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Jun 30, 2001, 1:34am

I post this here so that all can be aware and for those who may not know
better, be cautioned! I will be pasting content from e-mail with AW.
Since AW has failed to make a website for bingo winners to renew their
worlds, Noelle suggests e-mailing her the credit card information! NO
ONE should ever request that you send them credit card information via
E-Mail! It is rule #1 in common sense! SSL=security encryption E-mail
is one of the most open way there is to gather information.

I then asked for an 800 number since I did not feel one should have to
pay to phone and give them money. Noelle then proceeded to reply with
what is as close to what could be labeled corporate sociopathic nature .
Excuses rather than apology. Excuse rather than time table of when AW
may have a working secure page for these renewals, hell, they give
worlds away each week. Don't they realize those need renewals? But AW
again is too cheap to join the millions of companies out there who
provide their customers with toll free phone contact. There are so many
companies out there who offer their 800 number for tech support. AW
however makes you pay to phone! She also failed to mention anything
regarding the two citizenship's I would have coming to me as well.
Typical of AW to ignore the majority of the question I am beginning to
see.

Here are the words from AW corporate headquarters:

My Message to them:

----- Original Message -----
From: Daffy Duck (by way of "Fletch at AWSupport"
<fletch at activeworlds.com>)
To: tom at activeworlds.com
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:45 AM
Subject: World renewl probs

Hello,

I went to renew the world that I won at Bingo but the
site said "contact AW, unable to determine free cits"
The world is a P-20 which I guess owes me 2 free cits
when I pay you the $40 to renew it since I never got
them when I first won the world. How do I get to
renew it if your site won't allow me? The world name
is "-------". I don't feel I should have to phone and
pay the long distance charges and I didn't see an 800
number available.

Looking forward to your reply.

AW's first reply:

From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>


$40 for renewal. Please send your credit card information and I will
process your order form here as there is not a primary renewal page for
contest winners.

Sincerely,

Noelle Caterino
Customer Service
Activeworlds.com Inc.
95 Parker St.
Newburyport, MA 01950

www.activeworlds.com

*(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND
ACCURATE RESPONSE)*


Hello Noelle,

Thank you for responding but surely you cannot be
serious and ask me to send you credit card information
over an un-secure e-mail! It is not right for me to
have to pay long distance either. AWCOM needs to
address these serious issues, it is business.

From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>
To: "Daffy Duck" <>


Hello -

As with many other businesses, Activeworlds does not hold a toll free
number
as we offer other methods of ordering and customer resolution. Among
these
are the mail, e-mail, and online purchasing. Other customers have safely

sent their card information for their purchases. Should you choose to do
so
you may reply to this mail (or start a new mail). If not you may send a
personal US check or international money order to the address below.

Sincerely,

Noelle Caterino
Customer Service
Activeworlds.com Inc.
95 Parker St.
Newburyport, MA 01950

www.activeworlds.com

*(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND

ACCURATE RESPONSE)*



I have always considered that security concerns with AW have been ZERO
on their priority list. Here is actual proof with the Corporate SEAL so
to speak.

Let's wake up people! Or does AW wish to use this tactic because it
knows many users are children? Children perhaps may not know better? I
know myself and another who have had problems of AW overcharging credit
cards and not refunding or providing services paid for. Anyone else out
there with same problem???

Jun 30, 2001, 10:58am

That is just pathetic AWCI doesn't even have a secure server for bingo world renewals. Why would it matter if it's a bingo world anyway? World renewal is world renewal! It's just a matter of distinguishing the world as a bingo-won world. <shrug>

Stop acting lame, AWCI, and stop treating your users like shit!

