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Vandalism and the Dying off of AW (Community)
Vandalism and the Dying off of AW // Community
Feb 12, 2003, 5:53pm
good ideas but tourists still need free reign as we all know its tourists
AND cits as tourists so it cant be stopped just cleaned up in a timely
fashion
[View Quote]"rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e4a9ec4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Ill begin by starting on the vandalism, while I had the small interest of
CT
> builder for A!!CT my colleagues and I also came across these people who
are
> vandalizing, yes they are cits, their citnumber not sure, name, no idea,
> but the fact is they are using a process of masking their IP address to
> avoid the banning via this method, in addition this "masking" effect also
> disguises their Computer ID, so you cannot ban them that way either.
>
> Now, the "persons", 2 of them do also come in under tourist ID's and
delete
> tourist builds and place rather lame porn around the area (small things
> amuse small minds), now with this in mind, while we as Moderators and rule
> abiding citizens and tourists do our best to minimize the effect of such
> events, they will continue to happen until AW or one of you networking
> engineers out there, can work out how to gain the real ip of the offenders
> through its mask. I've consulted several network engineers including my
> college teachers, whom also do not know how the IP is masked outside the
IP
> range of the persons ISP.
>
> This , while unfortunate will continue until we can collectively work out
an
> idea of how to stop it, now while peer pressure might seem the best
solution
> by some to this problem, it would also be fruitless Id fear as the more
you
> provoke these people the more it will continue. I would suggest that we
> simply ignore these events, clean the mess made, reinstall the tourist
> builds deleted and just keep at it, these kids will grow bored of doing it
> eventually, then we can get on with our interests.
>
> As for the state AW's is in, its becoming very disheartening, I've been on
> for well over a year now and seen it slowly dying off. This didn't bother
me
> so much when all I did was build, but once I assumed the role of Caretaker
> for A!!CT you really begin to notice the full effect of no one being
around,
> and very much notice the populace of other worlds.
>
> I agree with a previous Post about why is AW working on a New3.4 when the
> old one can hardly stay alive, and considering the amount of bad feedback
> I've been getting from the beta testers, I fear the end is nigh. I'm one
who
> comes to build, the social interaction is a distant second, but why bother
> building if no ones there to see it. I had the privilege of location
> building, meaning inside the p20 of A!!CT and I was able to have my builds
> seen, however, we are all not as lucky, we endeavored to place teleports
to
> builds but still, the best intentions are worthless if they are un-used.
>
> Awgate is a sad depressing place to see also, and personally, when I first
> arrived, found the continuous scrolling of "advice" by the "gk's" to be
> excessively confusing and when I asked the GK on duty at the time (who
will
> remain nameless) if I could get a list of instructions, she began
scrolling
> again, when I asked for a URL, I was responded to by ,"What's a URL?".
After
> pulling my hair out trying to learn the AW Browser I still found it
> difficult to find immediate help so I could learn at a faster rate.
>
> Tourists arrive at Awgate, new, fresh keen to have a look around, click on
> things, maybe build their first little masterpiece, they want help, and
its
> not available without it being forced down their throats by a GK why is
> going insane with the mouse button. Awgate needs to be revamped, new
ideas,
> freshen the place up, make it something worth looking at, not a place you
> cant wait to leave. Place instructions at Awgate itself, off in a corner
> somewhere where signs can inform a newbie tourist where to find immediate
> help, have a GK there, who is assigned to specifically help tourists in
the
> orientation area. This area should be out of range from GZ, so it
minimizes
> the confusion to the newbies. AW cannot rely on people being amazed at
> seeing 3d avatars, because alot of us have seen them before, there nothing
> new about them, but the AW building aspects and atmosphere is new, its
good,
> but the management of AwGate specifically is poor and a major downer for
the
> whole experience of being in AW. (*I will say that some Gk's at Awgate are
> good and do try very hard, for which I'm sure we are all grateful, its
just
> a few bad bananas spoil the whole bunch*)
>
> AW is home, in more ways than one to a few of us, I've seen just about
every
> world in AW at one time or another some good, some bad, some bloody ugly,
> but to those who built them, have stayed up endless nights by the glow of
> our monitor, they are OUR masterpieces, they are something we sit back and
> can say, I built that, and I'm bloody well proud of it. While we, the
> citizens and tourists are the lifeblood of AW, we DO try our hardest to
> bring new objects to our respective OP's we do try to find new ways to
bring
> in tourists, to find a niche that will set the world we call our home
apart
> from the others, but it will continue to remain a fruitless mission if AW
> doesn't pick its heels up. To JP and Rick, we do love this product you
have
> made for us to use and enjoy, but it needs some serious overhauling to
bring
> life back into it, New3.4 is not the solution, personally, I'm not
> interested in what New3.4 might or might not bring. Your solution is in
the
> presentation, show newbies that yeah, AW looks like a really nice place to
> kill my Sunday afternoon off, because ALL of us who have been here for a
> prolonged period of time, know full well its addictive qualities, this is
> what makes AW unique, but its let down by its Entrance Point ( AWgate),
its
> let down by its newbie help, its let down by callus fools who have found
> the flaw in the AW browsers ability to see through a masked IP and the
fools
> who deliberately destroy tourist builds..
