Thread

yab (yet another bot) (Sdk)

yab (yet another bot) // Sdk

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chazrad

May 25, 2002, 5:42pm
I am looking for testers for my bot, especially multiworld owners,
In short a Paradox Database based bot with a full GUI.

Next to all build 24 functions, it will (all following functions now in
early or later stages of development):

allow to run from 1 interface, to the bot limit, bots in as many worlds
as you want, at the same time , lets you log on/log off any bot anytime,
log all visitors or selectively by name/world their movements/chats in a
db (with grep retrieval), manage building rights per world on a
time/personal basis even kicking out caretakers if so desired, monitor
access to a world based on world rights on a personal basis with ip,
name and session recognition (rating of world), store whole, or parts of
worlds in a db (only limit disk space) and rebuild them somewhere else
selectively (any combination of object attributes, allowing for
coordinate transformation), allow to produce a wav on a name out of the
chat with any kind of number of sounds connected to any kind of action
per person , has a normal chat window, lets you click on an avatar and
give access through a menu to integrated email, browse homepage, eject,
transport and view info of the wearer, (in very early development) build
through a mspaint like interface where WYSIWYG, can browse objects from
the obpath and show them in AW by just clicking on the name in the
browser, (will auto differentiate between texture, jpg, wav, midi (most
of the time ;)), selectively delete objects on any selection with oops!
function (rebuild them if you made a mistake)

and anything else i forgot already but is there anyway or i will come up
with...or anyone else comes up with.

The timeframe for distribution is hopefully around september 2002, or so
much later inversely proportional to the number of testers.

This bot now takes 16 mb in download size and about 20 mb expanded on
disk. All interested participants have to register for a copy, as the
bot contains copyrighted parts. Send me an email if you want to join.

agent1

May 25, 2002, 8:08pm
It would be better to post this in the Bots newsgroup or in
general.discussion.

BTW - What is it that makes your bot so huge? 16MB is very excessive
compared to other bots I've seen.

-Agent1

[View Quote]

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 5:52am
tnx, just put it in bots, huge? that's relative. But the reason: the
database drivers,(4mb) the internetsupport (botemail, browsing) (2.5mb)
the GUI drivers (6mb) the actual programsize is 100 kb :)
so updates usually take that much, the 16 mb is a one time only.


"agent1" <Agent1 at my.activeworlds.com> wrote in news:3cf00b59$1
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> It would be better to post this in the Bots newsgroup or in
> general.discussion.
>
> BTW - What is it that makes your bot so huge? 16MB is very excessive
> compared to other bots I've seen.
>
> -Agent1
>
[View Quote]

kah

May 26, 2002, 9:43am
"chazrad" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in news:3cf09459$1
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> tnx, just put it in bots, huge? that's relative. But the reason: the
> database drivers,(4mb) the internetsupport (botemail, browsing) (2.5mb)
> the GUI drivers (6mb) the actual programsize is 100 kb :)
> so updates usually take that much, the 16 mb is a one time only.

6MB of GUI drivers??? Get VB and make GUIs that take up a few kbs... (in
your face, you annoying VB discriminator)... heck, even the huge VB RTL is
smaller than that!

KAH

grimble

May 26, 2002, 10:54am
3rd Party UI Library? Any reason you chose not to use the MFC?

[View Quote]

carlbanks

May 26, 2002, 11:04am
Sounds cool but if you can do it and make size smaller I'll test it.

[View Quote]

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 11:08am
mfc stinks to very high heaven unfortunately. i had to do a project once
using VC and it irritated the &%%$ out of me...
I've been using C since it was about invented, and actually never got
the hots for ms products. they are usually sloppily build, bugridden,
cumbersome, underfeatured and counterproductive. Already since Turboc C
1.0 Borland had the lead on MS C in every which way. since Cbuilder i'd
never ever consider using VC again.

(IMHO :)



"grimble" <grimble2000 at btinternet.com> wrote in news:3cf0daf5$1
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> 3rd Party UI Library? Any reason you chose not to use the MFC?
>
[View Quote]

grimble

May 26, 2002, 11:12am
Then you suffer the consequences. A bot had better be pretty exceptional and
different to warrant 16MB download and, more importantly the installation
of that shuff.

[View Quote]

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 11:14am
well, as long as i have been using C, longer i used basic. I started off
in the late 70's with bbc basic switched to business basic, turbo basic
and cbasic. I looked at VB but it didn't give me anything i didn't have
in C, it was a MS product (see post to GRumble) and that's the whole
story. I don't discriminate VB, i just think that you have to use the
language that fits the crime and not use a language just because you
know it. Some things are just better off written in c, others in
assembly, others using whatever. And if you're expert at VB c should be
easy to pick up, try it you might be amazed what a range of possibilites
opens up ;) Or don't and hey all the best.....