[View Quote] > I post this here so that all can be aware and for those who may not know
> better, be cautioned! I will be pasting content from e-mail with AW.
> Since AW has failed to make a website for bingo winners to renew their
> worlds, Noelle suggests e-mailing her the credit card information! NO
> ONE should ever request that you send them credit card information via
> E-Mail! It is rule #1 in common sense! SSL=security encryption E-mail
> is one of the most open way there is to gather information.
>
> I then asked for an 800 number since I did not feel one should have to
> pay to phone and give them money. Noelle then proceeded to reply with
> what is as close to what could be labeled corporate sociopathic nature .
> Excuses rather than apology. Excuse rather than time table of when AW
> may have a working secure page for these renewals, hell, they give
> worlds away each week. Don't they realize those need renewals? But AW
> again is too cheap to join the millions of companies out there who
> provide their customers with toll free phone contact. There are so many
> companies out there who offer their 800 number for tech support. AW
> however makes you pay to phone! She also failed to mention anything
> regarding the two citizenship's I would have coming to me as well.
> Typical of AW to ignore the majority of the question I am beginning to
> see.
>
> Here are the words from AW corporate headquarters:
>
> My Message to them:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daffy Duck (by way of "Fletch at AWSupport"
> <fletch at activeworlds.com>)
> To: tom at activeworlds.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:45 AM
> Subject: World renewl probs
>
> Hello,
>
> I went to renew the world that I won at Bingo but the
> site said "contact AW, unable to determine free cits"
> The world is a P-20 which I guess owes me 2 free cits
> when I pay you the $40 to renew it since I never got
> them when I first won the world. How do I get to
> renew it if your site won't allow me? The world name
> is "-------". I don't feel I should have to phone and
> pay the long distance charges and I didn't see an 800
> number available.
>
> Looking forward to your reply.
>
> AW's first reply:
>
> From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>
>
> $40 for renewal. Please send your credit card information and I will
> process your order form here as there is not a primary renewal page for
> contest winners.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noelle Caterino
> Customer Service
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
> *(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND
> ACCURATE RESPONSE)*
>
> Hello Noelle,
>
> Thank you for responding but surely you cannot be
> serious and ask me to send you credit card information
> over an un-secure e-mail! It is not right for me to
> have to pay long distance either. AWCOM needs to
> address these serious issues, it is business.
>
> From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>
> To: "Daffy Duck" <>
>
> Hello -
>
> As with many other businesses, Activeworlds does not hold a toll free
> number
> as we offer other methods of ordering and customer resolution. Among
> these
> are the mail, e-mail, and online purchasing. Other customers have safely
>
> sent their card information for their purchases. Should you choose to do
> so
> you may reply to this mail (or start a new mail). If not you may send a
> personal US check or international money order to the address below.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noelle Caterino
> Customer Service
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
> *(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND
>
> ACCURATE RESPONSE)*
>
> I have always considered that security concerns with AW have been ZERO
> on their priority list. Here is actual proof with the Corporate SEAL so
> to speak.
>
> Let's wake up people! Or does AW wish to use this tactic because it
> knows many users are children? Children perhaps may not know better? I
> know myself and another who have had problems of AW overcharging credit
> cards and not refunding or providing services paid for. Anyone else out
> there with same problem???