>
> The few of us who have remained loyal supporters or AW are losing a
> proportional interest in this place, I personally don't want to bring
> newbies here, because I know hey will more than likely lose interest and
Ill
> have wasted several hours teaching them how to build etc, and I know on
this
> point, I'm not alone.
>
> Solutions......
>
> Put New3.4 on hold, fix what's existing
> Update AwGate and review re-screen Gk's, perhaps even run a survey on
> opinions of the GK on duty, time log them whatever and cross reference.
> Build a Newbie Orientation area at AWgate away from listening range of GZ
> and appoint respected cits to the position, atleast a signed area to help.
> Keep AW locked away from tourists ( Only for the reason it effects
privately
> owned worlds, whom pay substantial amounts of money for the privilege)
>
> For the worlds owned by AW that do allow tourists, such as AWTeen etc,
start
> some kind of back up system for the world, so in the event of wide spread
> vandalism, the world can be restored to the pre-vandalized state.
>
> These are just a couple of ideas that I think might help, but the main
> source of advertising AW relies on, is you and I, the dedicated supporters
> telling our friends, well , AW make it worth talking about and you will
find
> that within a few months, we can ALL collectively get AW back to a place
to
> be proud of.
>
> I have attached a few screenshots of my Builds for those whom have not
been
> to A!!CT lately, I haven't included a screenshot of A!!CT GZ Tower I built
> (*with some assistance from Defiance*), its something that should be seen
> first hand =). Other builds of mine in A!!CT include the Bot Center (not
> shown)
>
> For those who do know me from A!!CT, I quit as CT Moderator because of a
few
> select morons (who shall remain nameless) and will remain so until the
> solution is rectified. So all the new things I was planning on introducing
> will remain on hold. Whitestar introduced the VoiceChat which we both had
> been working on, but other than that, he will not be introducing any more
of
> my plans until I give him permission.
>
> On a final note, I have appreciated the feedback from all tourists,
citizens
> and moderators regarding my builds in A!!CT, however, due to the current
> circumstances I will not be building anything new for A!!CT, I will remain
> as an Advisor to Whitestar and Defiance but that's all, until , like I
said,
> the situation is rectified. I'm also not currently accepting invitations
to
> build in other worlds, or for specific games etc, I do however thank all
> those people who have asked my assistance or advise over the past several
> months.
>
> If AW Management requests my assistance, I'm willing to make some kind of
> arrangement.
>
> I can be contacted at - rowey22 at hotmail.com
>
> Thanks for your Time..
> Happy Buildin' and lets not have AW Die completely
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
Feb 12, 2003, 10:49pm
Since you arent aware of how AW handles the computers "ID" and IP, I wouldnt
start talking about it as if you build the damn thing. First off, the
computer "ID" is just part of the computers MAC address, which is non
existant for dialup users. Also, these dialup users get new IP addresses
every time they connect to the internet. So, no static IP, and no MAC,
means no ban. Also, dont post a ton of pictures.
-Joe
[View Quote]"rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e4a9ec4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Ill begin by starting on the vandalism, while I had the small interest of
CT
> builder for A!!CT my colleagues and I also came across these people who
are
> vandalizing, yes they are cits, their citnumber not sure, name, no idea,
> but the fact is they are using a process of masking their IP address to
> avoid the banning via this method, in addition this "masking" effect also
> disguises their Computer ID, so you cannot ban them that way either.
>
> Now, the "persons", 2 of them do also come in under tourist ID's and
delete
> tourist builds and place rather lame porn around the area (small things
> amuse small minds), now with this in mind, while we as Moderators and rule
> abiding citizens and tourists do our best to minimize the effect of such
> events, they will continue to happen until AW or one of you networking
> engineers out there, can work out how to gain the real ip of the offenders
> through its mask. I've consulted several network engineers including my
> college teachers, whom also do not know how the IP is masked outside the
IP
> range of the persons ISP.
>
> This , while unfortunate will continue until we can collectively work out
an
> idea of how to stop it, now while peer pressure might seem the best
solution
> by some to this problem, it would also be fruitless Id fear as the more
you
> provoke these people the more it will continue. I would suggest that we
> simply ignore these events, clean the mess made, reinstall the tourist
> builds deleted and just keep at it, these kids will grow bored of doing it
> eventually, then we can get on with our interests.
>
> As for the state AW's is in, its becoming very disheartening, I've been on
> for well over a year now and seen it slowly dying off. This didn't bother
me
> so much when all I did was build, but once I assumed the role of Caretaker
> for A!!CT you really begin to notice the full effect of no one being
around,
> and very much notice the populace of other worlds.
>
> I agree with a previous Post about why is AW working on a New3.4 when the
> old one can hardly stay alive, and considering the amount of bad feedback
> I've been getting from the beta testers, I fear the end is nigh. I'm one
who
> comes to build, the social interaction is a distant second, but why bother
> building if no ones there to see it. I had the privilege of location
> building, meaning inside the p20 of A!!CT and I was able to have my builds
> seen, however, we are all not as lucky, we endeavored to place teleports
to
> builds but still, the best intentions are worthless if they are un-used.
>
> Awgate is a sad depressing place to see also, and personally, when I first
> arrived, found the continuous scrolling of "advice" by the "gk's" to be
> excessively confusing and when I asked the GK on duty at the time (who
will
> remain nameless) if I could get a list of instructions, she began
scrolling
> again, when I asked for a URL, I was responded to by ,"What's a URL?".
