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August Gallery

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August Gallery // Bugs

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Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 10:34am

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Which reminds me, we've burned through over a page in what...fifteen minutes...that's got to be a record

Edit...now 2 pages

Post by splinters // Sep 12, 2008, 10:39am

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Weevil, I am suprised you would want the old prizes...they are useless. The only product you could win (other than Vray) is tS7.6...which is free. I, like a few others, have credit which as far as I know, cannot be spent on anything as there is nothing other than Vray which I have.


On that point, I have never, ever used workspace to render a Vray image other than to test it out. I happily render using Vray from model side.


If you like tS6.6 then use the model side of tS7.6 and Vray.


Now you just need to win a copy...there is the motivation...:D


P.S Weevil, I already told you how much I like your plane but I remember seeing better renders of it than the one in the gallery. Just a thought, and you should be proud of it.

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 10:41am

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I guess we are doing something by discussion it, aren't we, I'm sure Tom and others will be reading it...


Anyways, this was also my first entries and I'm happy to have them in the first 9... was pretty glad to have won my first SMC and MMC so that's great... :)


I love tS and I love coming up with new ideas for models and scenes so I will continue and probably enter anyway... ;)


Its just that little things like these gets to me sometimes, I'm working on it to not let it upset me that much... now, time to get back to my mushroom house ;)


Especially ME! I'm in the UK! It's my first entry! And the wait was KILLER!


Didn't we have an update problem like this last month, or was that a major crash?


Now...Really...As much as I would like to see a clear winner, I think we may just have to wait until next month...and if it happens again...then I suggest a formal complaint, maybe ask Tom to carry it or something...But as it stands, I don't think there's anything we could do...


I'm taking a more relaxed approach simply because I didn't enter to win the prizes simply because I'd have no use for them...I don't use 7.6 so V-ray's out, I'm not interested in XNA and to me...Streets and trips is just a load of crap.


I would SERIOUSLY enter if they bring back the old prizes (one free product and runner up gets discount wasn't it?)


But, if your entries are constantly being shown then THAT'S your selling point should you include it in your CV, portfolio or whatever (I know I will, got in first time) and if you're truly not happy and the problem such as this persists then you may be better off finding a different competition 'off board' to enter...


Edit, and thanks for the compliment about my entry btw Thenus!

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 10:42am

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Really, I thought the old prizes were one free product of your choice and the runner up was discount of their next purchase? Strange...

But then Splinters...We've come full circle...how do you suppose I win it if they aren't selecting a winner...
EDIT: Why I don't like using 7.6

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5930

There are more reasons...just...ts fells butchered by microsoft now

Post by Breech Block // Sep 12, 2008, 11:35am

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I'm afraid I must side with Splinters on this one. Whilst all the images in this month's gallery are very, very good, I do not feel as if any of them meet the contest's watermark. The contest guide states quite clearly that images should "make the most of our software's capabilities," and with all due respect to the individual artists involved, sorry but I think Caligari was right not to pick a winner.


By way of an example, you only have to look at the recent work posted by Adriani (see link below) to see that the software is capable of rendering work to a higher standard.


http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6611


Interestingly, 2 of the recently posted images that I have very much admired, Transient's and Prodigy's entries in the confectionery SMC, both of which in my opinion would be worthy winners of the Caligari competition, do not seem to have been entered.


Perhaps MS\Caligari should seek to address just why these stunning images (by Transient, Prodigy and Adriani) are not gracing prime slots on their webspace.


Apologies in advance if I have misspelled anybodies name.

Post by Weevil // Sep 12, 2008, 11:38am

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Yes, Adriani does seem to have 'pro' stamped all over his work. And the fact he didn't enter may be the reason we're having this debate in the first place!:D

Post by theuns // Sep 12, 2008, 11:53am

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Hi Breech, had a look at the "about competition" page again and didn't see anything about "make the most of our software's capabilities", where did you see that?


Adriani's work is AWESOME, but to tell the truth, I don't see how that "made the most of our software's capabilities" either, outstanding detailed modeling with great texturing and reflections, yes... using a lot of the software capabilities? not so sure...


Either way though... from all that was said so far, it definately seems like different people sees a different purpose for the competition, some think it should show "the most of the software's capabilities" and others think its "the best image wins" and some indicated "the best realism depicting image"...