Jun 30, 2001, 11:27am

Some Q&A - Tech Talk - June 16th
icey: what about the browser secure access to renewals
Mike Zimmer: Yeah, anyone anywhere could get your IP at anytime really
Gamer: I can shift with num llock on
Mike Zimmer: but thats why i like my dynamic IP
Roland: whoa...secure access to renewals?
Gamer: same here
Builderz: Ima is correct. You SHOULD think of your IP as being displayed
over you just like names are displayed over people here in AW. =)
Linn: hummm
icey: yes like renewing citizenship
Lanezeri: yea Roland.. your whole renewal online form works but this thing
in the browser sucks..
Mike Zimmer: I never said my name in AW *Notices Cit Name*
JohnF: what names are shown over peoples avatars? OMG I NEVER KNEW
Roland: what about it?
JohnF: hehe
M u n k u y: if people would just invest in firewall programs we wouldn't
have so many problems like that
icey: is that totally same as the web page access?
Lanezeri: It wouldn't work..
Lanezeri: M u n k u y.. firewalls don't stop everyone..
Goober King: Ahh, but that would require you to have some semblance of
intelligence, Munk... AWCom doesn't want those kinds of users :P
Builderz: www.zonealarm.com - Great freeware firewall progra,
Sage.: just drop the tg program all together,,,people can provide their own
IM
Wizard Myrddin: should invest in a on line ordering for world upgrades
M u n k u y: I know they don't.. but it's a start
Mike Zimmer: You have to get a WaterWall
Roland: I'm lost...what's wrong with the renewal dialog box...
Builderz: LOL, Mike
M u n k u y: without one at all it's like running around naked
Kyle 1: Does anyone know the URL for Eep's AWImprovements page?????????
icey: it's good..i was only asking about the security
JohnF: i followed roland and im lost too
Mauz: is renewal box same level of security as https
icey: :)
M u n k u y: atleast with a bit of cover your provided some protection :)
Goober King: Geez, Kyle, he's only mentioned it 5,000 times
Mike Zimmer: I havent had to renew yet, so i dont know
Wizard Myrddin: sending cc details in emails is not a aceptable way of
bussiness
Kyle 1: sorry....I didnt know...lol
Lanezeri: It timed out EVERY time I tried.. I emailed Support Facter was
nice and forwarded it to BIlling and then Noelle (very nice) was helping me
in every way possible.. finally directed me to the online renewal and that
worked..
Roland: the register/renewal box encrypts the transaction, although it's not
the same encryption that https uses (SSL)
Builderz: Hmm... =./
icey: less?
Kyle 1: seriously ...does anyone know? lol
M u n k u y: it encrypts it by spelling everything backwards..lol
Mike Zimmer: LOL
Roland: Lane...that is not a common problem...and it was probably due to an
issue at the bank, not with the dialog
SupaFly: *s*
icey: less than SSL?
Roland: I dunno...define "less"...
Lanezeri: lets kill the bank then
icey: less secure?
Builderz: Does it use a form of XOR, Roland? =)
JohnF: now i can find credit card info by making a prog to connect to aw
server and make it all forwards
JohnF: HEHE
M u n k u y: I would kill the bank.. but they have all my money so it's not
a good idea
Lanezeri: tru
Kyle 1: n/m ....I found it
Roland: Builderz, pretty much all encryption does, to my knowledge
MrGrimm: There will be forms for web based cit buying/renewal soon .. w/ ssl

Roland: something to keep in mind about credit cards and encryption
Wizard Myrddin: and to ug worlds Mr Grimm
M u n k u y: John.. if you want credit card numbers that bad just get a
generator
icey: yes it'd be nice
MrGrimm: the world buying/renewal forms are already online
JohnF: yea, that we should send all money by cheque
Goober King: afk, dinner calls *logs*
M u n k u y: .. or become a waiter and write them down when people give them
to you..lol
Roland: when you use your credit card to buy something online, the odds that
the people you are buying stuff from are going to steal your card, or that
someone is going to hack into their server and steal your card, are about
10,000 to 100,000 times greater
Mike Zimmer: or buy the bot "Anarchist's Cookbook"
Wizard Myrddin: yes but not for upgrading a world
Mike Zimmer: book*
Roland: than someone happening to sniff your transaction as it goes by over
the net and stealing it that way
JohnF: not if you buy from my company, hehe, jk
MrGrimm: for world upgrading you have to wait until the world is within 30
days of expiring
M u n k u y: Think about it.. what's safer. .128 bit online transactions..
or handing your card to some punk waiter who wlaks off with it for a few
minutes?
icey: is that same % with all kind of encryptions?
Wizard Myrddin: ok I wait a yesr
Roland: IMO, this extreme paranoia about whether the transaction itself is
encrypted, or how "well" it is encrypted, is a waste of time...that's not
where the risk is
JohnF: no you dont mrgrimm
Wizard Myrddin: before UG
M u n k u y: .. r writing it down on paper and dropping it in a mailbox for
mail-order
MrGrimm: then the world renewal form will allow you to upgrade/downgrade the
world size/users
icey: why are you thinking so?
SupaFly: one shot cc numbers would be better
Wizard Myrddin: right
Lanezeri: The risk is the damn Billing people asking for my CC number..
JohnF: I agree with roland
M u n k u y: Supa.. rpblem with one-time CC numbers is repeated transactions

icey: where do you think the risk is?
M u n k u y: like for you ISP.. you want to have to go back and enter a new
credit-card number every month
Roland: icey...I just said...you are most likely to have your credit card
number stolen by someone working for the business that you bought something
from
SupaFly: the proble with reg cc's repeated transactions without your
permission
Roland: or else, from someone hacking into their computers and stealing it
from their records
icey: rather than from a transaction?
Roland: that's how 99.99% of credit card numbers are stolen
Roland: yes, rather than the transaction itself


