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Graphics Cards
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Graphics Cards // Tech Forum
Post by thescottishbloke // Sep 21, 2008, 7:51am
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thescottishbloke
Total Posts: 56
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Hi,
Can anyone recommend a graphics card that would drastically increase the speed of the render in truespace and doesnt cause any run-time errors? I currently have the ATI mobility radeon X1400. I was going to upgrade my internal memory from 1gb to 2gb. Should that help also??
Thanks,
:banana: |
Post by splinters // Sep 21, 2008, 7:54am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Is this for a laptop or desktop?
Either way, most cards will not increase the actual 'offline' render time but will increas productivity by making workspace run better as it is realtime DX.
It would seem Nvidia has better quality graphics in tS7.6 (there is a thread showing some artefacts/blocky shadows with an Ati card). |
Post by brotherx // Sep 22, 2008, 12:41am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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I had the same artifacts/blocky graphics thing with my NVidia card/drivers and not seen any issues with my ATI ever since I switched. If you're using an offline renderer however it shouldn't make any difference. I used to be a big fan of NVidia but their support really sucks and they are losing money big time just now.
if you get a 9 series Geforce or one of the new 48x0 series ATI cards, both will offer similar performance. the 4850 being good value for money and the ati ones are the only ones supporting DirectX10.1 for now. Mind you, the newer nvidia support physx. Of course, unless you're playing the latest games, for now at least, the differences are unimportant. I think the ATI 4850 is a good bit cheaper than the 9800 cards at the moment, selling for about £120-£130.
If it is a laptop then you'll be very limited in which video card upgrades you can get, if you even can. |
Post by splinters // Sep 22, 2008, 1:38am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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The blocky issue was, I believe, posted by RichLevy a week or so ago and confirmed by Tom grimes.
As for cost, mt 9800GT was £99 at PC World about a month ago where the 4850 was £149...I know they are about the same price now and the latest Nvidia drivers (with PhysX support) are pretty good.
I just need a card than runs a lot less than 100 degrees!!...:rolleyes: |
Post by brotherx // Sep 22, 2008, 1:53am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Could be an issue with the new catalyst drivers I suppose. I've not seen the card above 80c but they do run hot compared to nvidia cards. Still, my whole system doesn't get about 40c even when flat out and it's virtually silent so it doesn't make a difference. card is quiet too.
I was in PC World in galway and the nvidias were about 50 euro more. Wouldn't buy from there anyway - only good for consumables and laptops.
Saw the 9800 gto in maplin for 130 euro...but they are about 30% slower than a GT.
I still have an almost complete PC lying around in parts...the NVidia card, 7900gt, is only good for XP tho...just doesn't like vista. |
Post by TomG // Sep 22, 2008, 3:05am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The issue is hardware soft shadows - ATI cards do not support this, NVIDIA cards do. You can find the checkbox in the HW Settings, and it will be greyed out for ATI cards. The comparison images in the thread show that an NVIDIA with HW Shadows disabled gives the same results as an ATI - in those instances, much higher values are required in the spotlight settings to get smooth shadows (resulting in more demand on the GPU, so less performance). With HW shadows you can use less demanding settings for shadow map size and get much better results visually, resulting in much faster performance as well as the better visual look.
BTW, you can get 8800s for $100 or less now (the 9800 isn't significantly different that I know of, the specs sure read the same) so that puts it into the same price bracket as the ATI cards mentioned here. I'm still using my 8800 and getting great performance (even though its only a 312Mb card and not a 512Mb or 1Gb one), so I can recommend those.
tS has had some extra driver issues due to running DX8 and DX9 at the same time (ie Modeler and workspace) which resulted in NVIDIA drivers being problematic for tS for some driver releases. The current ones seem fine though!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Sep 22, 2008, 4:48am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Have to say I haven't noticed much difference but then I've not really been paying much attention to the shadows...
Where is the thread? I've been trying to find it. |
Post by TomG // Sep 22, 2008, 5:06am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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It's here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6250&highlight=hardware+shadow&page=2
As Dele says "The second image shows better shadows with the ATI card. I had to double the shadow map size to 2048 and set the filtering quality to 3. This is much better, but still doesn't look as good as the Nvidia card did with half the map size. Really, I have to bump the map size up to 4096 to get really good shadows."
Meaning you can use a quarter the size shadow map with HW Shadow filtering on than with it off.
I did tests that confirmed I saw exactly the same as Dele's ATI card when I switched off the HW Shadow Filtering on my NVIDIA.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by brotherx // Sep 22, 2008, 6:13am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Ah. Funny I never noticed that before. Perhaps it was because it ran so badly on my nvidia machine that I didn't bother using it at home too often.
It wasn't truespace really, just everything...couldn't change modes, couldn't switch to portrait, couldn't play nearly every game i tried...loads of stuff really.
I really do suspect it was the card but the drivers had to have something to do with it.
My machine seems to handle the higher maps just fine... |
Post by W!ZARD // Sep 23, 2008, 2:15am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I have a Geforce 8600, 512 gb and tS runs like a dream - realtime shadows work very well. |
Post by Délé // Sep 23, 2008, 3:54am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I just want to clarify that the ATI HD 4850 card that I got does work great. Even though I have to quadruple the shadow map sizes in certain real-time scenes, it still runs them smooth as silk. So increasing the shadows to a good quality doesn't bog down this card at all.