With all these different views, I doubt we will get consensus on anything unless the contest "purpose" is more clearly stipulated and understood by all...


Regardless though, it is great to see all the good images produced, isn't it?




I'm afraid I must side with Splinters on this one. Whilst all the images in this month's gallery are very, very good, I do not feel as if any of them meet the contest's watermark. The contest guide states quite clearly that images should "make the most of our software's capabilities," and with all due respect to the individual artists involved, sorry but I think Caligari was right not to pick a winner.


By way of an example, you only have to look at the recent work posted by Adriani (see link below) to see that the software is capable of rendering work to a higher standard.


http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6611


Interestingly, 2 of the recently posted images that I have very much admired, Transient's and Prodigy's entries in the confectionery SMC, both of which in my opinion would be worthy winners of the Caligari competition, do not seem to have been entered.


Perhaps MS\Caligari should seek to address just why these stunning images (by Transient, Prodigy and Adriani) are not gracing prime slots on their webspace.


Apologies in advance if I have misspelled anybodies name.

Post by Breech Block // Sep 12, 2008, 12:26pm

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Hi Breech, had a look at the "about competition" page again and didn't see anything about "make the most of our software's capabilities", where did you see that?


Hi theuns, you'll find the info at the link below, on the Entry Details page. Perhaps Caligari should make it more prominent.


http://gallery.caligari.com/gallery/login_form.asp


In addition, I think their wording of "A winner and a runner-up are chosen each month" is also slightly misleading and perhaps they could save a lot of grief by rewording that.


Yes, it is great to see any images posted in the gallery and personally I think if you get an honourable mention it shows that your work is both appreciated and that you are on the right track. When I got one for my first animation project not only did it spur me on to make another, but it really helped me to raise the bar on my work. So much so that my next entry won.


You also have a valid point about whether Adriani's work counts as really using the software capabilities. IMO, Caligari's interpretation of that statement is render quality, which unless you have VRay, is very difficult to achieve. But there again, ask yourself, if you created an image using loads of particles, physics, volumetrics, DOF, motion blur and lens flare, rendered it in Lightworks, would it really stand a chance against any one of Adriani's pics?

Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2008, 12:28pm

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After using these forums for all these years one thing that comes up all the time is the judging itself. The word Judges is used lately but I think it boils down to one...the BIG one. So of course it is personal taste, what should be headlined, lighting used, what looks best showcased bla bla bla. It is their Gallery so you know...
If there is no winner in certain months why is a rendering still show cased for that month? Why not a blank window? Fair is fair.
I appreciate the chance to make the Monthly pages of the Gallery but enough is enough for me. If they want shiny balls let them get them from somewhere else. My submission to it ended today.

Edit: Sorry about what I said here. This really should have been put in the "Rants and Raves" thread.

Post by adriani // Sep 12, 2008, 1:41pm

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Hi all!! :)


Now I can see the imagens in this month!!! bugs...too

I liked very much all works, speciallly the Dragon!


This month no winner again :(

although I think we all are winners, expressing creativity and talent.


About the question of a winner, I think the caligari this being more demanding with the types of work, exactly like the Max, lightwave etc. ... works with more talented ...unfortunately we live the problem of globalization

and the ARTIST/art that are gradually losing its strength ..


Although I think the gallery should be divided into architecture, product design, creatures, fantasy etc. ...

It is easier! :)


This month not put any image in the gallery, I found better share with the community as well as all do. I have worked a lot, and sometimes finds time when I do something different.


Sorry for my bad english again....


But Congratulation for all that make art in 3D :)

Post by Nez // Sep 13, 2008, 1:11am

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Wow, there's been a lot of posts since I was onyesterday afternoon...


I can understand most of the reactions here and it is interesting to see the different views and past conpsiracies brought up again....


It would be interesting/informative to have a slightly better set of criteria used for judging so that we know what kind of thing is looked for - is it as 'simple' as realism? To my mind (if I was judging), that wouldn't be the only factor as creative entries (with Steinie's and Splinters' being good examples) demonstrate the versatility and capability of tS in interesting and diverse ways, beyond the 'ordinary' arch-viz type use (no offence to Adriani of course, who has featured numerous times in the Gallery already)...


I could understand the view that none of this months entries are 'top-notch' standard and if winning basically requires something that could be usedin promotional material (or close to that quality), either realistic or otherwise, then it would be useful to understand that - though it would put many off.


