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Strange Discoveries
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Strange Discoveries // Work in Progress
Post by Breech Block // Feb 2, 2009, 9:48am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks for all the comments guys.
@ TomG - They're infinite lights rendered with lightworks. But with all those suggestions you made I'm sure I'll be able to work out something now. Many thanks.
@ Finis - Lol, thanks Finis. I'm actually working on 4 projects if you count the ReBoot Animation as well.;) As for effeciency, I have four computers, 4 mice and have learned to use a mouse with my feet. Err, just kidding before you all go out and try it.:D The truth is I get bored very, very quickly. So, having several fairly diverse projects on the go at the same time means I can always find a project that matches my current mood and motivation.
@ Marcel - Another great tip Marcel - thanks, I've never used that feature before. This project is turning in to quite an eye-opener. |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 3, 2009, 3:59pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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First of all, thanks to the very kind soul who gave this thread some gold stars. It's the first time one of my threads has ever been rated so I'll have to work even harder now to pull this image off. Talking of which, here is the latest update. Doesn't look like a lot has been added but most of the time has been spent implementing TomG's suggestions about the lights and then subsequently adjusting a lot of the textures to tone them down to match the new settings. It's been a lot of work but I think it has been worth it. the changes are very subtle, but I guess when you do this type of image that's what makes all the difference.
I've posted them side by side for easier comparison but must admit, scaled down you loose a fair degree of the change. And why is it that when you reduce the size of an image it always seems darker? Is this true with everybody or is it the way PSP reduces the image?
Anyhow, what do you think? Better, still need some adjustments. Or perhaps a touch too dark? |
Post by robert // Feb 3, 2009, 4:04pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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The lessening of the contrast, and slight tone shift makes it look like it is more overcast than the previous version.
I think it looks more believable/realistic.
Nice trick with the bridge by the way, cutting the road off like that. :) |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 3, 2009, 4:33pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks very much robert, I'm glad/relieved that you think the extra work has payed off. I've still to implement marcel's suggestion about the fog as at the moment I want to see the discrepency between 3d and 2D so as I can best disguise it. I will be adding the fog for the final version though.
Reference the bridge, lol. yeah, one of my more inspiring moments I have to admit. :D |
Post by TomG // Feb 3, 2009, 5:09pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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On scaling an image down I do sometimes have to make it brighter, and sometimes also reduce saturation too. I've never explored the reason why that might be, but it may give you some relief to hear that it is not just you (or your particular software) that gives that effect.
My guess is that it's a loss of range across the image, now there are less pixels to contain the range of light and dark, and range of colors, but I could well be wrong. Perhaps its the merging algorithm that blends multiple pixels into one, the process might favor dark elements over light.
If anyone knows, I'd be interested :)
And yep, neat trick with the bridge, smart thinking! Looks great too, doesn't just look like its added to hide something. Still waiting to see what the strange discovery will be of course!
Tom |
Post by kena // Feb 3, 2009, 8:33pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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First of all, thanks to the very kind soul who gave this thread some gold stars. :o you are welcome.
I felt that this thread has some very good pointers on modeling and perspective, so thought it deserved some attention. |
Post by marcel // Feb 5, 2009, 1:14pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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On scaling an image down I do sometimes have to make it brighter, and sometimes also reduce saturation too. I've never explored the reason why that might be, but it may give you some relief to hear that it is not just you (or your particular software) that gives that effect.
My guess is that it's a loss of range across the image, now there are less pixels to contain the range of light and dark, and range of colors, but I could well be wrong. Perhaps its the merging algorithm that blends multiple pixels into one, the process might favor dark elements over light.
If anyone knows, I'd be interested :)
Tom
If you have a white pixel and a black pixel you have a grey 50% but in fact, pixels of the screen do not touch and the space between 2 white spots is filled by a halo of light.
2 white pixels create more 2 times of light than one white pixel. The picture seems clearer when she is bigger.
It depend of the quality of the screen (not the distance between the center of 2 pixels but the distance between the edges of the pixels, more this distance is big, more the picture seems clearer ). |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 5, 2009, 5:49pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Wow! There really is some fantastic bits of information coming out on this thread and on a whole range of issues too. It makes great reading - thanks very much everybody. :)
Here is the latest update which has mainly centred around getting the bridge to blend in a bit more with its surroundings. Almost done with all the background stuff and so hopefully I will be able to get started on the centre piece real soon. |
Post by marcel // Feb 5, 2009, 11:28pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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With the road under the bridge, you can see now how it was important to placing the horizon at the right height. All seems OK for now. Just a little more contrast for the final rendering and it will be perfect. :) |
Post by marcel // Feb 5, 2009, 11:34pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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An other way is to create a mask on photoshop. You can have more contrast at the bottom of the picture (where the objets are near) and no change on the upper half of the image. This will give more depth. |
Post by Nez // Feb 5, 2009, 11:45pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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As I recall, Breech was considering adding a touch of fog, which might also help the contrast issue.