After
> pulling my hair out trying to learn the AW Browser I still found it
> difficult to find immediate help so I could learn at a faster rate.
>
> Tourists arrive at Awgate, new, fresh keen to have a look around, click on
> things, maybe build their first little masterpiece, they want help, and
its
> not available without it being forced down their throats by a GK why is
> going insane with the mouse button. Awgate needs to be revamped, new
ideas,
> freshen the place up, make it something worth looking at, not a place you
> cant wait to leave. Place instructions at Awgate itself, off in a corner
> somewhere where signs can inform a newbie tourist where to find immediate
> help, have a GK there, who is assigned to specifically help tourists in
the
> orientation area. This area should be out of range from GZ, so it
minimizes
> the confusion to the newbies. AW cannot rely on people being amazed at
> seeing 3d avatars, because alot of us have seen them before, there nothing
> new about them, but the AW building aspects and atmosphere is new, its
good,
> but the management of AwGate specifically is poor and a major downer for
the
> whole experience of being in AW. (*I will say that some Gk's at Awgate are
> good and do try very hard, for which I'm sure we are all grateful, its
just
> a few bad bananas spoil the whole bunch*)
>
> AW is home, in more ways than one to a few of us, I've seen just about
every
> world in AW at one time or another some good, some bad, some bloody ugly,
> but to those who built them, have stayed up endless nights by the glow of
> our monitor, they are OUR masterpieces, they are something we sit back and
> can say, I built that, and I'm bloody well proud of it. While we, the
> citizens and tourists are the lifeblood of AW, we DO try our hardest to
> bring new objects to our respective OP's we do try to find new ways to
bring
> in tourists, to find a niche that will set the world we call our home
apart
> from the others, but it will continue to remain a fruitless mission if AW
> doesn't pick its heels up. To JP and Rick, we do love this product you
have
> made for us to use and enjoy, but it needs some serious overhauling to
bring
> life back into it, New3.4 is not the solution, personally, I'm not
> interested in what New3.4 might or might not bring. Your solution is in
the
> presentation, show newbies that yeah, AW looks like a really nice place to
> kill my Sunday afternoon off, because ALL of us who have been here for a
> prolonged period of time, know full well its addictive qualities, this is
> what makes AW unique, but its let down by its Entrance Point ( AWgate),
its
> let down by its newbie help, its let down by callus fools who have found
> the flaw in the AW browsers ability to see through a masked IP and the
fools
> who deliberately destroy tourist builds..
>
> The few of us who have remained loyal supporters or AW are losing a
> proportional interest in this place, I personally don't want to bring
> newbies here, because I know hey will more than likely lose interest and
Ill
> have wasted several hours teaching them how to build etc, and I know on
this
> point, I'm not alone.
>
> Solutions......
>
> Put New3.4 on hold, fix what's existing
> Update AwGate and review re-screen Gk's, perhaps even run a survey on
> opinions of the GK on duty, time log them whatever and cross reference.
> Build a Newbie Orientation area at AWgate away from listening range of GZ
> and appoint respected cits to the position, atleast a signed area to help.
> Keep AW locked away from tourists ( Only for the reason it effects
privately
> owned worlds, whom pay substantial amounts of money for the privilege)
>
> For the worlds owned by AW that do allow tourists, such as AWTeen etc,
start
> some kind of back up system for the world, so in the event of wide spread
> vandalism, the world can be restored to the pre-vandalized state.
>
> These are just a couple of ideas that I think might help, but the main
> source of advertising AW relies on, is you and I, the dedicated supporters
> telling our friends, well , AW make it worth talking about and you will
find
> that within a few months, we can ALL collectively get AW back to a place
to
> be proud of.
>
> I have attached a few screenshots of my Builds for those whom have not
been
> to A!!CT lately, I haven't included a screenshot of A!!CT GZ Tower I built
> (*with some assistance from Defiance*), its something that should be seen
> first hand =). Other builds of mine in A!!CT include the Bot Center (not
> shown)
>
> For those who do know me from A!!CT, I quit as CT Moderator because of a
few
> select morons (who shall remain nameless) and will remain so until the
> solution is rectified. So all the new things I was planning on introducing
> will remain on hold. Whitestar introduced the VoiceChat which we both had
> been working on, but other than that, he will not be introducing any more
of
> my plans until I give him permission.
>
> On a final note, I have appreciated the feedback from all tourists,
citizens
> and moderators regarding my builds in A!!CT, however, due to the current
> circumstances I will not be building anything new for A!!CT, I will remain
> as an Advisor to Whitestar and Defiance but that's all, until , like I
said,
> the situation is rectified. I'm also not currently accepting invitations
to
> build in other worlds, or for specific games etc, I do however thank all
> those people who have asked my assistance or advise over the past several
> months.
>
> If AW Management requests my assistance, I'm willing to make some kind of
> arrangement.
>
> I can be contacted at - rowey22 at hotmail.com
>
> Thanks for your Time..
