SMC #39 - Space Exploration - Comments

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SMC #39 - Space Exploration - Comments // Speed Model Challenge

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Post by MikeJoel // Dec 8, 2008, 11:22am

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Here is the place to post comments, discussions, etc. dealing with this SMC.


Thanks,

Mike

Post by prodigy // Dec 9, 2008, 5:45am

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Mike, just a comment..
I think your topic is a bit wide open.. is more a MMC topic than for a SMC :o

Maybe Spaceship, Exploration tools, planets stars and galaxies... :rolleyes:

Just a comment..

Post by rjeff // Dec 9, 2008, 6:16am

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Must agree with Prodigy. You need to narrow it down.

Post by Mr. 3d // Dec 9, 2008, 8:27am

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I created a space scene last night, so I hope it doesn't narrow me out. I think a spaceship is technically asking for alot to create in 2 hours (at least it is for me). I did, however, manage to include an explorer to my scene as an additional (separate picture) view on the drama.

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 9, 2008, 11:23am

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Sorry. I probably didn't express myself clear enough.


"Either manned or unmanned, fictional or not.

Remember EVA is also part of exploration. It doesn't have to be just craft either. Planet side vehicles or anything else!"


I thought that part had narrowed it down to a vehicle of some form.

I will update the topic to reflect that it is definitely supposed to be a space exploration vehicle (manned or un-manned, craft or vehicle, EVA which technically is a vehicle).


Would this make it more clear and narrow it down sufficiently?


Thanks

Mike

Post by prodigy // Dec 9, 2008, 11:33am

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eeeeeermmmmmm....


No. ;)

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 9, 2008, 11:39am

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Maybe I need help with this then?


I really don't see much of a difference between a "space exploration vehicle/craft" and a "ground combat vehicle" or "flying machine" or such? It is hard sometimes to not be taken wrong through type so let me make it clear I am not offened at you or rjeff's post but if you could explain the difference that I seem to be missing?


Thanks a lot, and I will extend the deadline once I get this mess fixed.


Here is my intended update:

"The topic for this SMC will be Space Exploration Vehicles or Craft.

Either manned or unmanned, fictional or not. Remember EVA is also an exploration vehicle. It doesn't have to be just a outer-space craft either it may be a planet side vehicles as well!"



Mike

Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Dec 9, 2008, 3:38pm

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Let's try and clear this up. The SMC should be for a single object, not a scene or vague concept. This is why the MMC was started up, to allow those that want to 'go bigger' to do so. It's not MikeJoel's fault for going this path, the SMC has started veering off course of late and, to quote a political buzzword from the last century, it's time to 'get back to basics'.

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 9, 2008, 3:56pm

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Ok.

Well then I need to revise but I need to make it stay inline with what Mr 3d has submitted since I do not think it fair to change it completely after someone has submitted.


So I am going to update it to a planet in our solar system. I think this should be specific enough.


I do agree with W.W.O.T.W.. Personally I have thought that the SMC was more for refining modeling ability, speed and seeing new/quicker ways to do something - while the MMC was more of a "pull it all together"/"art" contest.


I hope my decision suites all,

Mike


P.S.


Thanks prodigy and rjeff for feeling free to share your point of view, which I value.


Thanks TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb (who I think must have the longest user name here :D). Not making excuses but I did feel my first choice had been in line with past choices.

Post by prodigy // Dec 9, 2008, 6:17pm

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Mike, hope you take my comment as a joke.. ;)

So.. im gonna do the mars path finder.. few other ideas..
the Star trek spaceship... Galileo sonde.. A telescope.. a space shuttle.. the apollo 13.. a ufo... the voyager...

Post by Breech Block // Dec 10, 2008, 3:20am

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What a difference 18 months can make


Just to expand on the comments I made with my SMC submission, here are my 2 versions of the Earth half bathed in sunlight rendered 18 months apart.


What do you mean you prefer the old one. Doh! :rolleyes:

Post by nigec // Dec 10, 2008, 4:10am

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That'll teach not to visit the comments section lol.. instantly i got an idea with the original discription so i went with that, even tho it boardlined whether it was close enough on topic.. but now Its a planet? oh well

Post by TomG // Dec 10, 2008, 4:25am

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It does depend on what the community wants the speed modeling challenge to be. There are two ways to see it


1. Its a creative challenge, and just how you interpret it is part of what is being judged. Arguably though this is why the Monthly Modeling Challenge was created, for people to take a broad topic and be judged on interpretation and artistry as much as on anything else, since the SMC was (originally) intended to be purely judged on modeling alone.


2. It is (as the name suggests) purely a modeling challenge, and it is hard to compare the modeling skill in a Voyager space probe to the modeling skill in a landmass on a planet. So by leaving room for intepretation, you are no longer comparing like with like when it comes to rating it purely on modeling.



