hi,

by popular demand, a new newsgroup called "bots" has been created on the
activeworlds.com news server. This will be an unmoderated user-to-user
newsgroup for the purpose of discussing bot issues, exchanging tips and
ideas about bot software, and the like.

The difference between the SDK newsgroup and "bots" is somewhat vague - but
the SDK newsgroup is intended primary for programmers developing
applications that make use of the Active Worlds SDK, which may be bots or
may be other types of programs. Thus, the focus of the SDK newsgroup is
relatively narrow; the purpose of the new "bots" newsgroup is to provide an
open forum for the discussion of the far broader topic of bots in general.

You can access the bots newsgroup via this URL:

news://news.activeworlds.com/bots

-Roland

Feb 8, 1999, 7:45am

It is an error to call aw_destroy() from within a callback. You are killing
the instance out from under the SDK while it is still processing events for
it. Sorry, this was not documented clearly in the SDK docs. I will update
them.

Arguably, the SDK should be able to handle this case, however that would
involve a significant amount of work. Perhaps in a future version...


-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 1999, 5:43pm

Hi Jim,

Could you please limit your posts to the SDK newsgroup to issues directly
related to the SDK. The topic of open-source is a fascinating one, this
just isn't the right forum for it.

Thanks,
Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 1999, 5:38pm

>I'm trying - and am having a great deal of success - developing a
higher>level
>interface to the aw.dll code. The idea is to create a higher level
language
>whereby people can still create the own bots but can do so with cheaper
>programming tools and more limited skill.


Great idea! I will agree that the SDK in its current form is difficult to
use. I do have plans for future versions that have some of its complexity
abstracted away as best as possible so that people can get up and running
quicker, but these changes may be a while coming so I'm sure it would be
useful to people if you attempted something like that now.

>However I am getting hung up on the aw_wait() function. Some questions:
>
>1) When does aw_wait return a non-zero return code


Basically, never. There are currently only two cases right now where
aw_wait will fail: 1) if you call it without calling aw_init() first, and 2)
if you call it when there are no bot instances to wait on (i.e. if you
haven't called aw_create() yet, or if you have destroyed all the bot
instances that you created.)

>2) What does aw_wait(-1) do. Process forever?


Yes.

>3) What does aw_wait(0) do?


It checks for any pending events or callbacks and then returns immediately.
This is useful if your application wants to spend as much time as possible
doing something else - say, for example, rendering a 3D scene :), and not
waiting around for messages on the network.

>4) If aw_wait is not being executed what happens to events that occur.
>Ignored and discarded? Stacked up awaiting a call to aw_wait?


It depends. If your application is making other synchronous calls to the
API, they will call aw_wait() implicitly so your application will not need
to call it. However, if you are not making any synchronous calls, your
application must call aw_wait() regularly or events and callbacks will not
be dispatched, and eventually your bot will be disconnected from the server
for not sending heartbeats (the "heartbeat" process which lets the server
know that your bot is still alive is handled implicitly by aw_wait).

>5) Is there a way to have aw_wait process an event then exit?


I'm not quite sure what you mean by this - can you explain in more detail?

>And on a related note: Has anyone done an "Eliza"-type psychotherapy
>chatterbot?


Not to my knowledge but this is something that I would *love* to see!

-Roland

Feb 9, 1999, 10:45pm

Build 13 of the SDK is now available. Please upgrade at your earliest
convenience:

http://aw.mpl.net/downloads/sdk.zip

Build 13 is (hopefully) going to be the last beta release of the SDK. The
official "release" of the SDK will be timed to coincide with the release of
the 2.1 browser, which should be just a few days from now.

Because of protocol changes that have occurred during the beta testing of
the SDK, builds of the SDK earlier than 13 are going to be disabled within
the next week or two, so it is important that you upgrade as soon as
possible.

Note: the attribute "AW_FILE_NAME", which was not used, has been removed
from aw.h in build 13.

Feb 10, 1999, 3:50am

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Unfortunately, supporting contact lists from SDK apps will require some =
significant re-write of the contact handling code in the uniserver. =
Currently the mechanism depends on the owner of a contact list having a =
unique citizen number, so that will have to be changed first.