"kah" <kah at kahnews.cjb.net> wrote in
news:Xns921A88A4128CAkahatkahnewsdotcjbdo at 64.94.241.201:

> "chazrad" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in news:3cf09459$1
> at server1.Activeworlds.com:
>
>
> 6MB of GUI drivers??? Get VB and make GUIs that take up a few kbs...
> (in your face, you annoying VB discriminator)... heck, even the huge
> VB RTL is smaller than that!
>
> KAH

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 1:49pm
only 1 way to find out, Grumble :))))

"grimble" <grimble2000 at btinternet.com> wrote in
news:3cf0df48$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Then you suffer the consequences. A bot had better be pretty
> exceptional and different to warrant 16MB download and, more
> importantly the installation of that shuff.
>
[View Quote]

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 2:11pm
have you ever seen Amadeus? (the movie ;) My very most often quoted
phrase is the one when mozart produced the first all german opera (4
hours of it), after which the austrian emperor says:

There's just to many notes.

And mozart says:

which notes would you like me to remove?

Unfortunately features come at a price :( wish it wasn't so, but.....
also it weeds out 'less then serious' participants.

Sounds also a bit like if you have to ask the price of a (fill in
whichever expensive car) you can't afford it.

Looks like only seriously interested people will try it out which suits
me fine really.

And what's 16 mb in todays world? and note that's only first time
installment, updates take only about 100 kb...

Furthermore by the very nature of this bot it is mostly geared towards
worldowners, which mostly by default have the storage and bandwidth to
accomodate this app.

Finally:

almost final:

all database interfaces
the delete/rebuild
the storage/rebuild (with edit)
world build allowance
wav/name sound producing
object browsing
integrated email/homepage browser
visitor logging
avatar popupmenu

less then stable:

mirror/follow
natural language interpretation of bot commands through whispers

really early stages:

building through paintprogram
multi botting in unlimited worlds at the same time

terrainbuilding i am currently studying and as yet is not implemented


"carlbanks" <Virtualcarlbanks at hotmail.com> wrote in news:3cf0dd56$1
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Sounds cool but if you can do it and make size smaller I'll test it.
>
[View Quote]

carlbanks

May 26, 2002, 2:52pm
okie send it to me I'll test it for you.

[View Quote]

grimble

May 26, 2002, 4:32pm
Filter time ... bye

[View Quote]

chazrad

May 26, 2002, 5:39pm
"carlbanks" <Virtualcarlbanks at hotmail.com> wrote in news:3cf112b4$1
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> okie send it to me I'll test it for you.

tnx (i hope :) i'll make it available on my server, i'll give the adress in
a private email. it wil take about 1 week more to have the first draft
ready for testing....

young phalpha

May 26, 2002, 11:46pm
include me in it, I'm hoping you'll add scripting or something of the sort?

- YP

[View Quote] > okie send it to me I'll test it for you.

tnx (i hope :) i'll make it available on my server, i'll give the adress in
a private email. it wil take about 1 week more to have the first draft
ready for testing....

chazrad

May 27, 2002, 8:14am
Hey tnx! i'll put you on the list, already 2 wow. Scripting...i was
thinking about it, but to make it worth the effort it would have to be a
scripting that at least could interprete other botscripts, otherwise
people wouldn't use it anyway. since the other scripting bots work fine
it's probably better not to put my efforts there, but more in adding
predefined, most popular functions with same sort of extensive parameter
setting. Didnt work this out yet as you can see :)



"young phalpha" <RhaneC at msn.com> wrote in
news:3cf18fe3$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> include me in it, I'm hoping you'll add scripting or something of the
> sort?
>
> - YP
>
[View Quote]

kah

May 27, 2002, 4:57pm
"chazrad" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in news:3cf0dfa8
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

><snipped>

Well, maybe you didn't intend to put down VB systematically, but it sure
was that way it seemed. This has annoyed me and lots of other VB
programmers around here. I'm adventuring into the realms of C and C++, but
it's taking a while ;-)) I don't recommend posting "you should do that in
C, not in VB" in VB related threads, we see it as an attack on our
abilities.

KAH

kah

May 27, 2002, 5:02pm
"young phalpha" <RhaneC at msn.com> wrote in
news:3cf18fe3$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> include me in it, I'm hoping you'll add scripting or something of the
> sort?

