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Jun 24, 2004, 4:19am

I'd like to announce that the beta version of the AWTeen Property Search
is online.

Although it is in a very unpolished state, all the features/search
options work. I welcome any and all feedback (comments, suggestions,
constructive criticism) here or at JerMe at nc.rr.com.

http://www.AWTeen.com/property_search/

Regards,
Jeremy


--

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34

Jun 24, 2004, 4:21am

Not bad, using mysql database querys.. hmm.

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 4:29am

Actually I'm confused. Under X and Y I tried going to the coords it shows,
even tampering if it was north, south, east west... =\

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

Jun 24, 2004, 7:26am

cool.....works great, and fast! I was never really able to use the one
for AW...too many objects under this cit...400k, browser would keep
timing out searching through that many objects. I have about the same
number of objects in awteen that I have in AW but with yours there's no
timeouts, it gives the results quick...now I can find my lost city hehe.
One thing's kinda wierd tho...it's showing property for me built in
2002...I didn't join Activeworlds until 2003....

[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 1:40pm

Kathryn,

I popped your name into my contact list, grabbed your cit num, and ran a
search for property built only in 2002...

I came up with 23 results.

What's even more weird, is the 23 results are split between two specific
times:
2002-08-20 04:07:40 (10 objects)
2002-12-04 03:07:18 (13 objects)

They're also all terrain.rwx objects.

It get's weirder....
I tried actully teleporting to the location of these objects to see what
the AW browser says about their time stamps, but they don't exist. The
place I teleported to was where you had built some underground land
cover. The terrain texture has definitly changed though, meaning that
at some point there were terrain.rwx objects there.

So, i'm not sure what's going on. But I don't think it's the property
search's fault. The way I create the database that is uses is to have a
script go though a propdump line-by-line and insert it into the MySQL
database. So it must have come out of the propdump with a 2002 date on it.

See if you can use the property search to teleport to those objects (use
the date fields between 20020101 and 20021231) and let me know if you
can find those terrain objects.

-Jeremy


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34





[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 1:58pm

wow thanks for looking into that....
Well, I went out to the site in teen, and was able to find the
terrain.rwx's....they were invisible, and I was able to see them after I
made an object nearby to click on....in the object properties window,
the dates on the terrain objects did show as being from 2002...so yeah,
it's definetely something on the awteen side of things and not from the
search script, it accurately showed the info that the world server had
for the objects. Those objects were demeter built objects, put there
through use of the demeter bot, so Im guessing that it's prob some
glitch in the terrain bot that gave them the wierd date....could be I
was trying to copying too many terrain objects at once and broke the bot
hehe

[View Quote] > Kathryn,
>
> I popped your name into my contact list, grabbed your cit num, and ran a
> search for property built only in 2002...
>
> I came up with 23 results.
>
> What's even more weird, is the 23 results are split between two specific
> times:
> 2002-08-20 04:07:40 (10 objects)
> 2002-12-04 03:07:18 (13 objects)
>
> They're also all terrain.rwx objects.
>
> It get's weirder....
> I tried actully teleporting to the location of these objects to see what
> the AW browser says about their time stamps, but they don't exist. The
> place I teleported to was where you had built some underground land
> cover. The terrain texture has definitly changed though, meaning that
> at some point there were terrain.rwx objects there.
>
> So, i'm not sure what's going on. But I don't think it's the property
> search's fault. The way I create the database that is uses is to have a
> script go though a propdump line-by-line and insert it into the MySQL
> database. So it must have come out of the propdump with a 2002 date on it.
>
> See if you can use the property search to teleport to those objects (use
> the date fields between 20020101 and 20021231) and let me know if you
> can find those terrain objects.
>
> -Jeremy
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
> JTech Web Systems
> www.JTechWebSystems.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
> itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
>
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 2:08pm

[View Quote] It can be a bug in the bot Demeter - it maybe uses a wrong timestamps when building a terrain.rwx ?

--
Andras
"It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)

Jun 24, 2004, 2:34pm

I've been building with demeter for over year, this is the first time
I've seen it give the wrong timestamp....it's always done ok before....I
think the bot was just having problems the day I built those ones.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 4:05pm

Jerme, what is the priv pass? surely not our own privilege password?

Alex

[View Quote] >I'd like to announce that the beta version of the AWTeen Property Search
>is online.
>
>Although it is in a very unpolished state, all the features/search
>options work. I welcome any and all feedback (comments, suggestions,
>constructive criticism) here or at JerMe at nc.rr.com.
>
>http://www.AWTeen.com/property_search/
>
>Regards,
> Jeremy

Jun 24, 2004, 5:41pm

Indeed it is, Xela. This is a recent post of JerMe in the andras ng's
related to your question:

Expired, meaning your priv pass no longer works?

I can help you find your property ( I can bypass the login, of course),
but there's no way you can do it on your own. I built the login system
to prevent people from searching for everyone elses stuff and doing bad
things with that information (vandalizing, deleting, etc...).

So, if you'd like to e-mail me with your cit # and a hint at what you're
looking for, I'll be happy to look it and let you know what I find.