Personally I'm pretty pleased with an HM - after all, my sub was an SMC entry, knocked up in under 2 hours (including lighting and rendering) - and using tS5 - it certainly didn't deserve a win. So if I can get an HM on that basis, others should be encouraged that better must be possible...


Mind you, the wait was pretty agonising...! I hope to keep entering, hopefully with some better entries - as I'd really like a copy of VRay.... won't get it, but doesn't hurt to try...

Post by spacekdet // Sep 13, 2008, 4:58am

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Never underestimate the power of Orange Fog. (TM)

Post by Steinie // Sep 13, 2008, 5:11am

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Tomatoes are kind of Orange aren't they?


I should have heeded to the Fog back then...

Post by Johny // Sep 13, 2008, 11:03pm

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I can not open Caligari home page. :(

http://www.caligari.com/

Anyone else have some problem or only me?

Post by splinters // Sep 14, 2008, 12:04am

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Works fine for me Johny...:(

Post by Johny // Sep 14, 2008, 1:53am

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Thanks for the info Splinters. After read your post I check it again and it work now. :)

Two hours ago its not work, look like the Caligari server now in Ireland. ;)

Ops there're only one entry for Virtual Earth Gallery??? Wish to to more entries next month. ;)

Post by theuns // Sep 14, 2008, 10:44pm

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okay, final comment?


To me, as a digital artist, it is all about the atmosphere and feeling and idea that is conveyed by the final image, not how many tools you've used, how many hours you've spent on it or the amount of lights, reflections and polygons you've put into it... this is why the criteria for the competition should clearly defined...


Personally, I'm pretty 'proud' of what I produced and do the best I can, as are all of us. The idea that none of the entries was good enough is a bit of a slap in the face to all those who entered, in the absence of the criteria used for judging and hopefully the judging is not done by one person with his or her personal likes and dislikes since that would be unfair.


Categories like Adriani suggested might be a good idea to help clear up the misconceptions and disappointments?


Anyways, I also feel like Steinie and will consider future entries (not a threat, just how I feel and decide to do) and I still think there were some great entries this month :)

Post by ranger0101 // Sep 15, 2008, 2:09am

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Let me see if I've got this right....


There is no monthly Image contest.... There is an on going plese the judge or nobody wins thingy going on... Dissapointing...

WOuld have been less dissapointing if this fact were mentioned in the rules...



CHEERS!:jumpy:


ranger0101:banana:

Post by Burnart // Sep 15, 2008, 1:21pm

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I've been thinking about this for a few days. Everyone in the gallery has done a much better job than anything I could do. Some of them have really good models, some are well composed, some use the visual elements of tone and colour in an interesting way some are very nice renders with all the technical aspects of rendering well thought out. Perhaps that's the problem none of them seem to have it all so none of them really stand head and shoulders above the rest. Hence no overall winner.

I wonder if the real problem is the whole mechanics of the competition itself. It is definitely a disincentive to enter when no prize is awarded with increasing regularity. Perhaps the nature of the prize needs to be examined? If they (by which I mean Roman!) can't select an overall winner that month for the "Grand Prize" perhaps a lesser value prize, an "Encouragement Prize" could be given instead. It might be given to someone for a really good first time submission or because they have submitted numerous times and got an "Honourable Mention" on many of those occasions - but never won. It may be they display a particular aspect ie great original model work even though other aspects are not as well handled. If the "Encouragement Prize" is awarded instead of the "Grand Prize" then a simple reason should be given for that choice - an explanation highlighting the positive aspect of the prize winner.

Maybe the competition should be bi-monthly or quarterly? Perhaps it should be themed based? Perhaps there should be a requirement that submitters must establish a WIP thread seeking advice for improving their work during the competition period?

Its sad to see the comp languish. It needs to be reinvigorated somehow.

Post by theuns // Sep 15, 2008, 10:46pm

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Good points Burnart... although a month is a good time to do a proper image composition, less might be too short, besides there are the bi-monthly SMC and the monthly MMC forum competitions as well...


I really think that if the judges are looking for something specific, they should stipulate it and subcategories would make it more focused, difficult to judge a realism piece with a scifi/fantasy one...


Not sure about the Encouragement prize but sounds like a good idea too...