> Happy Buildin' and lets not have AW Die completely
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 5:15am
Perhaps I explained it wrong the first time, so you mis-understood with the
program they use, they can change their ip to well beyond the range of their
isp, Im sure you know what the ranges mean, also, the ip they can use are of
their choice, with this, they can log in using the ip address of any number
and range they choose eg 128.9.1.1 212.0.0.4 whatever they want, except
127.0.0.1 etc Id guess. So dial up does have nothing to do with it, since it
can only change within their isp's range. Its a program they are using. As
for the computer ID, that information is what was told to me by a caretaker,
so yeah.
This message had an attachment, was your choice was to click it. Thanks for
your interest.
[View Quote]"joeman" <joeman at bootdown.com> wrote in message
news:3e4aeb8a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Since you arent aware of how AW handles the computers "ID" and IP, I
wouldnt
> start talking about it as if you build the damn thing. First off, the
> computer "ID" is just part of the computers MAC address, which is non
> existant for dialup users. Also, these dialup users get new IP addresses
> every time they connect to the internet. So, no static IP, and no MAC,
> means no ban. Also, dont post a ton of pictures.
>
> -Joe
>
> "rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4a9ec4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
of
> CT
> are
idea,
also
> delete
rule
offenders
> IP
out
> an
> solution
> you
it
on
bother
> me
Caretaker
> around,
the
feedback
> who
bother
builds
> to
first
> will
> scrolling
> After
on
> its
> ideas,
you
immediate
> the
> minimizes
nothing
> good,
> the
are
> just
> every
ugly,
of
and
> bring
> apart
AW
> have
> bring
> the
to
is
> its
found
> fools
> Ill
> this
GZ
help.
> privately
> start
spread
supporters
> find
> to
> been
built
seen
> few
introducing
had
more
> of
> citizens
remain
> said,
> to
several
of
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 8:34am
Inline....
[View Quote]rowey wrote:
> Perhaps I explained it wrong the first time, so you mis-understood with the
> program they use, they can change their ip to well beyond the range of their
> isp, Im sure you know what the ranges mean, also, the ip they can use are of
> their choice, with this, they can log in using the ip address of any number
> and range they choose eg 128.9.1.1 212.0.0.4 whatever they want, except
> 127.0.0.1 etc Id guess. So dial up does have nothing to do with it, since it
> can only change within their isp's range. Its a program they are using.
|
There is no such program which can masquarade the IP address in a communication where it has to receive an answer from the server. It is a bogus rumour! Anyone with a very little knowledge of the TCP protocol will laugh on that idea :)
To get _very_ different IPs is possible through several dialup service where the provider has multiple broad range of IP addresses but you can always track down who is the provider at http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl .
> As for the computer ID, that information is what was told to me by a caretaker,
> so yeah.
.... yeah ...
> This message had an attachment, was your choice was to click it.
Unfortunately the attachments are downloaded when the message is retrieved. Next time post a URL pointing to them somewhere on your website. Thanks.
> Thanks for
> your interest.
>
--
Andras
"It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)
Feb 13, 2003, 9:11am
23:53:38 "Confederate" = ip 212.62.203.74
[View Quote]"andras" <andras at andras.net> wrote in message
news:3e4b74ce at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Inline....
>
> rowey wrote:
the
their
are of
number
except
since it
>
> There is no such program which can masquarade the IP address in a
communication where it has to receive an answer from the server. It is a
bogus rumour! Anyone with a very little knowledge of the TCP protocol will
laugh on that idea :)
> To get _very_ different IPs is possible through several dialup service
where the provider has multiple broad range of IP addresses but you can
always track down who is the provider at http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl
..
>
>
caretaker,
>
> ... yeah ...
>
>
> Unfortunately the attachments are downloaded when the message is
retrieved. Next time post a URL pointing to them somewhere on your website.
Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Andras
> "It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 9:13am
23:53:38 "Confederate" = ip 212.62.203.74
23:56:06 "Confederate" = ip 203.43.5.66
02:24:51 "Confederate" = ip 61.9.8.10
17:38:07 "Confederate" = ip 196.3.101.1
20:23:38 "Confederate" = ip 209.88.8.42
00:31:29 "Confederate" = ip 199.224.74.183
20:30:07 "Confederate" = ip 168.95.19.4
explain this!
[View Quote]"andras" <andras at andras.net> wrote in message
news:3e4b74ce at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Inline....
>
> rowey wrote:
the
their
are of
number
except
since it
>
> There is no such program which can masquarade the IP address in a
communication where it has to receive an answer from the server. It is a
bogus rumour! Anyone with a very little knowledge of the TCP protocol will
laugh on that idea :)
> To get _very_ different IPs is possible through several dialup service
where the provider has multiple broad range of IP addresses but you can
always track down who is the provider at http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl
..
>
>
caretaker,
>
> ... yeah ...
>
>
> Unfortunately the attachments are downloaded when the message is
retrieved. Next time post a URL pointing to them somewhere on your website.
Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Andras
> "It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 2:56pm
h74.racos.com.203.62.212.in-addr.arpa
203.43.5.66
61.9.8.10
196.3.101.1
209.88.8.42
svcr-199-224-74-183.ppp.svcr.epix.net
kh-cs4.hinet.net
Some are dialup connections, some may be proxy servers, I really dont care
to figure out which are which. But, I can tell you he is on dialup, so he
wont have a computer ID. Really, will you *please* know what evidance is
before you pull it out. Your "evidance" just supports my arguement that hes
on dialup. Really, do some reading up on TCP/IP, and trust me when I tell
you how this cant be done with AW, I possiably know more about the
innerworkings of the software than most people here.