Hopefully, we'll get this into a future version of AW...

-Roland
[View Quote] - =C6dificator=20


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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 =
transitional//en">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Unfortunately, supporting contact =
lists from SDK=20
apps will require some significant re-write of the contact handling code =
in the=20
uniserver.&nbsp; Currently the mechanism depends on the owner of a =
contact list=20
having a unique citizen number, so that will have to be changed=20
first.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hopefully, we'll get this into a future version of=20
AW...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV>&AElig;dificator<AEDIFICATOR~NOSPAM! at GEOCITIES.COM> wrote in =
message=20
&lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:36C116C8.3E00893A at geocities.com">36C116C8.3E00893A at geociti=
es.com</A>&gt;...</DIV>Roland,=20
if you will...=20
<P>What is/will be the status on the contact list capability=20
(aw_contact_stuff)?&nbsp; I haven't noticed any talk about it.&nbsp; =
I'm=20
making a tour guide, and it would be really nice to have it inform =
me of=20
visitors while I am away, much less the other stuff I can do with=20
it...&nbsp; Seeing it in the API reference is like yummy candy in a =
locked=20
glass case! heh heh=20
<P>- &AElig;dificator </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Feb 10, 1999, 5:44pm

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The file sending stuff you see in aw.h is only the requests that the =
browser uses to establish a file transfer session with another browser, =
since that part of the process occurs through the universe server. The =
guts of the peer-to-peer file transfer mechanism itself are not part of =
the SDK code, so even if these calls were available to an SDK app, you =
would still have to implement the actual file transfer part from =
scratch. Not very useful.

It's possible that we may include the entire file transfer mechanism in =
a future version of the SDK.

-Roland

[View Quote] - =C6dificator=20


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<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!doctype html =
public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The file sending stuff you see in =
aw.h is only=20
the requests that the browser uses to establish a file transfer session =
with=20
another browser, since that part of the process occurs through the =
universe=20
server.&nbsp; The guts of the peer-to-peer file transfer mechanism =
itself are=20
not part of the SDK code, so even if these calls were available to an =
SDK app,=20
you would still have to implement the actual file transfer part from =
scratch.=20
Not very useful.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's possible that we may include the entire file =
transfer=20
mechanism in a future version of the SDK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
[View Quote] &lt;36c11d81.1 at homer&gt;...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Unfortunately, supporting =
contact lists=20
from SDK apps will require some significant re-write of the =
contact=20
handling code in the uniserver.&nbsp; Currently the mechanism =
depends on=20
the owner of a contact list having a unique citizen number, so =
that will=20
have to be changed first.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hopefully, we'll get this into a future =
version of=20
AW...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
<DIV>&AElig;dificator<AEDIFICATOR~NOSPAM! at GEOCITIES.COM> =
wrote in=20
message &lt;<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:36C116C8.3E00893A at geocities.com">36C116C8.3E00893A at geociti=
es.com</A>&gt;...</DIV>Roland,=20
if you will...=20
<P>What is/will be the status on the contact list capability =

(aw_contact_stuff)?&nbsp; I haven't noticed any talk about =
it.&nbsp;=20
I'm making a tour guide, and it would be really nice to have =
it=20
inform me of visitors while I am away, much less the other =
stuff I=20
can do with it...&nbsp; Seeing it in the API reference is =
like yummy=20
candy in a locked glass case! heh heh=20
<P>- &AElig;dificator =
</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Feb 10, 1999, 10:52pm

I'm not aware of which changes specifically MrGrimm had in mind (we haven't
discussed it)...but whatever they are they will have to happen in a future
version of the SDK. Obviously VB compatibility is in big demand, so this is
something that is going to have to be addressed sooner or later.

Keep in mind, this is only the first version of the SDK. :) The SDK will
continue to evolve in functionality along with the rest of the Active Worlds
product line.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 12, 1999, 1:28am

Unfortunately the world size is not currently available via the SDK. A
future version will almost certainly make this parameter available as one of
the world attributes.