I've been thinking about this for a few days. Everyone in the gallery has done a much better job than anything I could do. Some of them have really good models, some are well composed, some use the visual elements of tone and colour in an interesting way some are very nice renders with all the technical aspects of rendering well thought out. Perhaps that's the problem none of them seem to have it all so none of them really stand head and shoulders above the rest. Hence no overall winner.


I wonder if the real problem is the whole mechanics of the competition itself. It is definitely a disincentive to enter when no prize is awarded with increasing regularity. Perhaps the nature of the prize needs to be examined? If they (by which I mean Roman!) can't select an overall winner that month for the "Grand Prize" perhaps a lesser value prize, an "Encouragement Prize" could be given instead. It might be given to someone for a really good first time submission or because they have submitted numerous times and got an "Honourable Mention" on many of those occasions - but never won. It may be they display a particular aspect ie great original model work even though other aspects are not as well handled. If the "Encouragement Prize" is awarded instead of the "Grand Prize" then a simple reason should be given for that choice - an explanation highlighting the positive aspect of the prize winner.


Maybe the competition should be bi-monthly or quarterly? Perhaps it should be themed based? Perhaps there should be a requirement that submitters must establish a WIP thread seeking advice for improving their work during the competition period?


Its sad to see the comp languish. It needs to be reinvigorated somehow.

Post by Burnart // Sep 16, 2008, 1:15pm

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It was probably a little unfair of me to only blame the mechanics of the comp in my previous post - perhaps we need to alter our approach to the comp as well.


You have an idea and start working on an image. Imagine after a month you started a WIP thread and posted what you personally thought was the best finished product you could do. The kind of image that normally you would send straight to the comp. You get all kinds of advice about your work what to do to improve it. Change the composition a little maybe, shift the lighting, improve some model details, tweak the dof, resolve a texture issue, etc etc. All through the keen eyes and encouragement of your fellow users.


I know some people do use WIPs in comp entries but most people (including myself) tend to go for the big "reveal" - unveiling for the first time their latest in the comp itself. If I started a WIP now, there is nothing, as far as I can see, to prevent me from developing that image/project for several months before submitting. Its obvious to me that constructive criticism from my tS peers (and betters!) will improve whatever I do.


There is a lot of knowledge and skill in the forum - we all should use it more.

Post by W!ZARD // Sep 17, 2008, 1:28am

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Well I only just found this thread! I'd been waiting for it to appear in the round table forum:D .Sadly it all sounds very familiar. Every month people enter the comp, every month - regardless of whether a prize is awarded or not - there is a follow-up post mortem thread like this one. Almost invariably, someone is annoyed, disappointed or just plain pissed off about what choices were made by the Judges.


The same points get raised all over again and nothing changes but the names of the posters!!


FWIW I sympathise with both parties - it's frustrating to those who enter because they want to win something and I suspect it's disappointing to Caligari that more entries are not submitted - they do keep urging us to submit.


I can't help thinking that anyone entering any contest expecting to win it - specially when the results are based on subjective principles rather than measurable results - is setting themselves up for disappointment before they start. The odds are greatly stacked against you - if you want a Vray licence that bad then you would be better off spending the time doing odd jobs or walking the neighbours dog for the money to buy it rather than trying to win it.You could earn an extra hundred bucks a month for the next three months and end up knowing you could get Vray - or you could spend the time making 3d art in the hope that you might get selected as a winner (remembering you might win one of the other prizes instead!!).


Entering simply to win something is a no-brainer IMO.



Personally, I enter lots of competitions - and I've been fortunate enough to win a few - but I never enter with the expectation of winning anything.


In fact, the biggest prizes I've won (in terms of dollar value) have all been won with unfinished WIPs or thrown-together images that I personally would not have selected. The pictures I've made that I've considered to be me 'best' and therefore perhaps more worthy of winning something NEVER get selected!:D. Call it Karma, Kismett or creative visualization gone wrong but this has been my experience.


As a result, I enter contests with no expectation - simply for the reward of competing with (as opposed to competing against) other artists. The software I've won over the years has been nice - no doubt about that - but the greatest reward for me comes from being a part of something.


************************


Last month I entered an animation, an illustration and a VE entry - and I've received some very nice feedback as a result (thanks again to all who commented on my work). I clearly won the VE category as I'm apparently the only person who entered, if Breech Block was judging the Animations I'd have won that too and if Splinters had judged the Still Image category I'd be a winner there too.