And me please :-)) (send any mail to the address in my From header, it's my
real address)

KAH

chazrad

May 27, 2002, 5:43pm
ok KAH. at least i can be sure you'll pick my bot to pieces :) Just be
gentle, it's it's first time :)))

"kah" <kah at kahnews.cjb.net> wrote in
news:Xns921BD2EF7E960kahatkahnewsdotcjbdo at 64.94.241.201:

> "young phalpha" <RhaneC at msn.com> wrote in
> news:3cf18fe3$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:
>
>
> And me please :-)) (send any mail to the address in my From header,
> it's my real address)
>
> KAH
>

strike rapier

May 28, 2002, 8:31pm
Yeah! Even those VB'ers of us with little ability :OP

-Mark
*Not perfect at the moment, but working on it*

strike rapier

May 28, 2002, 8:39pm
all database interfaces - Explain please
the delete/rebuild - Not hard
the storage/rebuild (with edit) - Not Hard
world build allowance - Not Hard (with allot of auto updates)
wav/name sound producing - Dont ya love WindowMediaPlayer.ocx ?
object browsing - Ohh, intersting, but do you mean in 3D or just displayed?
integrated email/homepage browser - Easy, just a lil mailer OCX
visitor logging - Yup.. as easy a a sdk function
avatar popupmenu - Easy peasy

What was the other 16 Mb for again? Ive got most of this incorporated into
my bot im making in VB and its a whole 300K, so whats the rest for?

kah

May 29, 2002, 3:38pm
"strike rapier" <strike at rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3cf40734 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> all database interfaces - Explain please
> the delete/rebuild - Not hard
> the storage/rebuild (with edit) - Not Hard
> world build allowance - Not Hard (with allot of auto updates)
> wav/name sound producing - Dont ya love WindowMediaPlayer.ocx ?
> object browsing - Ohh, intersting, but do you mean in 3D or just
> displayed? integrated email/homepage browser - Easy, just a lil mailer
> OCX visitor logging - Yup.. as easy a a sdk function
> avatar popupmenu - Easy peasy
>
> What was the other 16 Mb for again? Ive got most of this incorporated
> into my bot im making in VB and its a whole 300K, so whats the rest
> for?

WMP.OCX? that's a crappy thingy lol ;-)) Mailer OCX? You mean those
horrid MAPI things from MS? I recommend just using a winsock (the SMTP
protocol is easyer than saying "moo"). Now you're putting him down,
please don't :-))

KAH

strike rapier

May 29, 2002, 4:18pm
I saw this neat lil thing on Planet Source Code that is a full SMTP mailer,
jeez its big though, its got this huge mod with about 500 functions in. And
id prbably use the media control :P

-Mark

PS: Not putting em down just saying creating the things are easy (especially
with PSC to learn from), putting em all together in aw aint :P

chazrad

May 29, 2002, 5:34pm
tnx KAH, i didn't see his post because i've put all the negativists in
the killfile, but, yes trust me: i dont use any MS crap except for
msagent... which for a change really works quite well :) glad to see
someone stands up for poor little me :))))

I can't help myself unfortunately, i felt i was mature enough to ignore
blissfully this immature flaming but Strike proves me wrong so against
every better judgement:

funny guy, explain what?

so why i didnt see it yet?

AW alone has 125.000.000 objects....not hard? are you joking?

auto updates? what's that?. I have a cadillac, it doesn't get updated
that often (auto is a car in Europe :)

wmp to play sounds? so how are all the others going to hear you? by
phone? or they will all start the bot, that will crank up the no of
people in a world for sure... or is strike just milking to find out how
to do it really?

wouldnt you like to know, strike

????? cant make heads or tails ofthis.

Anywhere i said it was difficult? i just gave some of the main features,
i didn't attach a value for money list to it or did i? I wrote this prog
for some friends of mine, and after i found out that most functions are
not available to bot users, i decided to share it with the rest of aw,
if you dont like it well.....be sure i'll sleep quite soundly :)

Anyway, my main prog is 100 kb now, so that's 1/3 of yours....or did you
forget all the drivers vb adresses that are a integral part of winblows?

Read about Runtime Link Libraries first why dont you.


Or are you that incompetent to think that VB is an entity by itself and
that the compiled exe contains all code necessary to run it?

Or that that the VB distributables contain all the code to run your app?

Or that VB doesn't incur an enormous overhead because of it's lack of
typing?

Imagine the code necessary to check every time in a loop if the variable
you give it is a char, word, double word and so on.

To have switch cases with open arrays instead of fixed words, try to
write a parser that will arrange that for you maybe then you will
realize the enormous price you pay for the userfriendlyness of basic.

I love basic, for it's ease of use, it let's me write a quick and dirty
prototype of my idea. But to write a full blown enduser safe app in it?
Not on my life. As easy as it lets me prototype it lets me f**k up an
app in ways no debugger gets unrevelled in a 100 manhours.

For sure C++ is a pain the ass if you want to write something quickly,
but for designing and maintaining serious software nothing beats it yet.

Furthermore don't forget most os's are written in C or C++ combined with
assembly for a reason.

If you want to slag someone do it well, or at least wait till you have
seen the product, which i offer to you for a special price ;)

Enough, i've said my piece. I could really go on about this for hours
because as most of the flamers i've seen sofar my knowledge is based on
experience and not of selective reading of books.