-Joe
[View Quote]"defiance" <Defiance at micro$oft.com> wrote in message
news:3e4b7dbd at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> 23:53:38 "Confederate" = ip 212.62.203.74
> 23:56:06 "Confederate" = ip 203.43.5.66
> 02:24:51 "Confederate" = ip 61.9.8.10
> 17:38:07 "Confederate" = ip 196.3.101.1
> 20:23:38 "Confederate" = ip 209.88.8.42
> 00:31:29 "Confederate" = ip 199.224.74.183
> 20:30:07 "Confederate" = ip 168.95.19.4
>
> explain this!
>
>
> "andras" <andras at andras.net> wrote in message
> news:3e4b74ce at server1.Activeworlds.com...
with
> the
> their
> are of
> number
> except
> since it
using.
> communication where it has to receive an answer from the server. It is a
> bogus rumour! Anyone with a very little knowledge of the TCP protocol will
> laugh on that idea :)
> where the provider has multiple broad range of IP addresses but you can
> always track down who is the provider at
http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl
> .
> caretaker,
> retrieved. Next time post a URL pointing to them somewhere on your
website.
> Thanks.
>
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 3:46pm
So what? Tell me a way to successfully ban him or don't reply if you don't
know how.
[View Quote]"joeman" <joeman at bootdown.com> wrote in message
news:3e4bce4e$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> h74.racos.com.203.62.212.in-addr.arpa
> 203.43.5.66
> 61.9.8.10
> 196.3.101.1
> 209.88.8.42
> svcr-199-224-74-183.ppp.svcr.epix.net
> kh-cs4.hinet.net
>
> Some are dialup connections, some may be proxy servers, I really dont care
> to figure out which are which. But, I can tell you he is on dialup, so he
> wont have a computer ID. Really, will you *please* know what evidance is
> before you pull it out. Your "evidance" just supports my arguement that
hes
> on dialup. Really, do some reading up on TCP/IP, and trust me when I tell
> you how this cant be done with AW, I possiably know more about the
> innerworkings of the software than most people here.
>
> -Joe
>
>
> "defiance" <Defiance at micro$oft.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4b7dbd at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> with
of
use
> using.
will
> http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl
a
> website.
>
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 3:58pm
I'll reply....cause it seems you cannot hear what Joeman is saying there IS NO WAY to do it. Not by Joeman not by you not by me....NO WAY. Now maybe you see the problem. AW needs a core re-write in this area.(security)
IMHO
Leo :)
[View Quote]"defiance" <Defiance at micro$oft.com> wrote in message news:3e4bd9ee at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> So what? Tell me a way to successfully ban him or don't reply if you don't
> know how.
>
> "joeman" <joeman at bootdown.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4bce4e$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> hes
> of
> use
> will
> a
>
>
|
Feb 13, 2003, 4:30pm
[View Quote]joeman wrote:
> h74.racos.com.203.62.212.in-addr.arpa -- KVG Internet Services GmbH Konstanz, Germany
> 203.43.5.66 -- Telstra Internet Canberra, AU
> 61.9.8.10 -- MosCom (clients) Salcedo Village, Makati, Philippines
> 196.3.101.1 -- Eduardo Mondlane University, Center for Informatics, University Campus Maputo, Mozambique
> 168.95.19.4 -- Chunghwa Telecom Co., Ltd. Taipei, Taiwan
> 209.88.8.42 -- EMTELCO S.A. Carrera, Bogota
> svcr-199-224-74-183.ppp.svcr.epix.net
> kh-cs4.hinet.net
>
> Some are dialup connections, some may be proxy servers, I really dont care
> to figure out which are which.
|
4 are dialup addresses while the rest is probably proxies or hacked machines (very unlikely someone is using AW in Mozambique, tho it is possible. More likely one of the machines at the university is acting as a proxy.)
But, I can tell you he is on dialup, so he
> wont have a computer ID.
That is not true any longer. Roland changed the way the computer ID calculated and it doesn't depend on the MAC address.
Really, will you *please* know what evidance is
> before you pull it out. Your "evidance" just supports my arguement that hes
> on dialup. Really, do some reading up on TCP/IP, and trust me when I tell
> you how this cant be done with AW, I possiably know more about the
> innerworkings of the software than most people here.
>
> -Joe
agree :)
--
Andras
"It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)
Feb 13, 2003, 11:21pm
The computer ID is the MAC address still... Dont worry. And through
proxies, well, I dont think that'd work because of the new universe
authentication code, but, I havent fooled around with the Proxy or Tunnel
functions of AW.
-Joe
[View Quote]"andras" <andras at andras.net> wrote in message
news:3e4be457$2 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> joeman wrote:
Konstanz, Germany
University Campus Maputo, Mozambique
care
>
> 4 are dialup addresses while the rest is probably proxies or hacked
machines (very unlikely someone is using AW in Mozambique, tho it is
possible. More likely one of the machines at the university is acting as a
proxy.)
>
> But, I can tell you he is on dialup, so he
>
> That is not true any longer. Roland changed the way the computer ID
calculated and it doesn't depend on the MAC address.