-Roland

[View Quote] Rjinswand

Feb 16, 1999, 1:43am

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If anyone has any suggestions for how to provide this easily, I'm all =
ears. As far as I can tell, it would be a mammoth project to include =
object collision within the SDK itself. Object collision would mean =
that, among other things, the SDK would have to download all the objects =
from the object path itself, unzip them, and load them in to RenderWare =
(note this would require that SDK apps now link to the RenderWare DLLs) =
in order to determine their geometry in order to check for collisions.

Some features I've been contemplating for future versions of Active =
Worlds may at some point make it so that an object's basic dimension =
information might be something that an SDK application could query from =
a world server. If this were provided then some basic collision =
detection could be provided, although it should be noted that object =
dimensions are not sufficient to provide highly accurate collision =
detection, only the more basic "bounding box" collision. The more =
precise polygon-based collision detection that the AW browsers provides =
requires knowledge of the complete geometry of the object.

-Roland

[View Quote]


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If anyone has any suggestions for =
how to provide=20
this easily, I'm all ears.&nbsp; As far as I can tell, it would be a =
mammoth=20
project to include object collision within the SDK itself.&nbsp; Object=20
collision would mean that, among other things, the SDK would have to =
download=20
all the objects from the object path itself, unzip them, and load them =
in to=20
RenderWare (note this would require that SDK apps now link to the =
RenderWare=20
DLLs) in order to determine their geometry in order to check for=20
collisions.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Some features I've been =
contemplating for future=20
versions of Active Worlds may at some point make it so that an object's =
basic=20
dimension information might be something that an SDK application could =
query=20
from a world server.&nbsp; If this were provided then some basic =
collision=20
detection could be provided, although it should be noted that object =
dimensions=20
are not sufficient to provide highly accurate collision detection, only =
the more=20
basic &quot;bounding box&quot; collision.&nbsp; The more precise =
polygon-based=20
collision detection that the AW browsers provides requires knowledge of =
the=20
complete geometry of the object.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
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Feb 16, 1999, 7:25pm

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For the reasons that RJ stated, as well as many others. For one thing, =
RenderWare is not available under Unix, and a Unix port of SDK is =
currently very high up on the to-do list. Also, it would immensely =
bloat the SDK out from a single 80K DLL to hundreds of K with multiple =
DLLs making it that much more difficult for newbies to get a handle on =
things. To me, including RenderWare with the SDK in order to provide =
collision detection would be like including Windows98 with a PalmPilot =
just so you could use the "dingbats" font.

Finally, and most seriously, there is a licensing problem. RenderWare =
is a licensed product. Our license does not give us the right to =
re-distribute it to developers for their own applications. If the SDK =
included RenderWare, no developer could legally release any program they =
wrote using the SDK.

In short, I do think that collision detection in the SDK is something =
that can and should be done. It's just that using RenderWare isn't the =
right way to do it. A future solution where the world server (or perhaps =
another server accessible via the SDK) has far more intimate knowledge =
of object geometry is far more appealing.

-Roland
[View Quote] RenderWare is only available for PC and Mac these days... =
they dropped all UNIX support with 2.1 I think. It IS a big deal =
requiring the Renderware DLLs for using the SDK. :/ Rjinswand =20
[View Quote] Roland, the AW browser must already have the code to do the =
object downloading and uncompressing in it. Is it not possible to =
include some of this in the SDK. This would give you the advantage of =
maintaining the same cache algorithms. There is just no rendering of the =
objects once you get them.=20

I agree you would need the renderware dlls to use the sdk =
but I don't think that is a big issue. You could pretentiously package =
the SDK into two portions, the existing AWSDK.dll and then a =
AWCOLLISION.dll plus renderware dlls. This would allow bots that do not =
require collision detection to be shipped in a smaller package.=20

