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It would be nice to share trick
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It would be nice to share trick // Roundtable
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 2:02am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Marcels intentions behind it are good ones and its not that little trick
he showed us ... I see a problem of this forum in falling back into....
a 100 ways of doing it another way(with 10 year oldtools) ...and avoid spelling out WHAT we want the tools to look like and do.....thats the point why I get so nervous about this thread. We have talented coders and an Sdk has very deep access to the core of TS.
We got to use our time now on the development of these ... because if not
Truespace WILL be dead......
The Yafray project is a good example of how it can be avoided thanks to
our fantastic developers.
By the way using a twist is used very often in nurbs modeling to get
these kind of shapes....
Peter
thank Steinie, transient, v3rd3, brotherx, nez and others for reply.
rayman, I agree, of course, for new tools and i thank the talented coders and Sdk I like nurbs but TS does not convert a polygon from nurbs in an acceptable manner. Waiting to see if the workspace to manage nurbs.
maybe you think some people are backwards? I do not think that using the latest tool in fashion is essential for everyone. why do you get so nervous with that point?
As for tricks, it's a feeling more human than technical. And it often was on this basis that a significant technological advances are. I just wanted to make a nice thread and it becomes a drama.
Here is a sample made with the blend tool (sorry to use old tool). |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 2:12am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Hi,
Not sitting in front of trueSpace at the moment to test this, but when you say blend tool Marcel do you mean bend tool?. Its just that it looks like model space and I thought (unless you bought it separately) there was only a blend tool in Workspace:). This of course may just expose my ignorance and then you can call me WasteofSpace..;)
PS I appreciate your desire to show the trick (and I admit I didn't know about it) and it is great to have a different perspective on using the software.
I also understand Raymans concern for the development of better tools...
Oups sorry it is Bend. I agree with your comment about Rayman. It is not a reason to be nervous. Just a problem of misunderstanding or susceptibility. I don't know. :confused: |
Post by Khai // Feb 6, 2009, 2:57am
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Khai
Total Posts: 56
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Marcels intentions behind it are good ones and its not that little trick
he showed us ... I see a problem of this forum in falling back into....
then start your own forum.
you are NOT the boss here. you do not get to call what ppl can post or not. now I'm beginning to find you to be very offensive in your manner. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 3:50am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Everyone has the right to his opinions, but no offense, remain positive and friendly towards rayman. :) |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2009, 4:21am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Everyone has the right to his opinions, but no offense, remain positive and friendly towards rayman. :)
Thank you Marcel I just showed different ways of making
a shape thats all ..... ! we cant learn from each other if we dont
talk about it ..
Peter |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 4:31am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Thank you Marcel I just showed different ways of making
a shape thats all ..... ! we cant learn from each other if we dont
talk about it ..
Peter
A good new. make love no war ;)
here is an example that can give some ideas for futur tools. I do that a few minutes ago. |
Post by transient // Feb 6, 2009, 4:38am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I haven't seen anything in this thread so far that couldn't be made in truespace. At first maybe not as easily, but definitely cleanly and accurately.
Truespace's current forte is mesh modeling, and I would much rather see improvements made to these tools than any upgrades to the nurbs tools. This is a niche area at best and is already saturated with quality apps (rhino, amapi, moi, formz, solid thinking, viacad, maya - and there are probably others I've forgotten).
If truespace is to survive the current hard times, it needs to focus on making the best tools of it's type, not passable versions of better apps imo. This is what is driving the success of 3dcoat, Silo and Modo, for example.
Viacad is only $99, and is a very capable nurbs modeler - ahead of anything I can envision for truespace in the near future. Not that truespace nurbs are bad, especially with clinton's plug-ins. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 5:00am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I haven't seen anything in this thread so far that couldn't be made in truespace. At first maybe not as easily, but definitely cleanly and accurately.
Truespace's current forte is mesh modeling, and I would much rather see improvements made to these tools than any upgrades to the nurbs tools. This is a niche area at best and is already saturated with quality apps (rhino, amapi, moi, formz, solid thinking, viacad, maya - and there are probably others I've forgotten).