But how fair would it be to have awarded me all three prizes - or even one? Given that (a) I'm something of an old hand and relatively competent with trueSpace which gives me a huge advantage over newer users, (b) that I have all the time in the world to work on my entries, giving me another massive advantage over those users who work, or attend school or otherwise have far less time available, and (c) I've already been selected many times over for inclusion in the gallery and have won 1st and 2nd prizes on several occasions already.


If Caligari wanted to give me even more free software - I'd love a copy of Vray;) - to add to what they've already awarded me it's probably a safe bet that someone would have been annoyed about that; it's just human nature.


Perhaps the key question here is 'why have I won so often in the past'? After all I may be competent at what I can do but there are plenty of more capable and (dare I say it) talented tS users out there. The one thing I do, probably more so than anyone else, is keep on submitting stuff - pretty much month after month.


All those brilliant castles from the MMC - and not one entered as a still, or with an animation fly through or as a VE submission. Dudes, have you considered that NOT submitting your work for the Caligallery is letting down the whole tS community?


Every artwork NOT submitted, increases the likelihood that no prize will be awarded at all - like this month. - By NOT submitting, you are effectively letting down everyone, Caligari, the Users, and the folk who enter the contest as well as those who are not yet users simply because they haven't been inspired by your work in the Caligallery because it's not there. Most of all, you're letting yourself down coz for sure you won't win anything if you don't enter!


Seems to me it's up to us - if we want the Caligallery to be a success then we need to support it, submit our work whilst at the same time congratulating ourselves for supporting and aiding someone (possibly even yourself) to win some software package they may (or may not) have a desire for!


Remember that only those who play sport to win are able to lose - those who play simply for the joy of playing are all winners regardless of what the scoreboard says.




A final thought for those who don't enter because they already have Vray - presumably you could always transfer the licence to a fellow competition entrant..... choosing the recipient could give you a small taste of the stress that Roman puts himself through every month when he makes his decision!!;)

Post by Steinie // Sep 17, 2008, 1:55am

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Sorry Wizard but your post set me off...


FWIW I sympathise with both parties -Steinie:"You always do"

The odds are greatly stacked against you -
Steinie:18:1 Odds

Entering simply to win something is a no-brainer IMO. Steinie: "No prize was being sought."

Personally, I enter lots of competitions - and I've been fortunate enough to win a few - but I never enter with the expectation of winning anything. Steinie- "This is the first time I don't believe what you are telling me."

In fact, the biggest prizes I've won (in terms of dollar value) have all been won with unfinished WIPs or thrown-together images that I personally would not have selected. Steinie-"This was thrown together as you say?..."

http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/ImagesGallery/2007/mar/winner.asp?img=3041&email=stephen.may@paradise.net.nz&name=Stephen%20May


The one thing I do, probably more so than anyone else, is keep on submitting stuff - pretty much month after month.
Steinie "want to bet?"

All those brilliant castles from the MMC - and not one entered as a still Steine:"Did you miss one or doesn't mine count?"

Every artwork NOT submitted, increases the likelihood that no prize will be awarded at all - like this month. - By NOT submitting, you are effectively letting down everyone, Caligari, the Users, and the folk who enter the contest as well as those who are not yet users simply because they haven't been inspired by your work in the Caligallery because it's not there. Most of all, you're letting yourself down coz for sure you won't win anything if you don't enter!

Steinie:"Unless everyone stops sending in Art the rules will NEVER change. The message about letting Caligari down? You've got to be kidding me. Since when does a Customer let down a Company? Wizard you need to wear a name tag"

p.s. This one set me off because you don't have a clear picture of what is going on. Please don't justify your winnings with the Losers.
Not everyone in the contest was after VRAy. Why should I give it away? Where did that come from?

I also have issues with VUE being used in a trueSpace gallery. However that wasn't brought up. Same could be said about PS, Silo etc etc. Didn't that turn off many long time submitters?
After seeing Roman's non selection for many many months I doubt there was any stress at all.

The fact is the ship is heading for VE world and as time goes on these future discussions will be in a vaccum. Just another view point.

Post by theuns // Sep 17, 2008, 2:22am

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From my side, I don't really care about V-ray or the prizes that much... I'm more upset that there was no winner when there were pretty good entries... but that said, it IS a competition to see who wins, that is what competitions are all about... whether there is a prize or not...