He could also possibly consider using a ZRender depth-render to create that mask you're talking about...?
Looking good Breech, I can see you've sorted out the interface of the bridge with the trees; I hope the bus on the bridge is a single-decker - if it's a double decker than it should be more visible above the bridge parapet...;)
The spacing of the street lamps heading off down the road seems a bit close to my mind, would expect them to be slightly more spread perhaps? |
Post by robert // Feb 6, 2009, 1:15pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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...The spacing of the street lamps heading off down the road seems a bit close to my mind, would expect them to be slightly more spread perhaps?
Yeah, taking out every other lamp would be good.
The bus does look double, but not quite lined up right with the bridge.
Usually the sides are only a meter high or so. |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 7, 2009, 2:05pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Lol! When I first added all the street lamps, I quickly realised that there were waaaaaay too many, especially as they more-or-less aligned themselves with the camera and appeared as almost a solid block. So I took out every other lamp and made the remainder diagonally opposed. The result of that change was the image I posted. Despite that, it appears the concensus is to remove the same amount again. Mmm. I'm now kinda wondering if the lamps are in fact too many or it just appears that way because you get no idea of scale as the road recedes. There will be an additional story line element added to that road (you didn't think it was there for decoration did you?) so I will see if that makes any difference before I delete any more lamps.
As for the bus, it is a single decker, but the model I'm using is of a European design and thus somewhat taller than the type normally familiar in the UK. I think I will need to tweak the scale slightly and perhaps the transparency settings of the glass.
I'm really looking forward to doing some post work on this one. Mainly because to date I have never really carried out any post work on my images and I'm eager to try some of the many suggestions. And of course, there is still soooooo much to do on this I'll be glad when it's at the post stage as that will mean it is nearly finished.
Thanks again for all the C & C guys, much appreciated as always. |
Post by robert // Feb 7, 2009, 6:19pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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...Mmm. I'm now kinda wondering if the lamps are in fact too many or it just appears that way because you get no idea of scale as the road recedes...
I think you may be right, about how many meters apart are they. In real life they seem to be about 15-20 meters or so. Maybe a little farther.:rolleyes::D |
Post by marcel // Feb 8, 2009, 12:41am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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maybe that will help you. :)
3d model free of the house
http://www.greatbuildings.com/models/Ennis_House_mod.html
and pictures in a zip. |
Post by marcel // Feb 8, 2009, 12:45am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Oups, sorry, it was for Jayr ! :( |
Post by tahnoak // Feb 8, 2009, 4:26am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Breech....
The only other thing that I think looks a little off is the stance of the policemen with the drawn weapons. I am no expert by any means but I have seen enough television :D to believe that they might be crouched down a little more and their body turned with more weight shifted to their front foot.
Then again, this is coming from someone who can't model what I am saying you should do so take it with a couple grains of salt :o |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 8, 2009, 8:52pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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I think you may be right, about how many meters apart are they. In real life they seem to be about 15-20 meters or so. Maybe a little farther.:rolleyes::D
12 Metres, so perhaps I might just have to spread them all out a bit more...groan.:(
maybe that will help you.
3d model free of the house...Oups, sorry, it was for Jayr!
Lol - no problemo marcel. Phew you had me going for a minute there.
The only other thing that I think looks a little off is the stance of the policemen with the drawn weapons...
Ahh, I was wondering when this would come up.:) Importing ultra realistic police figures already morphed in motion captured SWAT stances via Poser 7 and the LUUV plug-in would be just a matter of a few mouse clicks. However, the emphasis of the whole Strange Discoveries series is suppose to be the humour, although how funny they will actually be I've no idea. Therefore, as some of the scenes in the series may portray quite violent themes (just wait to you see the next one I have in mind), combined with what some may call a fairly realistic style, I made a conscious decision not to make the people too realistic. So, hopefully that will explain why all the policemen are quite low key compared to the detail level of their surroundings.