[View Quote] Rather than have each bot do the object downloading =
it'd make a lot more sense in many ways to have the world server do this =
and maintain its own specialised object cache. Unfortunately, again we =
have the problem with Renderware tying us to a platform though... =
because only the Windows version of the world server would have these =
facilities. Alternatively someone could write a generic C rwx loading =
library (for geometry only) and that could be incorporated into the =
world server. Lots of possibilities, lots of work, lots of issues. =
Rjinswand Basically we're talking about a second database for the world =
server... the world server=20
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<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>For the reasons that RJ =
stated, as well=20
as many others.&nbsp; For one thing, RenderWare is not available under =
Unix, and=20
a Unix port of SDK is currently very high up on the to-do list.&nbsp; =
Also, it=20
would immensely bloat the SDK out from a single 80K DLL to hundreds of K =
with=20
multiple DLLs making it that much more difficult for newbies to get a =
handle on=20
things.&nbsp; To me, including RenderWare with the SDK in order to =
provide=20
collision detection would be like including Windows98 with a PalmPilot =
just so=20
you could use the &quot;dingbats&quot; font.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Finally, and most seriously, there is a licensing problem.&nbsp; =
RenderWare=20
is a licensed product. Our license does not give us the right to =
re-distribute=20
it to developers for their own applications.&nbsp; If the SDK included=20
RenderWare, no developer could legally release any program they wrote =
using the=20
SDK.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>In short, I do think that collision detection in the SDK is =
something that=20
can and should be done.&nbsp; It's just that using RenderWare isn't the =
right=20
way to do it. A future solution where the world server (or perhaps =
another=20
server accessible via the SDK) has far more intimate knowledge of object =

geometry is far more appealing.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>-Roland</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
[View Quote] =
href=3D"mailto:36C9C3EA.3019C74C at poboxes.com">36C9C3EA.3019C74C at poboxes.c=
om</A>&gt;...</DIV>Why=20
is a big deal to have to include the Renderware DLLs?=20
[View Quote] geometry only) and that could be incorporated into the =
world=20
server.&nbsp; Lots of possibilities, lots of work, lots =
of=20
issues.</FONT>&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#000000><FONT=20
size=3D-1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<B><I>Rjinswand</I></B></FONT></FONT>&nbsp; <FONT=20
color=3D#000000><FONT size=3D-1>Basically we're talking =
about a=20
second database for the world server... the world=20
server</FONT></FONT>=20
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Roland=20
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Feb 18, 1999, 6:23pm

Since we're being geeky here, I feel compelled to point out that once you
are at the surface, as you move closer towards the center of a solid sphere,
acceleration due to gravitational attraction from the sphere does not
continue to increase...consider the extreme case, where you are approaching
the exact center of the earth: net acceleration becomes zero, since all
parts of the earth are around you pulling on you equally.

I know, you were joking :)

-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 18, 1999, 8:05pm

Okay, I agree Holland's surface is lower, but this still isn't the reason
for the larger G :)

The force of gravity varies measurably over the surface of the earth due to
2 factors: 1) regional variations in the earth's density (the earth is not a
sphere of uniform density across the surface), and 2) distance from the
equator. Due to centripetal force from the earth's rotation, G appears to
be "less" at the equator, which is moving at something like 1000 miles/hour,
than at the poles.

It's amazing the lengths I'll go to avoid working on AW bugs :)

-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 19, 1999, 4:28pm

Exactly! I was never disputing that Holland has a higher gravity, I was
only disputing the explanation for this as being because their elevation was
lower. :)

By the way, the AW browser uses the value 9.8 meters/sec² for simulating
gravity.

Okay that is DEFINITELY enough! :)

-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 16, 1999, 1:47am

Hi folks,

this is a gentle reminder that you should upgrade all of your SDK
applications to use build 13 of the SDK as soon as possible. I can see from
the server logs that there are a lot of bots running out there that are
still using builds from 10 through 12. Builds 12 and earlier will be
disabled very soon, probably before the end of this week.

-Roland

Feb 17, 1999, 3:15pm

I am not sure what the plans are yet in this department. I will have to
check with mgmt and get back to you on that...allowing bots in these worlds
isn't so much related to whether the SDK is beta or released, it's related
to the potential for bot abuse in these worlds (e.g. massive robo building
projects) and whether or not people are actually going to abuse them.