-Jeremy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
-------------------------------------------

:)

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

Jun 24, 2004, 5:53pm

umm, yea... It's your own priv pass.

I realize the pages are not all in SSL and everything. Right now, that's
just not possible for several reasons.

1) Money.. It takes some money to buy an SSL certificate from
Verisign/Network Solutions (my preferred provider registar). That's
money I don't really have. The people of AWTeen should feel special
enough that I'm paying for the server, maintaining the server, and
writing all (or most) of the pages. I'm a poor broke college student,
what do you expect?

2) Configuration.... SSL requires the site to have it's own IP address,
you can't use the apache VirtualHosts. It just so happens that
VirtualHosts are what I use in my config file. Yes, this can be changed.
But, until I have another IP address (just a mattter of requesting one),
and a SSL certificate, there's no reason to change this and complicate
the configuration any more than it already is.

3) It's just a priv pass, not your credit card number.

So, if you're that paranoid then I guess don't use it. I don't know what
else I can tell you.

-Jeremy

P.S. A one year 40-bit SSL certificate for AWTeen.com would be $349 USD.
If anyone is feeling generous enough, I'd be more than happy to take a
donation for this ammount and use it to setup SSL for awteen.com.
http://www.verisign.com/products/site/secure/index.html

Like I said earlier though, I definitly don't have that much money to
contribute (on top of what I already am with the server). And I don't
really see SSL as being that necessary.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34




[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 6:17pm

re: 3) In the Imabot's forums for the AW prop search which also uses a
ppw, it was suggested that if someone is uncomfortable entering their
password onto the site, to make a temporary password just for use at the
site then change it back when they're done :)

[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 7:21pm

Good point...

And yes, I forgot to point out... My scripts work the same way that
Ima's do. It tries to log in a bot using your cit # and priv pass. The
only difference is, Ima has an SSL option.

-Jeremy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34





[View Quote]

Jun 24, 2004, 7:38pm

:P

I have SSL on my system, if you'd like i can set you up a subdomain or
something for ya, free of charge.

--

Signed,
TheMask

:: Owner of Delusional-Minds Hosting ::
Free world hosting.. Just a T-Gram will do it.

http://www.delusional-minds.com

Jun 25, 2004, 1:11am

Hi,

I mean no disrespect. The point is that giving your privs requires:

1) trusting the person you give them to.

2) making sure you are not evesdropped (SSL)

3) and, since any bot can query an area and find property belonging to
anyone, requiring someone's privs to find property is like asking for
a passport to enter an area that everybody can enter anyway :)

As suggested by AWI, I do not give my privs to anyone unless I trust
them, less alone to an anonymous web page that can be evesdropped.
And even so, if the page was secure, who garantees the privacy, the
owner of the page?

With Xelagot, I have had various acusations of backdoors and viruses
spread by my bot, all false but nevertheless very annoying. I still
get them once every few months by email. Do you need that hassle too?
If revealing privs is not needed (and it is not, it does not garantee
anything as far as protection against vandalism goes) then why bother?

Just my opinion, and keep the good work on a helpfull bot :)

Alex

[View Quote] >umm, yea... It's your own priv pass.
>
>I realize the pages are not all in SSL and everything. Right now, that's
>just not possible for several reasons.
>
>1) Money.. It takes some money to buy an SSL certificate from
>Verisign/Network Solutions (my preferred provider registar). That's
>money I don't really have. The people of AWTeen should feel special
>enough that I'm paying for the server, maintaining the server, and
>writing all (or most) of the pages. I'm a poor broke college student,
>what do you expect?
>
>2) Configuration.... SSL requires the site to have it's own IP address,
>you can't use the apache VirtualHosts. It just so happens that
>VirtualHosts are what I use in my config file. Yes, this can be changed.
>But, until I have another IP address (just a mattter of requesting one),
>and a SSL certificate, there's no reason to change this and complicate
>the configuration any more than it already is.
>
>3) It's just a priv pass, not your credit card number.
>
>So, if you're that paranoid then I guess don't use it. I don't know what
>else I can tell you.
>
>-Jeremy
>
>P.S. A one year 40-bit SSL certificate for AWTeen.com would be $349 USD.
>If anyone is feeling generous enough, I'd be more than happy to take a
>donation for this ammount and use it to setup SSL for awteen.com.
>http://www.verisign.com/products/site/secure/index.html
>
>Like I said earlier though, I definitly don't have that much money to
>contribute (on top of what I already am with the server). And I don't
>really see SSL as being that necessary.
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
>JTech Web Systems
>www.JTechWebSystems.com
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
>itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 1:16am

i know about 2 times in the history awteen that Demeter decided to hide/show
massive amounts of terrain.rwxs on its own without the citizen using a
command.. i even was able a few time to just simply click on someone else's
terrain.rwx and it will make it disappear, and that was when i never had CT
rights, and even when i was not in a Demeter session... it has a few bugs in
the system... the date is not always when it was made.. just when it was
modified.