This led to the whole discussion about the actual purpose of the competition and the judging etc... etc...


It just seems to me there is no clear judging guidelines which makes a little unfair and impossible to win unless you are lucky and happen to catch the fancy/liking of the judge... whoever it is... whether it was a good image or not...

Post by transient // Sep 17, 2008, 2:47am

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I also have issues with VUE being used in a trueSpace gallery. However that wasn't brought up.


Yes, that's bizarro land, especially when you have two great renderers that need more exposure.


The gallery contest can easily be improved, but I guess it's hard to resist change. The speed and monthly modeling contests are worth their weight in gold to Caligari, and both were created by the community, if I'm not mistaken.


You can't buy that stuff.

Post by theuns // Sep 17, 2008, 2:54am

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very true about the community ones transient, was wondering if they shouldn't just give a prize to those winners but I think it would change for the worst should there be prises involved so that should stay as it is.

Post by transient // Sep 17, 2008, 3:32am

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Yes, you're probably right.


If there was just a gallery thread created every month, everyone could just post their images and Cailgari could negotiate prizes and the usage of the image on a case-by-case basis. If an image isn't worthy of a prize, then why does Caligari need the formal rights to it?


It would avoid the argument that artists were signing the rights to their work away on a promise.

Post by W!ZARD // Sep 17, 2008, 4:13am

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Sorry Wizard but your post set me off... Ooops Sorry! Wasn't meant to.


FWIW I sympathise with both parties -Steinie:"You always do" Ah! You spotted that! What can I say, the Moon Was in Libra when I was born - I don't know how to understand an argument with only looking at one side of it.


Steinie:18:1 Odds - I'm no statistician but I believe it doesn't work that way - if there are 12 entries and one winner there is a one in 12 chance of you winning at a random selection (and that varies each month depending on how many entries are received) but this is not a random selection <shrug>.


Entering simply to win something is a no-brainer IMO. Steinie: "No prize was being sought." Sorry Bob - I know you've said this elsewhere too. That comment was not specifically directed at you - I just wanted to point out that anyone wanting to obtain Vray by winning it was choosing a really inefficient way to do so - and that there are better reasons for entering than just winning something.


Personally, I enter lots of competitions - and I've been fortunate enough to win a few - but I never enter with the expectation of winning anything. Steinie- "This is the first time I don't believe what you are telling me." Chuckle - fair enough, but it is true all the same - luck, fortune, karma, call it what you will, whether it be good or bad, almost always arrives when you least expect it. Therefore it makes sense to me to NOT expect to win. This puts less performance pressure on the quantum waveforms ... but that's a whole other topic and a half!:D


Steinie-"This was thrown together as you say?..."Yeah I know! This is a prime example of what I'm talking about. That picture is one of my most popular and successful works - but the reality is that I chucked it together at the last minute - the only thing that was created specifically for this image was the 'Wizards Tower' at left centre and the hill that the Citadel sits on. Everything else was made with elements from earlier pictures - so while there was a lot of work overall in building all the models, this picture was made almost entirely from existing stuff I already had sitting on my hard drive from earlier works. I put this pic together in about 3 days.


Steinie "want to bet?"I'm not a gambling man (after all I never expect to win!;)) but I'm reasonably confident that I'm one of the most prolific submitters to the Caligallery over the last 4 or 5 years. I've never counted my submissions.


Steine:"Did you miss one or doesn't mine count?"Ah my bad! Yes I did miss one and yes yours certainly counts. My oversight I apologise. I was more concerned about all those other cool castles that weren't entered - which is what my point was about.


Steinie:"Unless everyone stops sending in Art the rules will NEVER change. The message about letting Caligari down? You've got to be kidding me. Since when does a Customer let down a Company? Wizard you need to wear a name tag"

LOL - I think your being a little selective with your reading here Steinie - my statement referred to the Company AND the user community - two separate but synergistically connected organisms - mutually symbiotic parasites if you like - they (the company) can't do what they want with out us - the users, and vice versa. Therefore supporting the community supports the company which supports the community which supports the company - this is Good Business 101 stuff.


If I were to wear a name tag it would read "Selfish Mother F***** who wants the best for myself and figures the best way to get that is to support EVERYONE else so they are better equipped to support me!":D. Science has shown that positive energy generates better results than negative energy. If you are a parent or a dog owner with happy kids or dogs you will have discovered that positive reinforcement works far better than negative reinforcement. That's why I probably come across as a 'company man' when I'm really not.