This topic has come up over the last few SMC's and hasn't started with this one - the SMC has moved from something very specific ("a screwdriver") to something more general ("a vehicle"). We definitely are seeing voting based on interpretation now, and not just on pure modeling. This is neither "right" nor "wrong", but I think it is important that the community defines just what this challenge is, and then shapes it accordingly.


So which is it? Is it just a test of modeling skill? If so, it should be VERY specific in topic so everyone is modeling pretty much the same thing and we are judging people purely on their modeling, not their artistic interpretation, humor in the scene, textures, lighting, etc. Is it a broader artistic competition, in which case interpretation and cleverness behind what you choose to model etc do count.


Once that is defined and agreed by all, then how topics are picked and what makes a good topic will become clear :)


HTH!

Tom

Post by nigec // Dec 10, 2008, 4:34am

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Hi Mike


I'm not annoyed or anything, I was aware there was discussions to narrow the topic down.. but i totally agree at what your saying about a planet.. TBH if it started off as that i probably wouldn't of even tried

For me personally i don't do normal lol

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 4:46am

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Sorry. Nigec is reffering to a comment I made that I had worried before hand that such a narrow topic as planets would end up with -1 minute models.


(BB your model is great, don't get me wrong ;) :))


I deleted this post when I found that Tom had posted at the same time with a MUCH better post that cut to the heart of it. So I decided to get rid of my post which would just have caused more reading for everyone while Tom's got it point blank.


I am composting (yes I spelled it that way on purpose) a post which I will post after this....


Mike

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 4:49am

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This topic has come up over the last few SMC's and hasn't started with this one - the SMC has moved from something very specific ("a screwdriver") to something more general ("a vehicle"). We definitely are seeing voting based on interpretation now, and not just on pure modeling. This is neither "right" nor "wrong", but I think it is important that the community defines just what this challenge is, and then shapes it accordingly.


So which is it?.......

................................

HTH!

Tom


Ok, this cuts to the bone.

I am taking the liberty (if I may) to ask prodigy to lock the current SMC topic so nothing can be posted.

I wish to place a poll on this topic in this forum and have the decision made by the community.

The poll would be:


Do you prefer the SMC (speed modeling challenge) to be

A) a challenge to modeling skills but still bases a large part of the voting on creativity, context and composition of scene. (example: topic space vehicles, in which entries are judged on the model but also on the scene, lighting and texturing)


B) a challenge that has a narrow topic in which the voting should be based only one the technical aspects on the model. (example: manual screw driver, in which the vote should be cast mostly on the wireframe "cleanness" and good texturing)


If this is acceptable then I think we could figure this out before we resume the SMC #39 in which I seem to have been so luck to destroy...


Sorry

Mike



Edited to point out that:


choice "A" would basically be a MMC with a 2-4 hour time limit. Which is fine for me.

choice "B" would probably narrow it down to where it would be very hard to get participation since one style of modeling compared to another is rather hard to judge and, ONLY in my opinion, would drive more people to the MMC or to non-entry. I do believe the SMC should be more for technical aspects but I think if you narrow it to much it will be boring.

Post by nigec // Dec 10, 2008, 7:39am

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I do this contests because they usually take me out of my comfort zone and I try to be different, to model a screwdriver for example isn't my idea of fun, its the sort of thing i'd throw together as a prop for a game


I guess there is always the arguement that the MMC is for more complex modeling, I personally have a very short attention span and i actually struggle when time isn't as much of an issue, i try to be to bl**dy clever lol


But we do need guidelines.. ideas even a planet could be twisted to some strange ideas i guess


I really liked this subject, I'm not much into out of space themes so the wide array of options really suited me :)

Post by Steinie // Dec 10, 2008, 8:25am

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In my opinion the SMC has turned into a MMC but having a shorter deadline. The challenge's original focus was the object itself and not the lighting, textures, and scene layout. All that other stuff was why we started the MMC.
Showing good modeling skills was a challenge in itself. You now have two Challenges to chose from determined by your priorities.
The SMC lost a few submitters because it did drift away from it's roots. It doesn't need clever ideas but instead an object to study.
Just my two cents.

Post by TomG // Dec 10, 2008, 9:00am

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It does depend on what you mean by "fun" :) The idea of the challenge here originally was to "challenge" (literally, in the sense of pushing and testing) your own modeling skills, so in that sense it was hard work. The fun wasnt in producing a nice piece of art, but in testing your abilities - and then in learning how others had tackled it, seeing the different modeling approaches, and comparing like with like, which could open your eyes to new ways of modeling that perhaps you hadnt thought of.


Seeing someone use tool A in a way you'd never thought of, or how they modeled something in 2 minutes that took you 20, was a great learning experience, and thats where the fun came in.


Very different though from the fun of making a clever interpretation of a topic. This one is down to the community - I am of the thought though that the SMC should be all about modeling and so as littel deviation should exist in what is modeled as is possible, and the MMC is for broader more creative stuff (and hey you can always complete your MMC in a 2 hour time limit, if you want to keep the challenge the same as here in the SMC!).


