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The Great tS7 Bucketwheel Render Challenge
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
The Great tS7 Bucketwheel Render Challenge // Work in Progress
Post by geneg // Apr 2, 2006, 12:23pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Hi Gang:
Time for a bit of Fun! I have a mesh of a huge bucketwheel excavator that I made back in tS5. I have updated the scene and added layers for a tS6.0 scene. I also have a render done in tS6.0, but I don't own tS7.
So........ I am challenging all you tS7 owners out there to create a scene using this model and render it in one of the new render engines in 7. I really want someone out there to show off what tS7 can really do with a complicated model. As I said, this model is complex. Sections of it (see the layers) are set up to articulate (rotate around or up and down).
If you only have tS6 then try it out anyway as I feel this would be a great model to tear apart, reverse engineer or just plain use as a learning tool. Feel free to modify it, add textures, more details or whatever you like. Change the ground, add some backgrounds or make an animation (OpieJuan did it once).
This goes out for private (not Commercial) use only. Feel free to download it. Contests are of course allowed, but if your going to make money off this, we need to talk. Just reference my name somewhere when posting renders (model by geneg).
Enjoy |
Post by stoker // Apr 2, 2006, 12:28pm
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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Thanks for sharing Geneg:jumpy: :jumpy: ;) ;) |
Post by GraySho // Apr 2, 2006, 12:59pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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That's indeed a very nice and detailed model. You must have been working for hours on that. Is all that detailling off your head or did you have good reference? |
Post by Mike // Apr 2, 2006, 4:13pm
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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Cool Gene!
Here's a quick test, 15 minute VRay render using HDRI/GI w/soft shadows (NO lights). Had to crop the bajeebers out of it to fit the forum limit. |
Post by JaimeS // Apr 2, 2006, 9:13pm
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JaimeS
Total Posts: 14
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http://www.zamalloacafe.com/tmp/BucketSM.jpg
Click here for the LARGE version!!!
http://www.zamalloacafe.com/tmp/Bucket.jpg
Well i like this view and i made it BIG!
Well i used TS7 and VRay at default settings. Env and Soft Shadows enabled. I actually love how images come out using just the defaults. I made the image larger then life because then geneg can decide to use the image in cropped sizes for added detail showing only part of it.
Sorry for starting a riot. I understood if the image was uploaded onto Caligari site it has to be smaller. I uploaded to my site. Oh well no harm done. Enjoy.
I love it Great Job. :rolleyes: |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 2, 2006, 11:08pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yeah good work Jaime - but TOO big. There is a size limit for images on these forums - Maximum
size is 800x600. I had to save your image to my hard drive and resize it an image program so I could see it all in one go without having
to scroll all over to see it.
Additionally, because of it's size it took forever to download - not all of us are on broadband - in my country the telecom monopolies
over-charge for broadband and so put it out of reach of poorer folk like me :mad: .
Lastly, you don't give us any info about how you rendered this so it's not much help for comparison purposes. Is this tS 6.6 or tS 7 and,
if it is 7 then which renderer did you use?
You might like to edit your post and replace your big image with one that fits forum guidlines of 800x600 and give us some more info to go on.
Good work though despite my bitching! |
Post by Alien // Apr 3, 2006, 1:57am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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There is a size limit for images on these forums - Maximum size is 800x600. I had to save your image to my hard drive and resize it an image program so I could see it all in one go without having to scroll all over to see it.
I think it's very inconsiderate as it causes anyone else who uses a lower screen res trying to view the thread to have to scroll side to side to read other posts in the thread! :mad:
W!ZARD: a tip - if you keep something like PSP [or even MS Windows Picture & Fax Viewer] open, you can just drag an image from the browser to the taskbar button for whichever image prog, wait for said prog to pop up, then drag into prog window & let go & the image [located in your browser cache] will open in that app. With WP&FV it'll automatically zoom out on an image that's too large [so it fits in the window], whereas with PSP it'll only do that if you haven't turned off its option to autozoom large images, in which case you can just use your mouse wheel to zoom out.
Additionally, because of it's size it took forever to download
Yeah man, it took over 3 seconds here... wait, nevermind. ;) [j/k, sorry W!ZARD :)]
- not all of us are on broadband - in my country the telecom monopolies over-charge for broadband and so put it out of reach of poorer folk like me :mad: .
Hmm - 1 of the [few] downsides to you guys having such a small population. Not enough people to kick up a fuss about prices & so give rise to new companies offering lower prices, & thus kicking off a price war. :( |
Post by Mike // Apr 3, 2006, 6:17pm
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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Looking back, I used some very scary colors there didn't I?