If truespace is to survive the current hard times, it needs to focus on making the best tools of it's type, not passable versions of better apps imo. This is what is driving the success of 3dcoat, Silo and Modo, for example.
Viacad is only $99, and is a very capable nurbs modeler - ahead of anything I can envision for truespace in the near future. Not that truespace nurbs are bad, especially with clinton's plug-ins.
It is a good analysis. I prefer a good environnement tool (polygonal) than a lot of tool not very good in the same soft. It is because i don't use nurbs in TS since a long time. There are other soft for that. The real problem (for my job) in TS is the bad conversion from nurbs to polygones. In this forum i show work made ONLY with TS. I have other soft but the interface of TS is what i prefer. The unification of the two ts interfaces (worlspace and model) will be crucial to its future. |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2009, 5:05am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Truespace's current forte is mesh modeling, and I would much rather see improvements made to these tools than any upgrades to the nurbs tools.
Well Transient I´m not very far away from what you say here and allthough
I´very much like nurbs modeling what I´d say as improvements for
the tools would be to have better ways of placing and snapping.
The tools dont have to be reinvented but it must be easier to exactly fit
things in rather then eyeballing things in.Especially if you want to array something on top of something else for example.Or in case of Marcels example to being able to position the bending tool at the right point to make a clean bend around 360 degr. |
Post by transient // Feb 6, 2009, 5:18am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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The real problem (for my job) in TS is the bad conversion from nurbs to polygones.
Yes, I agree they're far from ideal for this reason. I did some experimentation with the new quadrify tool but no luck. I think it was on the moi forums (maybe not) that I saw a discussion about the difficulties of converting parametric models to quad meshes.
If truespace had a tool which could import native nurb formats and convert them to quads, I think it would be immensely popular. It may even be a dark horse that truespace could build a new community on.
Well Transient I´m not very far away from what you say here and allthough I´very much like nurbs modeling what I´d say as improvements for
the tools would be to have better ways of placing and snapping.
No arguments here. I haven't used sketchup but I've read that the alignment and snapping tools are top notch. Another app I use (shade) is excellent in this way too. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 5:19am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I like nurbs modeling but this does not seem a priority for microsoft (i don't know really). Maybe, it is a problem with real time? Do you know something about it? |
Post by transient // Feb 6, 2009, 5:27am
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I remember at one point that nurbs were a part of the vrml spec, but I have no idea about direct3d. Perhaps marketing workspace's real-time aspects to the cad crowd is something that Caligari/ Microsoft should consider.
Being able to display rhino (etc.) models in Caligari's shared spaces is something I imagine many designers would be excited about. I'm not sure industrial 3d is on calgari's agenda, though. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 5:32am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I have recently a thread for import-export with TS and it gives me a real concern. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 5:42am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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If you have news infos about import-export, please post reply here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=7730 |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2009, 5:44am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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If you read the letter to the captain thread I have more the once asked for 3dm support plus in the feature suggestions., I made a search but couldnt find where.
I never had problems with mesh export using moi bec ause the converter is good and the quad devide in truespace does devide the meshes if you import via luuv as ngons.
But if you export from there with tris and quad i never had any problems
not even when using the mehes in Zbrush.
Most of the props that are made with nurbs arent rigged anyway.
I think it boils down to the money thing right nowI guess but there is lots
of potential.
Theres much coming up with T-spline and nurbs also...
Peter |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 6, 2009, 5:45am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Here's a quick example of a machine metal screw using AI profile and lathe function (lathed 360 in tS). A subdivided one is on the right, unsubdivided on the left. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 5:57am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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the quad devide in truespace does devide the meshes if you import via luuv as ngons.
Peter
I don't know the way to do that. I have alway a triangulated objet when i convert a ts nurb. can you explain to me what can i do to have square polygons?. Is luuv a plugins? where can i find it? |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 6:04am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Here's a quick example of a machine metal screw using AI profile and lathe function (lathed 360 in tS). A subdivided one is on the right, unsubdivided on the left.
are you sure you have a single spiral relief? it looks like several parallel reliefs. I can see if you are right. |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 6, 2009, 6:15am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I don't know the way to do that. I have alway a triangulated objet when i convert a ts nurb. can you explain to me what can i do to have square polygons?. Is luuv a plugins? where can i find it?