[View Quote] > I've been building with demeter for over year, this is the first time
> I've seen it give the wrong timestamp....it's always done ok before....I
> think the bot was just having problems the day I built those ones.
>
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 1:16pm

especially when its there to help people from stealing our land,
vandalizing, and deleting...well if someone with 1 week of skills about
websites can look at the site and learn you ppw...well im sorry its kind of
pointless for all we know someone has a list of all our ppws already, what
you might want to do is switch to something else IE have users register for
awteen.com, or something and then use their awteen.com priv
[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 5:59pm

xelag,

> I mean no disrespect.
And neither do I :-) (We definitly don't need this turning into a
flame war, as is too often the case here recently)

> 1) trusting the person you give them to.
Yes, trust is a very funny thing. I think I've been around AW and
AWTeen long enough to be trusted. If Chanty and AWI trusts me with the
AWTeen Caretaker priv pass, I think you can trust me with yours.

If you're really that nervous, just ask and I'll post the script's
source for everyone to look at.

> 2) making sure you are not evesdropped (SSL)
I think we covered that one in my last post.

> 3) and, since any bot can query an area and find property belonging to
> anyone, requiring someone's privs to find property is like asking for
> a passport to enter an area that everybody can enter anyway :)

Yes, you're correct, anyone can use a bot to accomplish exactly the same
goal as the Property Search scripts. However, a search of this nature
requires time (it takes me about 8 hours to query all of AWTeen),
entales dealing with large files (AWTeen's propdump is 1.6GB), and/or
dealing with bots/programs that end up bogging your system down as they
run for hours on end. A search of this kind is generally prohibitive to
most users and their systems because of the reasons listed above. This
is something that most people are unwilling to do (and therefore the
purpose of creating the property search scripts in the first place).

However, not having a priv pass on the search scripts would allow anyone
with the slightest bit of knowledge to look up anyone's property very
quickly, and that can lead to problems.

So, while I realize that anyone can use a bot to do the same thing, I
think the priv pass adds a certin sense of privacy (while not a complete
sense) and keeps malacious users from abusing the property search scripts.

> As suggested by AWI, I do not give my privs to anyone unless I trust
> them, less alone to an anonymous web page that can be evesdropped.
> And even so, if the page was secure, who garantees the privacy, the
> owner of the page?
This applies to any every website then... Who garantees your privacy on
any site?

> With Xelagot, I have had various acusations of backdoors and viruses
> spread by my bot, all false but nevertheless very annoying. I still
> get them once every few months by email. Do you need that hassle too?
> If revealing privs is not needed (and it is not, it does not garantee
> anything as far as protection against vandalism goes) then why bother?

Don't know what to say about this.... We both know there's stupid people
out there. While these stupid people make up a small part of the
population (relativly), they will to contine to use their stupidity to
raise hell and cause unneccessary drama/problems. However, I refuse to
let their stupidity hold me back from making a utility that is very
useful for the brighter ones of the bunch.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that there's always going to be
people out there who want to make unfounded accusations of trojan
horses, viruses, backdoors, hacking, etc, etc,... and I'm prepared to
deal with their nonsense.

Using priv passes does nothing to *garantee* protection against
vandalsim, but without a priv pass I can garantee that the scripts would
be used *for* vandalism. Because the scripts make it quick and
effortless to look up property they are much more attractive to
malacious users, and would be very prone to abuse without a priv pass.


> Just my opinion
All of this is, of course, is my opinion also and you should take it as
such.

>and keep the good work on a helpfull bot :)
Thank you, and likewise to yourself.

Regards,
Jeremy

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34




[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 6:13pm

You thoughts were all kinda run together there CP, but I'm going to try
to make sense of it...

First of all, it would take *a lot* of skill (not just 1 week's worth)
to intercept packets from one remote network to another remote network.

And yes, I *could* be making a list of priv passes, but i'm not.
1) I'm not really interested in messing with other people builds...
2) I'm already a CT in AWTeen.. If I really wanted to go out and cause
problems, I'd just use those privs. Making this whole property search
thing would just be a waste of time.

CP, my friend, I'm already ahead of you. My next step is to introduce a
login sytem on AWTeen.com itself. You would register once and the server
would check your cit num and priv pass (just as it does now) at that
time. From then on though, you would use a seperate password to log in
to AWTeen.com and the server would no longer need your priv pass
everytime, knowing that you've already verified your account.

As always, if you're that paranoid about your privlage password, you can
use the suggestion someone made earlier. Change your password to
something different, use the property search, and when your done, change
your password back. That simple... :-)

-Jeremy



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34





[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2004, 11:55pm

I wasn't implying you were making a list, someone else could easily, and
nope you can learn it in under a week...plus numerous programs allow this.
and I know your a ct I trust you heck I work with you for ttv lol...but one
more thing C P...I know its a hassle for that one space :-) not that im
bothered by it, but there are two cp's in aw...CP=CaptainPilot (I think),
and C P=CrAzY PiLLs (people didn't want to type that out properly so I
switched to C P) so if its not too much a hassle call me C P.

[View Quote]

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