:D
It was a late Sunday night quick enthusiastic test after all... but I don't think it's to shabby for a 15 minute render at 900+ pixels wide without lights. Tweaking to remove noise and better scene setup, environment, background will help, and then the animation of course. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 3, 2006, 11:27pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yeah man, it took over 3 seconds here... wait, nevermind. ;) [j/k, sorry W!ZARD :)]
Hmm - 1 of the [few] downsides to you guys having such a small population. Not enough people to kick up a fuss about prices & so give rise to new companies offering lower prices, & thus kicking off a price war. :(
3 seconds? (goes looking for a really depressed emoticon).
Thanks for the tip re resizing - I'll give it a go though I don't use the progs you mention - it's more the hassle of needing to scroll to read the posts that triggers the frustration.
Re broadband costs here - the government has just forced NZ Telecom to lower it's pricing so broadband is now available at around a dollar a day (the price of a loaf of bread ;) ).
Jaime - thanks for reducing the image size and giving us some more technical info - very interesting to know you used default settings here. |
Post by Alien // Apr 4, 2006, 3:43am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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3 seconds? (goes looking for a really depressed emoticon).
The whole page took longer than that, I just estimated the time for that 1 image based on it's filesize [837.56KB, IIRC] & my maximum speed [~250KB/sec]. :o
Thanks for the tip re resizing - I'll give it a go though I don't use the progs you mention - it's more the hassle of needing to scroll to read the posts that triggers the frustration.
You don't use Paint Shop Pro? Don't tell me you use.... <shudder> Photoshop? :eek:
I keep WP&FV (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Picture_and_Fax_Viewer) open all the time as it doesn't use much memory, & comes in handy, not just for too-big images, but also for too-small images as well. For some daft reason (http://ask-leo.com/what_if_i_want_windows_picture_and_fax_viewer.html ) there isn't a shortcut for it on the start menu, but unless you've actually associated JPGs or GIFs with a different app, just click on either 1 of those types from Explorer & it'll open in WP&FV [as that's what they're associated with by default in XP].
Re broadband costs here - the government has just forced NZ Telecom to lower it's pricing so broadband is now available at around a dollar a day (the price of a loaf of bread ;) ).
Hmmm - could still be better. Using something that doesn't [here at least] tend to vary quite so much in price depending on where it's bought, a 2pint wotsit of milk is about £0.60 on average, & I pay £25/month for a 2Mbit [~250KB/sec download, upload's around ~20-25KB/sec] connection. IIRC, 1Mbit is only £13. I'm glad to hear that NZ broadband is heading towards a more reasonable price for you. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 5, 2006, 1:31am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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You don't use Paint Shop Pro? Don't tell me you use.... <shudder> Photoshop? :eek:
:)
Actually what I use is Ability Photopaint, part of the Ability Office suit. I have an older version that I got circa 2001 and I'm pretty happy happy with it - most importantly it has layers and a range of blending modes, plus the usual most common drawing tools, filters and what have you - I believe it will read .PSP files (at least older ones) but have never had reason to do this. There are two main reasons I use it - first, it does everything I normally want and second - it was totally free:banana: .
The other image prog I use most is the utterly brilliant (and also free) Irfanview. I have lots of my image files as .TGA which a lot of MS apps wont read - Irfanview has heaps more functionality than WP&FV and I use it almost exclusively as my graphics browser - I have a shortcut to it in my quick launch toolbar so I can get to it straight away which is very handy -incidentally I just tried the drag and drop technique you suggested with Irfanview and it worked a treat! Thanks for the tip.
I do basically all of my graphic work using just three programs - trueSpace, Ability Photopaint and Irfanview. I have a selection of other progs that I use from time to time - terragen, Bryce 5.5 for graphics plus I use MS Word and MS Publisher a bit for other stuff - but the first three get by far the most use.
Anyway, apologies to gene for hijacking his thread :o We now return you to your regular scheduled program!! |
Post by Alien // Apr 5, 2006, 4:32am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Actually what I use is Ability Photopaint, part of the Ability Office suit. I have an older version that I got circa 2001 and I'm pretty happy happy with it
Ability office... haven't heard of that in ages. I think I saw it on mag CD once, but either it was only a demo, or I didn't like the look/feel of it or something.
most importantly it has layers and a range of blending modes, plus the usual most common drawing tools, filters and what have you - I believe it will read .PSP files (at least older ones) but have never had reason to do this.
I never used to bother with using .psp [.pspimage in PSP9] file format, but then I discovered the usefulness of layers & the fact that you can save without any compression [useful if you're working on something & end up saving multiple times]. It's basically PSP's answer to Photoshop's .psd.
There are two main reasons I use it - first, it does everything I normally want and second - it was totally free:banana: .
My favourite price. :) On your limited budget I figured you might have had to go for something a little gentler on the wallet, though I was actually expecting you to say you used the GIMP (http://www.gimp.org/).
I just tried the drag and drop technique you suggested with Irfanview and it worked a treat! Thanks for the tip.
