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trueSpace new reviews? Demo?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
trueSpace new reviews? Demo? // Roundtable
Post by jakima // May 8, 2006, 9:23pm
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jakima
Total Posts: 1
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Unfortunately I couldn't reach the reviews of tS7, which you guys mentioned in your posts before. Just want to get some competent and reliable opinions before spending money on the upgrade. I was (am) a tS6.6 user, but I can't get use to the new UIs in tS7 - in my opinion the new stuff is confusing and unclear.
Does anybody know about any positive review of the new tS? Does Caligari plan to put some reviews on their website? What about demo or trial version? These do concerns a basic customer service.
Adam |
Post by Paul Boland // May 9, 2006, 7:23am
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Paul Boland
Total Posts: 383
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I remember when I got TrueSpace 5, I was a TrueSpace 2 user at the time. The change to the UI in TrueSpace 5 was a shock at first and I remember sticking with version 2 for a while after installing 5. But eventually I got use to it and now I know my way around 5 like the back of my hand.
As for a demo, yes, Caligari, what's the word on the demo version for us users who don't have version 7 yet? |
Post by KeithC // May 9, 2006, 7:31am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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The demo question has been asked repeatedly. Jakima could use the UI if there was a demo, Paul. TomG at least acknowledged the question in the GameSpace forum once. Caligari has pretty much already lost me as far as an upgrade, by now. I'm still plugging away with TS 6.6, but it doesn't really matter to me if there's a demo or not anymore.
-Keith |
Post by jamesmc // May 9, 2006, 9:44am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Cars huh? I can go downtown right now and test drive an eighty thousand dollar Mercedes, with minimal inconvenience.
You know Splinters, that belittleing thing you do on this forum is not a good thing.
Perhaps he was on the edge of a decision between tS7, Carrara or some other package. Perhaps he really likes tS7 deep down, but is frustrated he can't see what the changes actually are.
And perhaps he is like 90 percent of forum users on the net in that he just writes off the cuff (you know, just post) and doesn't really realize or care the way he wrote a statement.
Perhaps he will read your statement that disects a distinct portion of his comment out of a paragraph and decide tS is not for him.
It takes very little negative atmosphere to turn customers away from a product. Doesn't matter if it's the product or some self-appointed forum monitor.
He was probably referring to the player interface or whatever the official name is. The one that looks like a flow chart algorithm from hell to get something to do something.
Why do you make everything someone writes personal? People are entitled to their opinions. They don't deserve ad hominin remarks, dogpiling or explicit disection of their statements in order to discredit their position on a subject.
Maybe you could have written something like this:
'Hey, if you were in England you could come on over to the house and I would show you what it does! You can plunk down the price for tS7 right now and have thirty days to decide if you like or not. If you don't like it they will refund your money in full. No questions asked! If you do decide to test buy it, come back to the forum with any question, I and other will be here to help!" Good luck in your decision!"
Now, that leaves a positive note and is worth way more than gaining a single customer, it gains long lived loyalty if people know they are part of a group.
Alienation well... it alienates people. |
Post by chrono // May 9, 2006, 10:02am
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chrono
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It's understandable that people won't 'get' nor grasp TS7's interface from a screen grab. Customers saying that they don't 'get it', the interface, should rings some bells and raise some red flags on immediate, short term, & long term user friendliness and usability with the makers and alpha testers. 3D programs now share so many of the same tooling it's only a matter of workflow difference that defines their differences. So, if your further away from what is considered 'standardized' tooling the more difficult it becomes to learn the different workflow and less customers you'll get. |
Post by KeithC // May 9, 2006, 10:09am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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I am not denying that using TS7 may alay any doubts regarding the UI but you cannot justify a comment like " I can't get use (sic) to the new UIs in TS7", when you have not actually used it.
Fair enough. Personally, I liked the look of the new icons. But a demo would have sealed it for me; or at least an acknowledgment of the demo question in these forums (an exact date wouldn't be needed). But it seems that an answer isn't warranted here. So I am drawn to a package that works out of the box, and has a demo; the unfortunate thing is that I will be leaving this community and I'll have to learn a new program.
-Keith |
Post by Penforhire // May 9, 2006, 10:17am
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Penforhire
Total Posts: 4
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Chrono, the tS command interface has always been unique and, to me, eternally irritating. I want an option for an alternate traditional interface but I think we have to realize that the graphical interface is at the heart of Caligari's family jewels, what they think makes them special. I preferred to think of them as special, and stuck with them, because of tS' bang for the buck.
I will not be upgrading from 6.6 to 7.x either but I don't see how Splinters comes across that negative. His responses seem reasonable. Forum decorum has zero to do with my passing on this upgrade. |
Post by Délé // May 9, 2006, 10:32am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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the unfortunate thing is that I will be leaving this community and I'll have to learn a new program.
That would indeed be unfortunate Keith. I rather like having you around and would really enjoy seeing all of your game work come alive in the TS7 Player. I do realize a demo has been long awaited though. It would be nice if they could get one out. Still, I hope you do stick around. :) |
Post by Alien // May 9, 2006, 10:34am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Chrono, the tS command interface has always been unique and, to me, eternally irritating. I want an option for an alternate traditional interface but I think we have to realize that the graphical interface is at the heart of Caligari's family jewels, what they think makes them special.