@ Marcel : Luuv is a plugin that lets you import and export meshes in the obj.
format and it does that even with n-gons !
The problem with the nurbs in Ts IS that it converts only to triangles which
apps like Moi 3d do not do you have the option to what kind of mesh
you want to export to plus you can have a certain amount of control on how dense those meshes should be.
So what I want TS to do in the future is exactly that !
Thats what my "fight" is all about..... its not against anybody its against
very specific drawbacks.......
Heres the examples of the ngon export and the quad tool in workspace |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 6, 2009, 6:22am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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are you sure you have a single spiral relief? it looks like several parallel reliefs. I can see if you are right.
Unsure what you mean by "relief." |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 6:43am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Unsure what you mean by "relief."
I don't know the name of this part of the screw. It is a real spiral or circles? |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 6:47am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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@ Marcel : Luuv is a plugin that lets you import and export meshes in the obj.
--------
The problem with the nurbs in Ts IS that it converts only to triangles
-----------
So what I want TS to do in the future is exactly that !
I have exactly the same wish. It is the reason i can't use nurbs in TS :(
Thank for luuv infos |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 6, 2009, 7:17am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I don't know the name of this part of the screw. It is a real spiral or circles?
Ah, those are called threads. Yes they are circular in design.
It's not a true inclined plane as in a spiral form. |
Post by marcel // Feb 6, 2009, 7:40am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Ah, those are called threads. Yes they are circular in design.
It's not a true inclined plane as in a spiral form.
OK
It was the subjet of the example at the beginning (a screw or anything else but a spiral on a cylinder in ONE volume AND made with TS). Also It is easy to do the spiral with sweep tool but you need to merge with a cylinder (see image below). Or to use another soft... The "trick" was the 45 degrees and the use of bend tool to resolve the problem in TS and in THESE conditions. ;)
But this is not a competition and see how each works is interesting. :) |
Post by v3rd3 // Feb 6, 2009, 4:21pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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I think Marcel intended this thread to become a "living" tutorial where artists share technique.
Marcel, and those who care to, please keep sharing your info on techniques you use. I and others who crave this type of information from experienced practitioners will be captivated.
I think the political discussion regarding features and improvements already has another thread. I understand everyone's frustration with the current situation and that many are struggling with their decision on future use of TS. I do not believe that it is necessary to turn every discussion into a jab at either Caligari's decision to contain information or all of the things we can think of that TS is not, or the things we know it could do better. Threads exist where these topics should be addressed.
Marcel's intent in this thread is to share information which has not been previously available and to encourage growth in the community through sharing information.
I do not see a problem with 5 different ways to skin a cat showing up in this thread (unless there is a specific thread for uv mapping I am not aware of). It is the readers discretion of whether they choose to use one or more of the techniques shown.
Constructive critiques would always be welcome as well but ensure they have a reasonable explanation as well. This will avoid accusations of flaming those willing to share their knowledge. |
Post by marcel // Feb 7, 2009, 12:01am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I think Marcel intended this thread to become a "living" tutorial where artists share technique.
Yes, but it is difficult to control a thread. I wanted something different from a tutorial. I would like to share personnal touch about use of TS. Something more human than technical. but it's my fault. I start with something that resembled a technical problem to solve.
Sure, it was not really a problem for me to resolve this simple problem. I knew many other ways. what I wanted to show using an inappropriate tool, you can find a new use for other things. And that is where the personality of each differs. Personality is not in a tutorial :)
The discus with Rayman was nervous but interesting and would have deserved a separate thread just for her :D |
Post by Igor K Handel // Feb 7, 2009, 12:37am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Agree 100% with all of v3rd3's post.
Thanks Marcel I have learnt several things from this thread!
Although not strictly a tutorial, I suspect this thread would benefit from being in the tutorium section. Its going to get buried in this forum, which would be a shame.
If I wanted to learn different workflows or methods to achieve something a series in the Tutorium would be the first place I would expect to find the thread. Ok there will also be discussions within the thread but overall it's sharing of techniques, which is an informal tut?
Perhaps an admin might like to comment on this?
Regards
IK |
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