Anyhows, here is the latest update. I fiddled with the (single decker :p) bus a bit more, changed the shader on the lamp-post as the rendering time is slowly starting to escalate, added all the background visible down the road leading to the background and blocked off the right-hand side with a News agency. Ooh and added a couple park benches as well. |
Post by marcel // Feb 8, 2009, 10:05pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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It is better each day. I think the shadows under the cars is too light. And it lacks a future fighter on the sky :D |
Post by Finis // Feb 9, 2009, 6:12am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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The side walk tile texture is too repetitive. Will there be lines for parking spaces? Vertical lines are visible in the bricks of the pedestal. Texture not seamless? Pedestal faceted?
From curiosity, I see that the road out under the bridge and the parking lot is made of blocks. Is that the typical road construction at the scene's location? Where is that and what is the road made of? That would be asphalt here except some intersections are concrete so they don't buckle from heat expansion. |
Post by Nez // Feb 9, 2009, 6:43am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well we do get quite a bit of concrete road construction in the UK, particularly on roads in some housing estates (and also some motorways) but tarmac/asphalt is still usually preferred - and would normally have road markings either way... |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 9, 2009, 4:06pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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It is better each day. I think the shadows under the cars is too light. And it lacks a future fighter on the sky :D
Thanks Marcel. A tweak of the contrast should hopefully sort out the light shadows. As for a FF, great idea. I'll just put King Kong on top of the pedastal and bring on the FF's. :D
The side walk tile texture is too repetitive. Will there be lines for parking spaces? Vertical lines are visible in the bricks of the pedestal. Texture not seamless? Pedestal faceted?
There are grunge textures multilayered on to all the repetitive textures in order to disguise that fact. Perhaps they need a finer balance now the light setings have been finally sorted. As for road markings (and the side walk textures really) I'm not going to bother as they probably wont be visable come the final image.
From curiosity, I see that the road out under the bridge and the parking lot is made of blocks. Is that the typical road construction at the scene's location? Where is that and what is the road made of? That would be asphalt here except some intersections are concrete so they don't buckle from heat expansion.
The UK government experimented with concrete roads in the late 60's to try and save money on motorway maintainence. However, they ended up being forced to pay out millions in compensation to local redidents when the nature of the material caused the noise levels to rise drastically. Those roads are now nearing the end of their life and are slowly being replaced. But as Nez stated, especially in the more rundown areas of the UK, they are still quite a common site. This scene is not based on an actual location other than the one I have in my head. :) |
Post by tahnoak // Feb 15, 2009, 1:28am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I want to see that incredible mop bucket get more air time than in just the original scene too :D
Breech...truly this is an incredible piece of work and now I see why you did not go for too much realism in the police, though one might argue that by putting the police in an "ultra realistic pose" to face what may be an insanely humorous situation might add even more to the humor. Nothing like a couple of snipers staring down the scope at a clown holding a rubber chicken over his head :) |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 16, 2009, 8:17am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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I want to see that incredible mop bucket get more air time than in just the original scene too :D
Lol. Perhaps it should be a bit like Alfred Hitchcock and appear in every scene.
Anyhow, thanks for the kind comments tahnoak. Although I haven't posted in a while, rest assured the work is still progressing; mainly adding all the niff naff and trivia to bring it up to the quality level of the Bank Vault scene. Here are a few latest piccies. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 16, 2009, 9:11am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Your attention to detail is fantastic but you forgot one...:D |
Post by marcel // Feb 16, 2009, 1:24pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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This lack of papers on the floor. it is too clean. :D |
Post by Nez // Feb 17, 2009, 5:14am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Nice detailing Breech. A funny one would have been for the police car's tax disc being expired... ;)
The newsagent looks great but the place is a bit clean looking as Marcel says - though litter can be a massive undertaking... |
Post by marcel // Feb 17, 2009, 8:59am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Nice detailing Breech. A funny one would have been for the police car's tax disc being expired... ;)
The newsagent looks great but the place is a bit clean looking as Marcel says - though litter can be a massive undertaking...
gutter, sewage, oil stain on the road.... |
Post by Breech Block // Feb 17, 2009, 11:19am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Thanks once again for all the comments guys.
Your attention to detail is fantastic but you forgot one...:D
Ha ha! Nice one Steinie. I think I'll make that a permanent feature.
Nice detailing Breech. A funny one would have been for the police car's tax disc being expired...
Lol...but by the time I get this image finished it probably will be. :D
gutter, sewage, oil stain on the road....it is too clean.
There is quite a bit of rubbish in the scene already, but I'm afraid I can't show you those areas yet as it is all part of the big reveal. ;) |
Post by robert // Feb 17, 2009, 1:17pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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I like how you put the road signs up where they should be, and the stuff in the shop windows and stuff, pretty neat. |
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