I think keeping the aims of each different, rather than just the time limit as the only difference, would be good, as different things will be shown and demonstrated and learned from each - but in the end this is community run so I leave it to the vote!


Tom

Post by Breech Block // Dec 10, 2008, 9:03am

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... I think we could figure this out before we resume the SMC #39 in which I seem to have been so luck to destroy...


Sorry

Mike



Don't worry about it Mike, this has been on the cards for quite a while now. As Tom and Steinie have already pointed out, the SMC has indeed drifted away from its roots. I think this has been because as the submissions declined, the hosts began to think of ever more creative topics in order to create wider appeal and thus entice more people to enter. To a certain degree, I also think the MMC has also changed tack slightly for exactly the same reason. As for which way the SMC should go, I'm afraid I am in two minds and think that as a competition it will always struggle to balance it's intended purpose (improving modelling skills) with a healthy rate of participation.


That all said, I must admit that of late the SMC has tended to drain a lot of my free (3D) time in that I can spend ages tinkering with the scene's composition and lighting setup. Where in reality, that same time would be far better invested in improving my actual modelling skills and perhaps, that within the same timescale, I could in fact make multiple submissions to the SMC if it were to be brought back to its roots whereupon the focus was just the model itself.

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 9:43am

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Will this suite all?

I will leave the topic as is and this SMC will continue as "A Planet" (which I imagine could be viewed from surface or space).

I will place a poll in the RoundTable area so that for the next SMC things will be more clear.


I'm afraid that isn't very fair to Nigec who has a very cool model up, but I am at a loss for what else to do.


Thanks for everyones patience and input.

Mike


P.S. If Prodigy would be willing (when he gets the time) to adjust the subjects of the SMC #39 posts to reflect "Planets of our Solar System". This will, I hope, try to reduce some of the confusion.

Post by trueBlue // Dec 10, 2008, 10:02am

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Why not keep it as you intended originaly?
A Space craft/vehicle or any other way you might want to call it.
After all it was the Winner's choice.

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 10:32am

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Your all trying to drive me crazy aren't you :rolleyes:


If I ever "win" again I think I will just pass the privilege of choice to second place.... unless I like that person ;)


Mike

Post by Breech Block // Dec 10, 2008, 10:42am

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If I ever "win" again I think I will just pass the privilege of choice to second place.... unless I like that person ;)


LOL - Your not having an easy time of it are you Mike. Look, it it makes things any easier, I'd be quite happy to withdraw my entry as it seems to be the only planet so far. Either that or I can use my 1 hour 59 mins 55 sec remaining modeling time to add a space shuttle or satelite. Let me know, or just pm me.

Post by trueBlue // Dec 10, 2008, 10:48am

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I was sad to see your already created SMC scrutinized. This would have been better brought up on a future SMC and not the one that was already created. I can not help but think it was mostly a miscommunication.

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 10:51am

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I haven't the energy to change the topic again. I think I hold a record. 1 win and 2 choices.... working for a 3rd? lol

All the models are great. I'm afraid Nigec is getting a rather raw deal though. I am really sorry about that. It really is a great model.


Mike

Post by MikeJoel // Dec 10, 2008, 10:54am

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I was sad to see your already created SMC scrutinized. This would have been better brought up on a future SMC and not the one that was already created. I can not help but think it was mostly a miscommunication.


The poll won't effect this SMC anymore. This SMC is now set and I am not changing it again. If it needs to change I think it best just to hand it off :D


I was hoping the poll would help out the next winner and the future of the SMC. I set it for 7 days so it will end the same time this SMC is ending.

I imagine someone could create a new type of contest, but I don't know if the community could support 3.


Mike

Post by nigec // Dec 10, 2008, 11:57am

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I'm afraid Nigec is getting a rather raw deal though. I am really sorry about that. It really is a great model


Mike don't worry about it ;) Iim not about to start throwing my toys out of my pram or anything.. it was a fun model to do, i don't enter to win.. mainly because my attempt to create the next challenge will probably crash and burn 10 times worse lol we'd have a mass walk out if i tried!


Anyway to save arguements i've took it out of the challenge and i'll see if i can come up with something else :D


Theres stuff i would like to do to the guy, like get his hands better, my own Enterprise etc so i'll put him on the "to do pile"

Post by transient // Dec 10, 2008, 3:56pm

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Perhaps keeping the smc to a "wireframe only" submission will clean things up. Let people do the beauty renders after the comp and post them in the image gallery.


I don't have a problem with the topic chosen. It is winner's choice, if you want to choose, best way is to enter.....

Post by Mr. 3d // Dec 10, 2008, 6:59pm

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I didn't mean to create any controversies. I'm just enjoying myself.... and submitting what I can contribute in hopes that someone else might appreciate what I've done. I, myself, enjoy creating scenes. I understand that the SMC is supposed to be centered on complex modeling at a minimal time, but I'm just not there yet (a complex model on a grey backdrop)...........So, I submit what I can do in a short period of time. It's not about the votes for me, as it is the contribution and the art.:)
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