[View Quote] > I post this here so that all can be aware and for those who may not know
> better, be cautioned! I will be pasting content from e-mail with AW.
> Since AW has failed to make a website for bingo winners to renew their
> worlds, Noelle suggests e-mailing her the credit card information! NO
> ONE should ever request that you send them credit card information via
> E-Mail! It is rule #1 in common sense! SSL=security encryption E-mail
> is one of the most open way there is to gather information.
>
> I then asked for an 800 number since I did not feel one should have to
> pay to phone and give them money. Noelle then proceeded to reply with
> what is as close to what could be labeled corporate sociopathic nature .
> Excuses rather than apology. Excuse rather than time table of when AW
> may have a working secure page for these renewals, hell, they give
> worlds away each week. Don't they realize those need renewals? But AW
> again is too cheap to join the millions of companies out there who
> provide their customers with toll free phone contact. There are so many
> companies out there who offer their 800 number for tech support. AW
> however makes you pay to phone! She also failed to mention anything
> regarding the two citizenship's I would have coming to me as well.
> Typical of AW to ignore the majority of the question I am beginning to
> see.
>
> Here are the words from AW corporate headquarters:
>
> My Message to them:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Daffy Duck (by way of "Fletch at AWSupport"
> <fletch at activeworlds.com>)
> To: tom at activeworlds.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 10:45 AM
> Subject: World renewl probs
>
> Hello,
>
> I went to renew the world that I won at Bingo but the
> site said "contact AW, unable to determine free cits"
> The world is a P-20 which I guess owes me 2 free cits
> when I pay you the $40 to renew it since I never got
> them when I first won the world. How do I get to
> renew it if your site won't allow me? The world name
> is "-------". I don't feel I should have to phone and
> pay the long distance charges and I didn't see an 800
> number available.
>
> Looking forward to your reply.
>
> AW's first reply:
>
> From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>
>
> $40 for renewal. Please send your credit card information and I will
> process your order form here as there is not a primary renewal page for
> contest winners.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noelle Caterino
> Customer Service
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
> *(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND
> ACCURATE RESPONSE)*
>
> Hello Noelle,
>
> Thank you for responding but surely you cannot be
> serious and ask me to send you credit card information
> over an un-secure e-mail! It is not right for me to
> have to pay long distance either. AWCOM needs to
> address these serious issues, it is business.
>
> From: "Noelle" <noelle at activeworlds.com>
> To: "Daffy Duck" <>
>
> Hello -
>
> As with many other businesses, Activeworlds does not hold a toll free
> number
> as we offer other methods of ordering and customer resolution. Among
> these
> are the mail, e-mail, and online purchasing. Other customers have safely
>
> sent their card information for their purchases. Should you choose to do
> so
> you may reply to this mail (or start a new mail). If not you may send a
> personal US check or international money order to the address below.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Noelle Caterino
> Customer Service
> Activeworlds.com Inc.
> 95 Parker St.
> Newburyport, MA 01950
>
> www.activeworlds.com
>
> *(PLEASE INCLUDE ALL PREVIOUS DIALOG IN ALL REPLIES TO ENSURE A FAST AND
>
> ACCURATE RESPONSE)*
>
> I have always considered that security concerns with AW have been ZERO
> on their priority list. Here is actual proof with the Corporate SEAL so
> to speak.
>
> Let's wake up people! Or does AW wish to use this tactic because it
> knows many users are children? Children perhaps may not know better? I
> know myself and another who have had problems of AW overcharging credit
> cards and not refunding or providing services paid for. Anyone else out
> there with same problem???

Jun 30, 2001, 12:26pm

You are correct in saying that you should never send credit card
information via plain, unencrypted e-mail. If you absolutely have NO
other choice and you MUST send confidential information to someone via
e-mail, use some form of e-mail encryption like PGP. If AWCI would take
the time, they could implement PGP (for business use) for FREE using the
GNU Privacy Guard at http://www.gnupg.org/.

Another thing that disturbs me is that AWCI has NO privacy policy posted
on their Web site. In essence, they can practically do whatever they
wish with our personal information. I hope Facter includes one in the
next Web site update.

Builderz
Stuff-X - Bot & World Hosting Services
http://aw.stuff-x.com/
PGP Key ID: 0xAC0E7073 (for non-commercial use)

P.S. A privacy policy WILL be included on the Stuff-X Web site, once the
re-design is complete. ;)

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