If everyone stops sending in art as you suggest then the rules WILL change - but will they change for the better? They may just scrap the monthly contest altogether - a lose-lose solution. The alternative - a win-win solution is for us - the community - to send them - the company - so much good quality stuff that they have absolutely no excuse for not selecting a winner. You and I have been doing that, by consistently submitting to, and thereby supporting, the monthly gallery.


This one set me off because you don't have a clear picture of what is going on.Are you privy to information that I am not? If so I'd appreciate being enlightened. If however it's a case of me seeing a half full glass that you see as half empty then I'm not sure how you can justify this remark.


Not everyone in the contest was after VRAy. Why should I give it away? Where did that come from? Both Weevil and I would like to get Vray - neither of us can justify the expense. I've noted a singular lack of interest in the other two prizes, neither of which would be of any value to me whatsoever. Why should you give it away? You could ask why should Roman give it away;) Actually, this came from Splinters comments that he does not enter the contest because he already has Vray - I could have been clearer when I wrote that, sorry. Splinters is perfectly entitled to this position and it does make a lot of sense - however for the few minutes it takes to enter one of his excellent pictures he could be benefiting a fellow member of this community - another win-win solution as far as I can see.


Obviously, should you win Vray and have a good use for it (or any other prize) well there's nothing more to be said other than "congratulations, I bet your glad you entered the contest"!


I also have issues with VUE being used in a trueSpace galleryThis is no longer permitted - Tom has made it very clear that VUE renders etc are no longer eligible - which is partly why I've stopped entering VUE renders. Additionally, no VUE renders have ever won anything in the caligallery other than being selected - and rightfully so IMO. (These were submitted with the expectation that they would NOT win):)


I agree with Theuns remarks - "I'm more upset that there was no winner when there were pretty good entries." but what really pisses me off is that the selfish 'what's in it for me' mentality in the community meant that Roman received so few entries that everyone lost out. If the community had inundated him with quality entries he would have had no reason to not select a winner. I mean after all there is now a whole new category available and only one person entered that category.


As far as I'm concerned we, the user community, dropped the ball there. Only one entry in the VE category, only one Animation even remotely approaching finished state, only one entry from the MMC... that's a called a piss poor effort where I come from.


I deleted this a remark before posting my last message but I've decided to run with it now - Those who entered the contest have a right to an opinion about it and a right to complain - those who did not enter have the right to an opinion but no right to complain.


The general reaction appears to be that Roman let down the community by not awarding a winner - it's my opinion (FWIW) that the community let down Roman (and themselves) but not submitting so many good entries that Roman had no choice but to select a winner.


Steinie - please forgive me if you feel singled out by my remarks. I am in no way critical of you - after all you've entered at least 18 images for the contest. My issue is with those who can't find a minute and a half to submit a picture, or an hour and a half to whip up something for VE.


The effectiveness of any community is totally dependant on the quality of the contributions of the community members - we are all part of this community - the users and the company together, this is not an Us or Them situation.

Post by W!ZARD // Sep 17, 2008, 4:23am

W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Yes, that's bizarro land, especially when you have two great renderers that need more exposure.




Yeah it does look odd at face value however I'm fairly certain that Vue renders were only ever included in the Gallery to show what could be achieved with Vue and tS together. I'm almost 100% certain that no Vue render has ever been selected as first prize or even runner up. I am 100% certain that none of my Vue renders ever won anything in the Caligari Gallery.


Additionally Tom has recently announced that Vue renders are no longer eligible for submission. It made sense before when we had just the LW renderer but now with so many rendering choices available directly in tS there is no need for Vue renders - and as you say Transient we now have "two great renderers that need more exposure.". (Actually 3, LW, Virtualight, DX9 - plus Vray as an optional extra).

Post by transient // Sep 17, 2008, 4:45am

transient
Total Posts: 977
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It's good to know that this has been changed.


I was actually talking about dribble and vray, but I suppose the real-time renderer deserves a wrap, too. I like lightworks, but vray and 3delight are much bigger dogs now.


Every time I tell someone truespace has both of these renderers it raises eyebrows (I also think ts maybe unique in this regard - I don't think any other 3d software can internally use both, although I may be wrong).
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