>
> Really, will you *please* know what evidance is
hes
tell
>
> agree :)
>
> --
> Andras
> "It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)
>
|
Feb 14, 2003, 3:34am
Try buying a book you lot.
[View Quote]"rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e4a9ec4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Ill begin by starting on the vandalism, while I had the small interest of
CT
> builder for A!!CT my colleagues and I also came across these people who
are
> vandalizing, yes they are cits, their citnumber not sure, name, no idea,
> but the fact is they are using a process of masking their IP address to
> avoid the banning via this method, in addition this "masking" effect also
> disguises their Computer ID, so you cannot ban them that way either.
>
> Now, the "persons", 2 of them do also come in under tourist ID's and
delete
> tourist builds and place rather lame porn around the area (small things
> amuse small minds), now with this in mind, while we as Moderators and rule
> abiding citizens and tourists do our best to minimize the effect of such
> events, they will continue to happen until AW or one of you networking
> engineers out there, can work out how to gain the real ip of the offenders
> through its mask. I've consulted several network engineers including my
> college teachers, whom also do not know how the IP is masked outside the
IP
> range of the persons ISP.
>
> This , while unfortunate will continue until we can collectively work out
an
> idea of how to stop it, now while peer pressure might seem the best
solution
> by some to this problem, it would also be fruitless Id fear as the more
you
> provoke these people the more it will continue. I would suggest that we
> simply ignore these events, clean the mess made, reinstall the tourist
> builds deleted and just keep at it, these kids will grow bored of doing it
> eventually, then we can get on with our interests.
>
> As for the state AW's is in, its becoming very disheartening, I've been on
> for well over a year now and seen it slowly dying off. This didn't bother
me
> so much when all I did was build, but once I assumed the role of Caretaker
> for A!!CT you really begin to notice the full effect of no one being
around,
> and very much notice the populace of other worlds.
>
> I agree with a previous Post about why is AW working on a New3.4 when the
> old one can hardly stay alive, and considering the amount of bad feedback
> I've been getting from the beta testers, I fear the end is nigh. I'm one
who
> comes to build, the social interaction is a distant second, but why bother
> building if no ones there to see it. I had the privilege of location
> building, meaning inside the p20 of A!!CT and I was able to have my builds
> seen, however, we are all not as lucky, we endeavored to place teleports
to
> builds but still, the best intentions are worthless if they are un-used.
>
> Awgate is a sad depressing place to see also, and personally, when I first
> arrived, found the continuous scrolling of "advice" by the "gk's" to be
> excessively confusing and when I asked the GK on duty at the time (who
will
> remain nameless) if I could get a list of instructions, she began
scrolling
> again, when I asked for a URL, I was responded to by ,"What's a URL?".
After
> pulling my hair out trying to learn the AW Browser I still found it
> difficult to find immediate help so I could learn at a faster rate.
>
> Tourists arrive at Awgate, new, fresh keen to have a look around, click on
> things, maybe build their first little masterpiece, they want help, and
its
> not available without it being forced down their throats by a GK why is
> going insane with the mouse button. Awgate needs to be revamped, new
ideas,
> freshen the place up, make it something worth looking at, not a place you
> cant wait to leave. Place instructions at Awgate itself, off in a corner
> somewhere where signs can inform a newbie tourist where to find immediate
> help, have a GK there, who is assigned to specifically help tourists in
the
> orientation area. This area should be out of range from GZ, so it
minimizes
> the confusion to the newbies. AW cannot rely on people being amazed at
> seeing 3d avatars, because alot of us have seen them before, there nothing
> new about them, but the AW building aspects and atmosphere is new, its
good,
> but the management of AwGate specifically is poor and a major downer for
the
> whole experience of being in AW. (*I will say that some Gk's at Awgate are
> good and do try very hard, for which I'm sure we are all grateful, its
just
> a few bad bananas spoil the whole bunch*)
>
> AW is home, in more ways than one to a few of us, I've seen just about
every
> world in AW at one time or another some good, some bad, some bloody ugly,
> but to those who built them, have stayed up endless nights by the glow of
> our monitor, they are OUR masterpieces, they are something we sit back and
> can say, I built that, and I'm bloody well proud of it. While we, the
> citizens and tourists are the lifeblood of AW, we DO try our hardest to
> bring new objects to our respective OP's we do try to find new ways to
bring
> in tourists, to find a niche that will set the world we call our home
apart
> from the others, but it will continue to remain a fruitless mission if AW
> doesn't pick its heels up. To JP and Rick, we do love this product you
have
> made for us to use and enjoy, but it needs some serious overhauling to
bring
> life back into it, New3.4 is not the solution, personally, I'm not
> interested in what New3.4 might or might not bring. Your solution is in
the
> presentation, show newbies that yeah, AW looks like a really nice place to
> kill my Sunday afternoon off, because ALL of us who have been here for a
> prolonged period of time, know full well its addictive qualities, this is
> what makes AW unique, but its let down by its Entrance Point ( AWgate),
its
> let down by its newbie help, its let down by callus fools who have found
> the flaw in the AW browsers ability to see through a masked IP and the
fools
> who deliberately destroy tourist builds..