Be happy with whatsoever, and anyday you want ot derise C, well i'll
just don't give a sh*t, whereas sofar most people flaming me seem to be
very affronted be me....

Be well all of you, from now on i'll ignore any post that's not
constructive

strike rapier

May 29, 2002, 6:22pm
> so why i didnt see it yet? - Ever seen a Xelagot?
>
> AW alone has 125.000.000 objects....not hard? are you joking? - Ever seen
a xelagot?
>
> auto updates? what's that?. I have a cadillac, it doesn't get updated
> that often (auto is a car in Europe :) - if you mean by objects they can
build its just using a query with a list of citnums and how many they can
use
BuildList(334303).Total = BuildList(334303).Total +1


> wmp to play sounds? so how are all the others going to hear you? by
> phone? or they will all start the bot, that will crank up the no of
> people in a world for sure... or is strike just milking to find out how
> to do it really? - Presume you mean a way to play sounds though the bot?
>
> wouldnt you like to know, strike - Yep, i look forward to seeing it when u
release it fully :)
>
> ????? cant make heads or tails ofthis. - Form1.PopupMenu mnuPopUp - witha
few set 1's for av popup, unless u mean in AW which would really be
impressive.

>
> Anywhere i said it was difficult? i just gave some of the main features,
> i didn't attach a value for money list to it or did i? I wrote this prog
> for some friends of mine, and after i found out that most functions are
> not available to bot users, i decided to share it with the rest of aw,
> if you dont like it well.....be sure i'll sleep quite soundly :)
>
> Anyway, my main prog is 100 kb now, so that's 1/3 of yours....or did you
> forget all the drivers vb adresses that are a integral part of winblows? -
Nah, i didnt say the installer was 300k :)
>
> Read about Runtime Link Libraries first why dont you.
>
>
> Or are you that incompetent to think that VB is an entity by itself and
> that the compiled exe contains all code necessary to run it?
>
> Or that that the VB distributables contain all the code to run your app?
>
> Or that VB doesn't incur an enormous overhead because of it's lack of
> typing?
>
> Imagine the code necessary to check every time in a loop if the variable
> you give it is a char, word, double word and so on. - Hmm, Char len = 1,
Word Len > 1 Double word Split(Phrase, " ") = true

>
> To have switch cases with open arrays instead of fixed words, try to
> write a parser that will arrange that for you maybe then you will
> realize the enormous price you pay for the userfriendlyness of basic.
>
> I love basic, for it's ease of use, it let's me write a quick and dirty
> prototype of my idea. But to write a full blown enduser safe app in it?
> Not on my life. As easy as it lets me prototype it lets me f**k up an
> app in ways no debugger gets unrevelled in a 100 manhours.
>
> For sure C++ is a pain the ass if you want to write something quickly,
> but for designing and maintaining serious software nothing beats it yet. -
Yep, I think everyone acnolages for most things C++ kicks VB all over the
place, but some of us like it :)
>
> Furthermore don't forget most os's are written in C or C++ combined with
> assembly for a reason.
>
> If you want to slag someone do it well, or at least wait till you have
> seen the product, which i offer to you for a special price ;) - hehe, I
look forward to it, we can compare it to mine once its finished. (mine
finished that is)


> Enough, i've said my piece. I could really go on about this for hours
> because as most of the flamers i've seen sofar my knowledge is based on
> experience and not of selective reading of books.
>
> Be happy with whatsoever, and anyday you want ot derise C, well i'll
> just don't give a sh*t, whereas sofar most people flaming me seem to be
> very affronted be me....
>
> Be well all of you, from now on i'll ignore any post that's not
> constructive

BTw, dont think im insulting your bot or anything such as that :) Far from
it, some of the things u said havent been seen anywhere

silenced

May 29, 2002, 6:30pm
Learn to reply.. I can't make out your replies from his.. very hard for him
to follow as well I'd assume.

--Bowen--

Have $3... want a website?
http://www.smartpenguin.com/affiliate.php?id=12

[View Quote]

strike rapier

May 29, 2002, 6:33pm
hehe, anyway, dont take it offencivly in any way :) Im sure it will be great

- Mark

chazrad

May 29, 2002, 6:45pm
you all will manage

"silenced" <nospam at privacy.com> wrote in
news:3cf53a73$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Learn to reply.. I can't make out your replies from his.. very hard
> for him to follow as well I'd assume.
>

strike rapier

May 29, 2002, 7:39pm
Sorry, Did it in a text editor then pasted back into OE. >_<

kah

May 30, 2002, 2:43pm
Note that VB *does* have typing, but it also has a type called Variant,
which does not have typing, and it is considerably slower than a variable
declared as a specific type, all serious VB programmers keep well at
distance from it.

KAH

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