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skeleton fustrations
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skeleton fustrations // New Users
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 27, 2009, 11:05am
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Hello.
After making a simple actor (An arrow with the ability to bend it in the middle to the left, right, or up) I save the object. I create a scene with a bunch of the actors, move their bones and save copies of the scene as I make changes. Now, I go and reload a scene and some of the characters have their skin moved away from their skeletons. :( Drop in a saved character (or make a copy of one) and it MAY show up right or warped (due to skeleton being moved)
Grab an actor, fix the position of the bones, save the object, and if I drop it back in the scene again the bones move away.
Does anyone know what causes this? Is there an easy way to fix the actors/scene? :confused: |
Post by mrbones // Apr 27, 2009, 11:38am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Yes, Unnattach skeletons again recenter and position them, then when in optimum position hit the save default pose button for each skeleton, then save scene, Then reattach skeletons to mesh then save that scene as a different name.
Another tip is to save a keyframe at frame 0, that should freeze the skeletons good and when you attach them they will not move away from skin after reloading/
Cheers |
Post by frootee // Apr 27, 2009, 11:54am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Would this work if you use the Macro Record, Bones? Then it could be applied without repeating all the steps?
Froo |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 27, 2009, 11:55am
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Thank you for the quick reply.
I've gone through that process (for a character for a scene of characters) saved new character/scene respectively, re-load them and some of them are wacked again. Wacked as in the skeleton is moved away from the skin.
At times I highlight a perfectly aligned actor and do CTRL-C and the copy made pops up wacked. See the attached where all I did was CTRL-C, then moved the actor and selected "Dynamic pose" so you can see the skeleton in relation to the skin.
Strange thing: I just did a test where selected the wacked one and did a CTRL-C. The copy of that came up like the original, not wacked or wacked wacked. Tried again, copy of wacked comes up wacked. :confused: (Feeling kinda wacked on this. :p ) |
Post by mrbones // Apr 27, 2009, 2:29pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Also, Make sure you know when you have skeleton selected vs when you have actor active. It makes a diference.
Thank you for the quick reply.
I've gone through that process (for a character for a scene of characters) saved new character/scene respectively, re-load them and some of them are wacked again. Wacked as in the skeleton is moved away from the skin.
At times I highlight a perfectly aligned actor and do CTRL-C and the copy made pops up wacked. See the attached where all I did was CTRL-C, then moved the actor and selected "Dynamic pose" so you can see the skeleton in relation to the skin.
Strange thing: I just did a test where selected the wacked one and did a CTRL-C. The copy of that came up like the original, not wacked or wacked wacked. Tried again, copy of wacked comes up wacked. :confused: (Feeling kinda wacked on this. :p ) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 27, 2009, 6:08pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Fascinating. The CTRL-C thing should be useful for the devs to look at since the behaviour is duplicatable. Can you post a simple scene or model that the devs can use for testing?
I'd say the safer approach would be to unattach the bones, copy the skeleton and mesh sparately then re-attach. |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 28, 2009, 5:13am
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Thanks for the help.
Ok, here are some examples.
Here is a character but if I drop it on the scene the skin is shifted (I believe X axis?).
Same shifting in the scene but only on certain copies of the actors. (Had to be zipped as it is 2.3MB which seems unusually big for what it is) You can see how it was saved but it comes up different.
In scene.jpg, gray arrows should be flat and pointing straight, right, or left. Orange turns up.
You can see in the sample.jpg image how they should look. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 28, 2009, 6:01am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Thanks bumforaliving,
I posted a report and link on the beta forum for the devs to look at. :) |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 28, 2009, 4:18pm
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Ok, the attached scene saved fine. If I load it from the Workspace, Switch to Model side and move objects (in particular I have collision with ground on trying to get all objects on the plane) then switch back to the Workspace side, save scene and reload, the objects I adjusted are altered. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 28, 2009, 4:32pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ah, you know that editing the objects in model side destroys Workspace skeletal data right? Also you can't save out Workspace stuff from model side. It looses the Workspace space specific data.
Model side is the old legacy trueSpace 6.6 as a big plugin so it doesn't know anything about the new trueSpace 7.x (Workspace) stuff like skeletal animation and morphs. |
Post by v3rd3 // Apr 28, 2009, 4:40pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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These days, whether I work on Modelside or Workspace, I feel half pregnant. |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 28, 2009, 7:09pm
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Ah, you know that editing the objects in model side destroys Workspace skeletal data right? Also you can't save out Workspace stuff from model side. It looses the Workspace space specific data.
.
I thought it was ok to move the objects (not edit) as when I came back to Workspace the skeletal data is still in tact and in position. Guess the destruction does not show up until the scene is reloaded?
Ok, a few questions then:
How do I do collision detection on the workspace side to move objects on to the plane?
I'm going to render using the Model side, can I apply materials/lights on the model side without screwing up workspace data? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 28, 2009, 9:06pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yeah that should be ok, but always save on Workspace side before crossing the bridge.
I don't use model side anymore so maybe on of the others can help you find a work around.
You're other option would be to use YafaRay from Workspace side for the animation. I was planning to take a break, but if someone needs the animation for a project, I could probably get that implemented within a few weeks. |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 29, 2009, 4:45am
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Even applying a material to the actor changed it. It's perfectly fine until I save the scene then reload it.
Is there a way to basically use bones to warp the arrow to the shape I want, freeze the mesh in that position, that remove the bones? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 29, 2009, 6:21am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Yep. Flatten history tool should extract the skeletal deformed mesh intact. :)
When painting the materials on model side, the trick would be to do the materials before attaching the skeleton. Material changes do modify the mesh if they are applied to face selections instead of the whole object, so that would probably destroy the Workspace bones if the mesh was already skinned when the material was applied in Model side. |
Post by spacekdet // Apr 29, 2009, 7:38am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Since you want the collision detection that Model-side allows, why not just use the Bend tool on the arrow while you're there?
Avoid the frustrations of attempting to dance the 'Boney Moroni'
19591 |
Post by bumforaliving // Apr 30, 2009, 2:37am
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bumforaliving
Total Posts: 16
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Yep. Flatten history tool should extract the skeletal deformed mesh intact. :)
Cool, that will do the trick. Thank you Jack!
Thanks for the tip spacekdet. I'm trying to learn to do things as much as I can on design through the Workspace side but I'll have to check out the warping.
For positioning, I'm not sure how to do it as there does not appear to be collision control?
I like the live feedback on rendering of model side and wish the same could be done on Workspace. Since I'm rendering with that, I'm using the materials editor there which for now is more intuitive to me then the workspace side. |
Post by RichLevy // Apr 30, 2009, 2:49am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Something to give a test with. As Space shows, the modelside has some nice deforming tools, use them to make the keyframe positions you want, than use the morphing tools on the WS side to move between the different morphs (you will have sliders to make the moves) I am not sure how they work with WS side physics, I have never tried them. Maybe that will help you. Also, Clintonman has some nice constraining tools on his website that work pretty well with geometry, they might help you also.
HTH
Rich |
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