You're welcome. Drag'n'drop will work with pretty much any app as long as both source & destination app support the drag'n'drop protocol [OLE?], & the destination app supports the type of data being dropped.
plus I use MS Word and MS Publisher a bit for other stuff
I would have thought you would use Ability office instead of those 2, or were they freebies as well?
Anyway, apologies to gene for hijacking his thread :o We now return you to your regular scheduled program!!
LOL. Alien & W!ZARD - topic hijackers extraordinaire, "All your threads are belong to us!" :D j/k, sorry geneg. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 5, 2006, 4:22pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I've downloaded the whole Ability Office suite originally but only ever used the Photopaint (for the layers). When I upgraded from Win98 to XP I was surprised to find Photopaint still worked - and as they say in the navy - if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
I did look at the gimp but had a severe case of UI rejection - It just didn't strike me as user friendly interface and besides, photopaint, apart from occasionally scrambling itself when saving to jpg works fine for me.
I'm tempted to rave a bit more about Irfanview as I think it totally rocks but I'll spare you...
Re MS Word and Publisher - when I upgraded to XP I also upgraded my MS Office suit (Office 2003). I originally learnt word processing etc on MS Office apps (back when I was well enough to work) and I couldn't live without them - the ability office stuff is a bit lightweight by comparison and now quite old especially compared to Office 2003.
LOL. Alien & W!ZARD - topic hijackers extraordinaire, "All your threads are belong to us!" :D LOL - we'll have the forum police after us soon - maybe we should go find another thread to hijack?? (not really:rolleyes: ) |
Post by spacekdet // Apr 5, 2006, 5:58pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Your penalty for wanton thread-poaching is to take up Gene's challenge and render the bucketwheel model in whatever version of tS you have, and then post the results here. (See thread topic, cough). |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 5, 2006, 8:45pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Your penalty for wanton thread-poaching is to take up Gene's challenge and render the bucketwheel model in whatever version of tS you have, and then post the results here. (See thread topic, cough).
Chuckle! Sounds fair enough to me, Spacekadet - I just hope I can fit Genes big digger into my wee computer - I don't suppose I could just model a garden spade instead?:D No OK - I'll give it a go - how about you Alien? Are you up for it? |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 5, 2006, 11:24pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hmmn. Sadly I have been unable to download your digger Gene - it maybe my creakingly slow steam-powered dial-up connection but I get about 80% of the file and no more:( . Like, bummer man! I was looking forward to playing with your bucket digger.
I'll try and download it again later on - I may have more success when the NZ end of the net is not so busy.... |
Post by Alien // Apr 6, 2006, 2:31am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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:D LOL - we'll have the forum police after us soon - maybe we should go find another thread to hijack?? (not really:rolleyes: )
Hmmm... problem solved (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=587). :)
how about you Alien? Are you up for it?
Think I'll pass. This isn't a criticism of the model in any way, I just don't see much point in me rendering it. I don't know enough to acheive anything with it that anyone else hasn't already.
Hmmn. Sadly I have been unable to download your digger Gene - it maybe my creakingly slow steam-powered dial-up connection but I get about 80% of the file and no more:( . Like, bummer man! I was looking forward to playing with your bucket digger.
I'll try and download it again later on - I may have more success when the NZ end of the net is not so busy....
Here you go, here's a smaller (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/misc/bucketex17.exe) [better compression] copy, in a self extracting RAR .exe. Wasn't sure if you had WinRAR or another prog that could extract RAR files, & it only makes 50KB difference to the file size [749KB]. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 11, 2006, 10:43pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Your penalty for wanton thread-poaching is to take up Gene's challenge and render the bucketwheel model in whatever version of tS you have, and then post the results here. (See thread topic, cough).
By your command! (As the original Cylons used to say!). As directed I've rendered the Bucketwheel digger - the result can be seen in the Finished Artworks Forum under the title Dig This (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=6805#post6805) |
Post by Mike // Apr 12, 2006, 9:45am
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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I suppose technically you have "posted the result here", how about a copy to view in this thread too! Great job! :)
By your command! (As the original Cylons used to say!). As directed I've rendered the Bucketwheel digger - the result can be seen in the Finished Artworks Forum under the title Dig This (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=6805#post6805) |
Post by geneg // Apr 14, 2006, 9:16am
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Hi Gang:
Hmmm, 57 downloads of the mesh, almost 700 views of the thread and only 3 renders? C'mon people, surely somebody else has a render sitting on their puter waiting to be seen by an eagerly render hungry public.
Show off a bit, everybody is friendly here, especially me, I'm more than eager to see what you guys have done with the BWE. Newbie, Intermediate, Render God, or even old geezer like me, it makes no difference, get your name out there and say 'Hello' with a render. Hmmm, sounds like an TV ad for flowers doesn't it.