>
> The few of us who have remained loyal supporters or AW are losing a
> proportional interest in this place, I personally don't want to bring
> newbies here, because I know hey will more than likely lose interest and
Ill
> have wasted several hours teaching them how to build etc, and I know on
this
> point, I'm not alone.
>
> Solutions......
>
> Put New3.4 on hold, fix what's existing
> Update AwGate and review re-screen Gk's, perhaps even run a survey on
> opinions of the GK on duty, time log them whatever and cross reference.
> Build a Newbie Orientation area at AWgate away from listening range of GZ
> and appoint respected cits to the position, atleast a signed area to help.
> Keep AW locked away from tourists ( Only for the reason it effects
privately
> owned worlds, whom pay substantial amounts of money for the privilege)
>
> For the worlds owned by AW that do allow tourists, such as AWTeen etc,
start
> some kind of back up system for the world, so in the event of wide spread
> vandalism, the world can be restored to the pre-vandalized state.
>
> These are just a couple of ideas that I think might help, but the main
> source of advertising AW relies on, is you and I, the dedicated supporters
> telling our friends, well , AW make it worth talking about and you will
find
> that within a few months, we can ALL collectively get AW back to a place
to
> be proud of.
>
> I have attached a few screenshots of my Builds for those whom have not
been
> to A!!CT lately, I haven't included a screenshot of A!!CT GZ Tower I built
> (*with some assistance from Defiance*), its something that should be seen
> first hand =). Other builds of mine in A!!CT include the Bot Center (not
> shown)
>
> For those who do know me from A!!CT, I quit as CT Moderator because of a
few
> select morons (who shall remain nameless) and will remain so until the
> solution is rectified. So all the new things I was planning on introducing
> will remain on hold. Whitestar introduced the VoiceChat which we both had
> been working on, but other than that, he will not be introducing any more
of
> my plans until I give him permission.
>
> On a final note, I have appreciated the feedback from all tourists,
citizens
> and moderators regarding my builds in A!!CT, however, due to the current
> circumstances I will not be building anything new for A!!CT, I will remain
> as an Advisor to Whitestar and Defiance but that's all, until , like I
said,
> the situation is rectified. I'm also not currently accepting invitations
to
> build in other worlds, or for specific games etc, I do however thank all
> those people who have asked my assistance or advise over the past several
> months.
>
> If AW Management requests my assistance, I'm willing to make some kind of
> arrangement.
>
> I can be contacted at - rowey22 at hotmail.com
>
> Thanks for your Time..
> Happy Buildin' and lets not have AW Die completely
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
|
Feb 15, 2003, 11:20am
I find it most amusing that you ask all find it necessary to argue a fact of
what we have seen, Yes, it seems illogical or improbable that someone can
use an ip that is not their own and not inside the range of their ISP, and
until you have seen it happen before your eyes, Id argue the fact it cant
happen either, but I have seen it, others have seen it, you dont need proof,
how do we prove something you won't consider being possible. As I said in my
origional message, I consulted my Network Engineer Teacher, and he said it
cant happen either, but it does, this person(s) is able to manipulate their
IP beyond its normal capabilities, we can read books till we're blue in the
face, the simple fact is, its possible, yet beyond explanation from us.
Some of you argueing its illigitamacy,some of you probably have no capacity
nor interest in worlds, you come here, build chat, thats you done, others,
have technical logs and monitor exactly what goes on in these worlds, around
the clock, we cant explain it, thats why I mentioned it here, figured we
might get some kind of responce, but all you seem to want to do is prove the
point wrong, its very petty. Without trying to compair what your money paid
for in your university degree, how about you listen to whats being said,
instead of argueing it. A solution is required, not all your pissy attempts
to prove what you do or dont know. I dont claim to know anything more than
the next person, but I know what I witnessed, so please contribute solutions
not arguements.
As for andras, should I post again I will use hyperlinks for pictures, i
didnt consider 100kb of documentation and pics would create such a stir.
[View Quote]"equin0x" <equin0x at activeworlds.com> wrote in message
news:3e4c7ffb at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Try buying a book you lot.
>
> "rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4a9ec4 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
of
> CT
> are
idea,
also
> delete
rule
offenders
> IP
out
> an
> solution
> you
it
on
bother
> me
Caretaker
> around,
the
feedback
> who
bother
builds
> to
first
> will
> scrolling
> After
on
> its
> ideas,
you
immediate
> the
> minimizes
nothing
> good,
> the
are
> just
> every
ugly,
of
and
> bring
> apart
AW
> have
> bring
> the
to
is
> its
found
> fools
> Ill
> this
GZ
help.
> privately
> start
spread
supporters
> find
> to
> been
built
seen
> few
introducing
had
more
> of
> citizens
remain
> said,
> to
several
of
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
|
Feb 15, 2003, 2:38pm
Who says their not using multipul ISPs and proxys?
Oh, and I claim to know just as much about the AW Protocol and
inner-workings as any AWCom developer. I dont see you claiming the same.
As eep would say, "Drive though".