My main concern is that I like to make interactive scenes for use online. Making online scenes requires that you try to keep everything as lean and multiuser friendly as possible. So while having large maps works perfectly fine on my ATI card, it might tax other peoples cards too much, and needlessly if their card can do hardware shadow filtering.
My ATI card does work VERY well otherwise. Way better than my old card. I haven't yet had a single driver problem as I did constantly with my old Nvidia card. That's the main reason I went with ATI this time. So it's a bit of a trade off if you plan on creating online scenes. Otherwise it's nice having a good card with stable drivers. :)
The card does run pretty hot though, so you would want a case with good airflow.
Can anyone recommend a graphics card that would drastically increase the speed of the render in truespace and doesnt cause any run-time errors? I currently have the ATI mobility radeon X1400. I was going to upgrade my internal memory from 1gb to 2gb. Should that help also??
I'll let someone else comment on what system components will increase your offline rendering power. I know graphics cards have a lot to do with real-time rendering, but I'm not sure how offline rendering works. Either way, I would recommend that you increase your RAM to 2gb. RAM is pretty cheap these days and it's always good to have as much as you can. :) |
Post by brotherx // Sep 23, 2008, 6:41am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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My main concern is that I like to make interactive scenes for use online. Making online scenes requires that you try to keep everything as lean and multiuser friendly as possible. So while having large maps works perfectly fine on my ATI card, it might tax other peoples cards too much, and needlessly if their card can do hardware shadow filtering.
I guess you just have to find a happy medium - you know, something that isn't going to suck but also isn't going to bog the system down.
My ATI card does work VERY well otherwise. Way better than my old card. I haven't yet had a single driver problem as I did constantly with my old Nvidia card. That's the main reason I went with ATI this time. So it's a bit of a trade off if you plan on creating online scenes. Otherwise it's nice having a good card with stable drivers. :)
The card does run pretty hot though, so you would want a case with good airflow.
I agree here also. I checked this morning after running some heavy 3D stuff and was surprised to find the card at a mere 65 degrees C...which, I have to say is the same as I used to get on my nvidia card. I do have 2 12cm silent fans at the back of my case but I actually stripped all the other ones out because they were just being noisy and not doing anything. I've seen it at about 80C but I've seen my old card at that too...
I'll let someone else comment on what system components will increase your offline rendering power. I know graphics cards have a lot to do with real-time rendering, but I'm not sure how offline rendering works. Either way, I would recommend that you increase your RAM to 2gb. RAM is pretty cheap these days and it's always good to have as much as you can. :)
Get a good solid steel case, it's heavier but also keeps cooler than aluminium or plastic and is also more sturdy. Try and get something that can take 12cm fans as thet are generally quieter with higher air thruput - also get a stealth fan if you can otherwise it will be noisy. Make sure you have a nice airflow through the case and get a replacement cooler for your CPU. I have a quad 2.66 and even after hours for working it hard it sits at around 35c with a Arctic Cooler 7 Pro (they cost around 20 pounds). Zalman coolers are also pretty good but about twice the price. I spent around 220 pounds in total on the motherboard and processor - a gigabyte board (GA-EP35-DS3R) for around £70 and it is pretty good, loads of USB ports and 8 SATA interally, ideal for adding storage capacity. For memory, get 4gb min and go 64 bit for OS. You can get 4Gb of decent ram from crucial for under £100. So, basically, you should be able to put a kick-ass PC together for around £600. |
Post by thescottishbloke // Sep 24, 2008, 9:28am
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thescottishbloke
Total Posts: 56
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Its for a laptop. Does anyone know if it easy to swap a ATI X1400 mobility radeon in a dell inspiration 6400. Wheres a good place to get a new Nvida laptop card?
Thanks,
:jumpy: |
Post by noko // Sep 24, 2008, 10:22am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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I use both a 8800 GTX 768mb in Vista 64 and an ATI HD2600 Pro 512mb in Vista 32. By far the ATI machine is more stable in tS. I've been plague with Nvidia Dll problems, stopped render warning in DX view with the 8800 GTX. While it has improved with more recent drivers it is still very much present. Yes I agree Nvidia shadowing gives a benefit but with higher settings both look about the same for me. I would recommend ATI over Nvidia from my prospective but both can work well with tS.
I would say the best bang for your buck presently is a Radeon HD 4850 512mb version. |
Post by noko // Sep 24, 2008, 11:53am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Did quick test of shadows using my ATI card with 512x512 pixel shadow maps (3 spotlights) and using Poisson filtering with good results both with solid shadowing and with Alpha shadowing. Even with lower settings ATI can produce good results from my tests using Poisson. As for speed even my HD2600 Pro has no problem moving stuff around in the Workspace even with more complex models. |
Post by brotherx // Sep 25, 2008, 5:30am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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Its for a laptop. Does anyone know if it easy to swap a ATI X1400 mobility radeon in a dell inspiration 6400. Wheres a good place to get a new Nvida laptop card?
Thanks,
:jumpy:
Dunno if you can...if you can, you'll need to get it from dell and if the laptop is perhaps 18 months old, probably won't be much better than what you have.
It all depends on how much you paid in the first place...
from the support website it shows Nvidia 7300 go drivers but that could be on-board and not upgradable...best bet is to phone dell. You're probably looking at a new laptop really. |
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