Render Sumpthin'.
Mike - I happen to like the colors you used, kinda southwest desert feel to it.
JaimeS - good work, thank for showing it.
W!ZARD - Awesome story you make up there. And the BWE got a new paint job too.
So, we got 2 tS7 with Vray and one tS6.6 and my semi-new tS6.0. Anybody else want to dive in here?
geneg |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 14, 2006, 12:52pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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I tried rendering it and only suceeded in locking up my computer:p |
Post by noko // Apr 14, 2006, 2:19pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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ahhh, alright ;). Used new render to file feature of TS7.1 Player, didn't have that before. Love your model by the way :jumpy:. Probably not what you are looking for but I am having alot of fun with your creation. AWESOME! |
Post by geneg // Apr 14, 2006, 3:48pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Noko - looks like the workers set up some big spot lights to do a little night work. I like it.
Brian - I don't remember what version of tS you are using, but the digger is a tS6.0 scene file. If you are using anything earlier than that I doubt it will work. If you or anyone requests that I upload the tS5 version of this scene, I can probably do that. Not sure if I can go back to tS 4 or tS 3, I'd have to do some research.
geneg |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 14, 2006, 8:08pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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geneg: lol, it set my poor computer on overload, I haven't had problems with different versions of models before, maybe if I were to change the material settings it'd work. I'm using 3.2 by the way. |
Post by Mike // Apr 15, 2006, 4:35am
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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Hi Emma, good to see another render!
I didn't experience a computer hang up when I loaded the model, but it did take a minute or two to load, and you're correct that it will take longer to load with the bridge enabled. I was in a custom layout partially shown in my screen capture, with the bridge on (as VRay is dependent upon Player side). My habit is to save the scene to the stack scene library (Rosetta).
Gene, how long does it take to load into tS6 on your system?
Noko, good thinking to do a Player render, looks good! |
Post by noko // Apr 15, 2006, 7:14am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Thanks geneg and mike, I love the long lines and complex detail of this model, thinking of doing a flyby, flythrough or something using clintonman and Dele's Player animation files generator using either key frames or procedural. More later. |
Post by TomG // Apr 15, 2006, 8:26am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Do check the "good modeling guide" chapter in the tS manual. There you will find a description of how hierarchies affect performance across the bridge.
What I did with this mesh was save out all the top level parts to a model library, then load them in one by one and apply MeshCollapse (which booleans a hierarchy into one object).
Hierarchies will slow the bridge significantly, and affect any processes that are done which send info across the bridge (so material painting might be slow, for instance).
Turning off the bridge avoids this, but you'll need the Bridge on to render in V-Ray - you can either just turn it on once ready to render and wait while info is sent from modeler to player, or you can do something like flatten out some or all of the hierarchies as I did. Both will give you better performance.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Mike // Apr 15, 2006, 5:38pm
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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Hey Tom, maybe upload a modified scene/model (or provide to Gene to upload) that meets the tS7 hierarchy suggestions. |
Post by JPSofCA // Apr 15, 2006, 11:02pm
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Total Posts: 300
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Also, I missed the thread [if one exists] that explains why rendering with VRay in model view requires the bridge to player view to be open. Would someone please post the link, or the online manual page number, or an explanation why this is so?
I'm just curious is all - I don't understand what a rendering engine would need from a player view that may not be in use.
Also, in another thread Alien points out the "X" series of ATI cards supporting DX9.0c. Mine is the Radeon 9550 - which handles the program well - but now I know I'm missing out on something. Does this mean that my VRay isn't doing all it can, or just not feeding off of "accelerated" output, or what?
All clarification will be highly appreciated.
P.S. geneg, I've downloaded the model (and think it's awesome) and want to render something with it but have had very little time so far - sorry. I do have a "twist" to try out after I get my taxes done and have a day off work.
Anyway it's 2:00am and I just got home from work, and have to go right back tomorrow.... |
Post by Mike // Apr 16, 2006, 5:26am
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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Hi, it is in the VRay document:
"There is one important aspect where V-Ray support differs from other trueSpace render engines - even though the user interface is fully integrated into the Modeler aspect, V-Ray support is based on the contents of the Player in trueSpace. The scene description (geometry, lights, and materials) is taken from the Player scene graph, so rendering relies on the Bridge between the Modeler and the Player for scene synchronization."
Also, rendering in medium or lower quality setting will use texture maps from Player vs. the actual image file. Same situation when using procedural LW color shaders that are converted to texture map in Player when VRay is used.
hth
Also, I missed the thread [if one exists] that explains why rendering with VRay in model view requires the bridge to player view to be open. Would someone please post the link, or the online manual page number, or an explanation why this is so? I'm just curious is all - I don't understand what a rendering engine would need from a player view that may not be in use. |
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