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Aug 9, 2002, 4:48pm

What if there was a special activate that when somebody clicked (maybe they
could be specified as allowed).... what happened next could be seen by
everyone... it would be a simple thing to do

Aug 9, 2002, 4:50pm

A bot can do that for now. Until AW's programmers feel like adding those
kind of features in. I think the world owner would have to chose if he
wanted other people to see the things move when activated or bumped by
others.

--Bowen--

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Aug 9, 2002, 6:19pm

DUH! Why do you think i suggested it? It is stuped! Well.. tell me this..
how do I do a prison cell, without a bot that opens under my command for
everybody to see? :D
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Aug 9, 2002, 6:22pm

> DUH! Why do you think i suggested it? It is stuped! Well.. tell me this..
> how do I do a prison cell, without a bot that opens under my command for
> everybody to see? :D

Well, with a bot you'd need to change the Command field of an object to
"create move 0 0 1" or something to that sort. Everyone will see it move as
soon as it's changed.

--Bowen--

Aug 10, 2002, 4:06pm

The point I am getting at is that what if you cant get anyone to host a bot
for you?

:D


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Aug 10, 2002, 4:47pm

[View Quote] That could be a serious pickle, you could always host it yourself though (or
whoever hosts the world?). The other alternative is to only do it when
you're on.

--Bowen--

Aug 10, 2002, 6:26pm

But doesn't it get annoying how the bot sometimes lags when you click a
button and nothing happens till a few seconds afterwards? Then, when people
notice nothing's happening they click the button faster which makes the bot
lag even more for people who are trying to use a different button..... heh,
I'm telling this out of personal experience


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Aug 10, 2002, 6:47pm

> But doesn't it get annoying how the bot sometimes lags when you click a
> button and nothing happens till a few seconds afterwards? Then, when
people
> notice nothing's happening they click the button faster which makes the
bot
> lag even more for people who are trying to use a different button.....
heh,
> I'm telling this out of personal experience

Probably a nasty slow VB bot causing that problem. Otherwise you'd have to
be on a 14.4 using AOL to notice anything that bad.

--Bowen--

Aug 10, 2002, 7:05pm

Eh, you're probably right... But it would be nice to have an activate thing
so noone would have to waste a precious bot slot on a bot that just makes
stuff move...

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Aug 10, 2002, 7:09pm

What is it with you? Even a poorly written function on a VB bot isn't going
to lag on an event. The only issue here that the update has to be
communicated to, passed through and distributed from the world server twice.
What a loser comment! Have you ever tried profiling a VB bot? It takes
milliseconds in the code before it chucks the response back out to the SDK.
This is such a narrow minded, "don't know shit", kid-dominated community now
that I really ain't going to miss it.

As for the original idea, there's no obvious reason why the world server
can't distribute the object click events and the browser handle them under
some command control, especially now that the event get triggered to bots
even when there's an activate command on the object. For a good interactive
experience with a bot, it needs to be hosted appropriately which they rarely
are. It would benefit immensely if the transition of the event was improved,
but that's out of our hands.


[View Quote]

Aug 10, 2002, 7:31pm

> What is it with you? Even a poorly written function on a VB bot isn't
going
> to lag on an event. The only issue here that the update has to be
> communicated to, passed through and distributed from the world server
twice.
> What a loser comment! Have you ever tried profiling a VB bot? It takes
> milliseconds in the code before it chucks the response back out to the
SDK.
> This is such a narrow minded, "don't know shit", kid-dominated community
now
> that I really ain't going to miss it.

Someone's defensive on VB. Most people that program VB aren't experts,
realize that. They're just people who need to make something quick, and
when you make something quick it's going to be crappy.

Therefore it's going to be slow compared to the same "quick" anything else
programed in app just the way it's handled by windows. Who cares if it
takes milliseconds, that's still time, and for C++ apps it might take
microseconds.

I'm not sure I'll miss some of the people here either.

"Nasty slow VB bot," includes but is not limited to, the programmer, the
sloppy code, and the computer it's hosted on. If you host a VB bot on a 66
mhz machine and benchmark it with a C++ of equal design it's still going to
be much slower. Then there's the bad designs and bad programmers that just
do things quickly without optimization. Again that's going to slow things
down too compared to a same badly designed C++ app.

But I'm sure since you're the expert you'll correct me on that. I'm just a
guy who doesn't do it professionally so of course it's all wrong. I'm just
a hobbyist, that means I know nothing compared to people who program VB for
companies that are too stupid and just want programs quick and inexpensively
created.

And YES VB apps are slower than C\C++ apps. Even if it's by the most
minuscule difference. No matter what you say, no matter what you do that's
always true. I was also told by a couple of hardcore VB programmers that
this is exactly true. I quote what one said "Yes, unless that C++ app is do
ing something really freaky." It's the same exact comparison as ASM is to
C\C++. I wish these "experts" would realize that. I expect more crap from
all our VB experts in here, so that's why I'm just going to filter them out
if they reply and add in "oh it is much faster than C++ in all cases."

> As for the original idea, there's no obvious reason why the world server
> can't distribute the object click events and the browser handle them under
> some command control, especially now that the event get triggered to bots
> even when there's an activate command on the object. For a good
interactive
> experience with a bot, it needs to be hosted appropriately which they
rarely
> are. It would benefit immensely if the transition of the event was
improved,
> but that's out of our hands.