-Joe
[View Quote]"rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3e4e3ea2 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I find it most amusing that you ask all find it necessary to argue a fact
of
> what we have seen, Yes, it seems illogical or improbable that someone can
> use an ip that is not their own and not inside the range of their ISP, and
> until you have seen it happen before your eyes, Id argue the fact it cant
> happen either, but I have seen it, others have seen it, you dont need
proof,
> how do we prove something you won't consider being possible. As I said in
my
> origional message, I consulted my Network Engineer Teacher, and he said it
> cant happen either, but it does, this person(s) is able to manipulate
their
> IP beyond its normal capabilities, we can read books till we're blue in
the
> face, the simple fact is, its possible, yet beyond explanation from us.
>
> Some of you argueing its illigitamacy,some of you probably have no
capacity
> nor interest in worlds, you come here, build chat, thats you done, others,
> have technical logs and monitor exactly what goes on in these worlds,
around
> the clock, we cant explain it, thats why I mentioned it here, figured we
> might get some kind of responce, but all you seem to want to do is prove
the
> point wrong, its very petty. Without trying to compair what your money
paid
> for in your university degree, how about you listen to whats being said,
> instead of argueing it. A solution is required, not all your pissy
attempts
> to prove what you do or dont know. I dont claim to know anything more than
> the next person, but I know what I witnessed, so please contribute
solutions
> not arguements.
>
> As for andras, should I post again I will use hyperlinks for pictures, i
> didnt consider 100kb of documentation and pics would create such a stir.
>
> "equin0x" <equin0x at activeworlds.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4c7ffb at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> of
who
> idea,
to
> also
things
> rule
such
> offenders
my
the
> out
more
we
doing
> it
been
> on
> bother
> Caretaker
> the
> feedback
one
> bother
> builds
teleports
un-used.
> first
be
click
> on
and
is
> you
corner
> immediate
in
> nothing
for
> are
> ugly,
> of
> and
to
> AW
in
place
> to
a
> is
AWgate),
> found
and
on
reference.
> GZ
> help.
> spread
> supporters
will
place
> built
> seen
(not
a
> introducing
> had
> more
current
> remain
invitations
all
> several
> of
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
|
Feb 15, 2003, 3:19pm
He has access to ISPs in Venezuela, USA, Australia, Phillipines,
Taiwan....yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, dream on.
[View Quote]"joeman" <joeman at bootdown.com> wrote in message
news:3e4e6ceb$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Who says their not using multipul ISPs and proxys?
>
> Oh, and I claim to know just as much about the AW Protocol and
> inner-workings as any AWCom developer. I dont see you claiming the same.
> As eep would say, "Drive though".
>
> -Joe
>
> "rowey" <rowey22 at hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4e3ea2 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
fact
> of
can
and
cant
> proof,
in
> my
it
> their
> the
> capacity
others,
> around
> the
> paid
> attempts
than
> solutions
interest
> who
> to
> things
and
> such
networking
> my
> the
work
> more
> we
tourist
> doing
> been
when
> one
> teleports
> un-used.
> be
(who
URL?".
> click
> and
> is
place
> corner
> in
at
its
> for
Awgate
its
about
glow
back
the
> to
to
home
if
you
to
> in
> place
for
> a
this
> AWgate),
the
bring
> and
> on
on
> reference.
of
privilege)
etc,
main
> will
> place
not
> (not
of
> a
the
both
> current
I
> invitations
> all
kind
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
|
Feb 15, 2003, 4:30pm
Its called a proxy, dream on. Next.
-Joe
[View Quote]"defiance" <Defiance at micro$oft.com> wrote in message
news:3e4e76ac at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> He has access to ISPs in Venezuela, USA, Australia, Phillipines,
> Taiwan....yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, dream on.
>
> "joeman" <joeman at bootdown.com> wrote in message
> news:3e4e6ceb$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
same.
> fact
> can
> and
> cant
> in
said
> it
in
us.
> others,
we
prove
said,
> than
i
stir.
> interest
people
no
address
effect
either.
and
> and
of
> networking
including
outside
> work
best
that
> tourist
being
> when
I'm
why
location
my
I
to
> (who
> URL?".
it
rate.
help,
why
new
> place
tourists
amazed
> at
> its
downer
> Awgate
> its
> about
bloody
> glow
> back
> the
hardest
ways
> to
> home
mission
> if
> you
overhauling
> to
is
> for
> this
have
> the
a
> bring
interest
know
> on
range
> of
to
> privilege)
> etc,
> main
> not
I
be
Center
because
> of
> the
> both
any
tourists,
will
like
> I
thank
> kind
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
|
Feb 15, 2003, 8:41pm
In article <3e4e76ac at server1.Activeworlds.com>, Defiance at micro$oft.com says...
> He has access to ISPs in Venezuela, USA, Australia, Phillipines,
> Taiwan....yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight, dream on.
>
The users you see changing IPs like that are doing what is often referred to as "open proxy rape".
Especially in countries like Korea, Brazil, Taiwan and China "admins" often fail to secure their
networks and properly authenticate their users thus providing free, unlimited, anonymous access to
their resources; this is very much appreciated by the scum of the universe, e-mail "marketers"
aka spammers. The only way to deal with this is to script/code a bot which will boot based on an
IP list, the concept is similar to black hole lists used for spammers.
Perhaps it would be a good idea for AWI to feed a list like ORDB or Openrbl to the router's or
firewall's deny list, most of these proxies are in these lists because of spam relay; I can't
imagine a legit customer raping an open proxy anyway.
--
Baron
|