-Roland

[View Quote]

Feb 18, 1999, 12:41am

Hi Xela,

I agree on all points. These problems must ultimately corrected by adding
new functionality (e.g. building quotas to defeat robo-building) not
blocking the existing functionality. However, with all new features we will
have interim phases where the potential for abuse will outpace our ability
to restrict that abuse, and during such phases we have to proceed
cautiously. The last thing I want to be doing for the next three months is
chasing after and banning people who abuse the SDK in public building
worlds...I'd much rather be working on new stuff, like the improvements you
suggested.

-Roland


[View Quote]

Feb 17, 1999, 4:20pm

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Hi folks,

as of this morning, the Active Worlds SDK has been officially =
"released." Build 13 is our first released version of the SDK.

What does this mean for you? Well, not much actually. :) It means that, =
technically, you can now start distributing SDK applications you have =
developed to other folks. I realize people were already doing this, but =
now the license actually allows it. :)

The other thing it means is that shortly you will be able to run your =
SDK applications in other universes. Now that the 2.1 browser has been =
released, we're hard at work preparing to upgrade the other universes =
out there...

My thanks go out to everyone who has helped test out the beta version of =
SDK over the last six months or so. Your testing and your feedback has =
been invaluable. I'm looking forward to seeing all of your great =
applications in action soon!

-Roland


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<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Hi folks,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>as of this morning, the Active Worlds SDK has =
been=20
officially &quot;released.&quot;&nbsp; Build 13 is our first released =
version of=20
the SDK.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>What does this mean for you?&nbsp; Well, not =
much=20
actually. :) It means that, technically, you can now start distributing =
SDK=20
applications you have developed to other folks.&nbsp; I realize people =
were=20
already doing this, but now the license actually allows it. =
:)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>The other thing it means is that shortly you =
will be=20
able to run your SDK applications in other universes.&nbsp; Now that the =
2.1=20
browser has been released, we're hard at work preparing to upgrade the =
other=20
universes out there...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>My thanks go out to everyone who has helped test out the beta =
version of=20
SDK over the last six months or so.&nbsp; Your testing and your feedback =
has=20
been invaluable.&nbsp; I'm looking forward to seeing all of your great=20
applications in action soon!</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>-Roland</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Feb 18, 1999, 6:16pm

These are two slightly different topics...multiple light sources and being
able to control the single global light source.

Multiple light sources *do* slow things down, but this shouldn't be any big
surprise, since RenderWare has to do extra calculations for each polygon for
each extra light that might be shining on it. That doesn't mean we won't
ever have them...it just makes them a bit less interesting since in general
we'd like to add things that speed AW up, not slow it down. :)

However, being able to control the global light source obviously wouldn't
have any effect on performance, and I agree it would be useful. It's just
something that hasn't made it to the top of the to-do list yet...

-Roland

[View Quote] You can simulate having light sources by manipulating the surface lighting
on objects. Use mostly or all ambient light, and then use high values for
areas in light and low values for those in shadow. I did the CreepyCaves in
aardvark using this method.

Unfortunately for having times of day, this would mean several versions of
each object... a chore to make and extra downloads. :/

Rjinswand

[View Quote]

Feb 18, 1999, 6:47pm

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Hi all,

SDK applications using build 12 and earlier of the SDK have now been =
disabled. If you are running one of these applications, please shut it =
down now. A few of them seem to be repeatedly trying to log back in to =
the universe, which is putting unnecessary load on the server.

Upgrading to build 13 should be quick and painless. Please take a =
moment to do so.

Thanks,
Roland


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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Hi all,</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>SDK applications using build 12 and earlier of the SDK have now =
been=20
disabled.&nbsp; If you are running one of these applications, please =
shut it=20
down now.&nbsp; A few of them seem to be repeatedly trying to log back =
in to the=20
universe, which is putting unnecessary load on the server.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Upgrading to build 13 should be quick and painless.&nbsp; Please =
take a=20
moment to do so.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Thanks,</DIV>
<DIV>Roland</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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