You're right, there isn't. I don't think the programmers are going to do it
either nor is it number one on their list of things to do.

--Bowen--

Aug 10, 2002, 8:21pm

"bowen" <thisguyisashimmyritzer at 7k2.4mg.com> wrote in
news:3d558620$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Someone's defensive on VB. Most people that program VB aren't
> experts, realize that. They're just people who need to make something
> quick, and when you make something quick it's going to be crappy.

Well as a recognised by all 'basic hater' (which i am not) i tend to
agree with you. Anyway, sloppy written C/C++ code will outperform sloppy
written VB code for very simple and obvious reasons. VB code can be very
dirty easily, however to write very dirty code in c/c++ without getting
your ass kicked already at compiletime is a real effort.

Also, to write an optimizer for vb taxes even the most brilliant of
minds. To trust MS to write an efficient interpreter is way past
gullability (MS doesn't pay for well written code but for quick
turnover, how else do they make money but to underpay graduates) So any
language written by MS (which they didn't buy up and slowly strangle)
must by definition turn out to be crap in the long run.

IMHO to put your mind to writing to any MS specific language standard is
asking for it in the form of getting stuck to them and their improbable
licensing idea's.

> = very rudely shaken to reality since MS came on the scene

Aug 10, 2002, 9:44pm

I won't get into silly discussions like VB vs. C++ vs. Delphi or Windows vs. *nix vs. Mac; been there, done that years ago. It's equally simple to write sloppy code in any language or platform and sloppy code is sloppy code. Compilers check the syntax, not the algorithms and that's where the programmer can mess up or make the code fly. Blaming a language is like blaming a knife for the murder. A piece of advice for the younger, take it or leave it; code in the language you prefer but don't be a "one trick pony", most likely you'll have a really hard time when you get out in the job market.

-Baron


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Aug 10, 2002, 9:49pm

You don't see it do you? Its not about being defensive about VB, its trying
to level the playing field against brain-dead idiots that just splurt
popularist crap based on what they've heard. Just because you can have poor
experiences with VB doesn't make it (a) slow, (b) crap or (c) an
inappropriate platform. I'm fortunate enough to be able to speak from a
position of experience in a number of areas and I have a balanced view of
it. If people could get some perspective on this there'd be no problem.

There's no competition, there's no issues. We're talking about writing
something that interfaces to a frikkin toy at the end of the day. There's no
need to get all bitchy and high handed about one specific language as seems
to be the popular approach. What gets my f**king goat is the blind ignorance
and arrogance of people in talking like they do when in truth they don't
have the discipline even to understand the issues involved. 90% of the VB
code posted in here in the past shows the classic hallmarks of just "diving
in", in which case people have no right to complain. Try that with C++ and
you get nowhere, and yet there seems no comparable concept of learning the
language before using VB. Lazy people write crap code and there are plenty
of those here. If you can use the technologies appropriately and in tandem
you get the best of both worlds. Where's the competition? Where's the issue?

Trying to keep to the point at least a little bit, when you're talking about
often a second before the event is even registered in the SDK, milliseconds
and microseconds are irrelevant. This is the perspective ... its not the
cause of lag in a bot. The lag is in the poor delivery times for the events.
The comment I don't understand is "they click the button faster which makes
the bot lag even more". Sounds more like a cell phone connection to me.

[View Quote]

Aug 10, 2002, 10:42pm

Um... I wasn't necessarily talking about VB heh... I was saying that bots
like prestons and xelagots and other sorts of bots like those lag... Sorry
for causing this whole mess :\

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Aug 11, 2002, 4:21am

Don't worry, arguments/debates/whateveryouwanttocallthem explode all the
time in here...

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
A message from Zeo Toxion
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

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Aug 11, 2002, 10:05am

I agree with grimble :D

Although it does lag when I forgot to take

Do
Doevents
Loop until thefatladyissinging = 1

out of form_load

:D
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Aug 12, 2002, 12:53pm

ignorance is bliss hey Bowen?

LOL

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Aug 12, 2002, 2:15pm

> ignorance is bliss hey Bowen?
>
> LOL

Yeah it is, but in this case it's the truth. It's like comparing languages
ASM < C\C++ < VB. No way VB could compare to ASM or C\C++ for that matter.
Now anymore and all the VB kiddies will hit my filter list. I've already
filtered two.

Aug 12, 2002, 3:15pm

I was speaking of YOUR ignorance.....you might wanna mellow out before the word gets out to everyone!



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Aug 12, 2002, 3:55pm

CT Rights, world_eject_rights = "*"
CT Rights, world_eject_rights = whatever_it_was_before

And no, I dont have a clue if its the right constants cause I was too busy in C++ to look :)

- Mark

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Aug 12, 2002, 5:44pm

> I was speaking of YOUR ignorance.....you might wanna mellow out before the
word gets out to everyone!

Ignorance is as ignorance does, who gives a crap?

Nov 16, 2002, 5:12am

I've made many similar suggestions over the years. There are quite a few ways that such a thing could be done. For example, one way would be to add the word "shared" as a pre-trigger keyword. This would allow simple changes like...

activate visible off
to...
shared activate visible off

to make their shared expreience counterpart. Of course, there are many possible complications with such an implementation also, such as what happens when someone else's AW browser communicates to your AW browser that they have just clicked on an object which is not currently in your view?

TechnoZeus

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