You don't have to make use of the nice new icons, you can switch the toolbars to text mode, the only downside being that the width is restricted to X characters [I forget how many, I use the icons], so names of tools can get cut off/shortened. This issue was mentioned just after 7.0 was released,but I forget whether it was said Caligari were going to fix it, or if someone discovered how to adjust it themselves [it depends on whether you can get to it in the LE, or if it's hard-coded]. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif |
Post by KeithC // May 9, 2006, 10:41am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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I had been hoping to show the gaming world that TrueSpace/GameSpace was a contender for the Indy Game Developer community; but I can't take the instability (the 'save often' philosophy), and the exporting problems (.X animations)...and don't get me started on the undo "function". I had high hopes when I first saw the screens of TS7 back in the old forums; but when the upgrade price is close to the asking price of some established industry (read "stable") applications, I really can't afford to upgrade TS. I simply don't have the time to wait anymore. I've already begun to familiarize myself with the UI of the app. I'm switching to (their demo enables me to do that); I'm just waiting on the money now. I could have been familiarizing myself with TS7 instead...but that's life I guess.
-Keith |
Post by Alien // May 9, 2006, 10:48am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I don't think a way for the users to do it was given...but it needs mentioning to developers again. However, I think the problem is the size of the text icon. If it were wider, they would not fit into the UI. As you might imagine, I just stick with the icons...:confused:
You know your way round the LE a lot better than I do [I've probably used it even less than you do, & you were the 1 who figured out how to make that bigger version of the view aspects toolbar ;)], but I was thinking - if the icon at the toolbar level stayed the same size, but the text buttons/icons/whatever that came out when clicked showed full size, that would be a lot better than the current situation [kinda like most menus in most windows progs]. |
Post by jamesmc // May 9, 2006, 11:00am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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A few points;
1. Please, define belittleing and explain your insinuation that I make a habit of it by your comment that it is a 'thing I do on this forum'
2. It was not negative-it was honest.
3. I don't invite 'strangers' round to my house. If you do...good luck.
4. The 30 day money back guarantee is pretty well known..I don't need to patronise by repeating it.
5. Why do you presume I take anything personally?
6. Please don't presume what people mean-it can lead to all sorts of misinterpretations like the one that the player is like a flow chart...that is the Link Editor.
7. Please read my reply again before flying off with your somewhat aserbic comments...I merely pointed out that you cannot say " I cannot get used to a UI" if you have not actually used it. Surely that is a contradiction...
8. And please, don't let this thread become quarantined by a long winded argument that actually makes defamatory statements about someone...I have not done that...can you say the same?
I don't look for arguments...I spend most of my time here contributing to discussions about the future of TS7 or trying to help new users, but neither do I back down when accused of the opposite.
regarding the UI but you cannot justify a comment like " I can't get use (sic) to the new UIs in TS7", when you have not actually used it. It's like seeing a photo of a new car interior and saying "I can't get used to driving that car".
Nice sugar-coating of what you actually said. You said 'justify' in your statement. To me that is a statement totally discounting the worth of someone's comments in a forum.
I don't think I need to define belittleing, surely they have dictionaries in the U.K.
I already described the flow chart mechanism as something I don't know what its nomenclature is. How am I supposed to know that is a Link Editor if I've never seen the program to describe one? Maybe in the demo version? heh
My statements are not defamatory, it's getting you to realize that some of your comments are aserbic in their scope.
However, if you want to continue to chase off potential customers, by all means continue in a sanctimonious manner. |
Post by jamesmc // May 9, 2006, 11:32am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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But first, you want to get the last shot about me needing calming exercises eh?
...the dictionary thing eh? I thought you were self-motivated adult to look in a dictionary to figure out what the word meant.
Being as I'm probably twenty years older than you are, been around the world at least twenty times, I just might know a thing or two about personality and what a 'single' word can mean.
But I will end it here as I can see you're all safe and comfy in your computer zone to act the way you wish. |
Post by optimiztic // May 9, 2006, 12:49pm
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optimiztic
Total Posts: 43
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I'm almost afraid to poke my nose into this hornet's nest, but, for those of you who have a dictionary, I think the word you're looking for is 'acerbic.' :jumpy:
Don |
Post by jamesmc // May 9, 2006, 1:28pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I'm almost afraid to poke my nose into this hornet's nest, but, for those of you who have a dictionary, I think the word you're looking for is 'acerbic.' :jumpy:
Don
Quite right you are. Our word processing contractors often remarked how amazing it was that we made it through engineering school with our grammar and spelling. :) |
Post by chrono // May 9, 2006, 2:47pm
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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You don't have to make use of the nice new icons, you can switch the toolbars to text mode, the only downside being that the width is restricted to X characters [I forget how many, I use the icons], so names of tools can get cut off/shortened. This issue was mentioned just after 7.0 was released,but I forget whether it was said Caligari were going to fix it, or if someone discovered how to adjust it themselves [it depends on whether you can get to it in the LE, or if it's hard-coded]. http://homepage.ntlworld.com/alien42/smilies/dunno.gif
:)
Alien you kinda miss the point. It's not the icons that have become 'the' problem with TS. The problem is the interface in totality. Far, far too much clutter(spl) has developed with little to no refinement in most areas. It's much like the comparsions that are happening between American cars and other nations cars. Many programs have moved away from a complex interface towards one of simplicity, speed, and user friendliness. The new 'tab system' goes along way towards clearing off the interface, but it's completely offset by old tooling concepts.
Many programs have truely customizable interfaces. Very fun to see who develops what type of interfaces!
TOT!
Oh I found the SWEETEST zoom! Zoom to cursor like many 2D programs do. |
Post by Alien // May 9, 2006, 3:39pm
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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:)
Alien you kinda miss the point. It's not the icons that have become 'the' problem with TS. The problem is the interface in totality. Far, far too much clutter(spl) has developed with little to no refinement in most areas. It's much like the comparsions that are happening between American cars and other nations cars. Many programs have moved away from a complex interface towards one of simplicity, speed, and user friendliness. The new 'tab system' goes along way towards clearing off the interface, but it's completely offset by old tooling concepts.
I wasn't saying that icons were a problem, I was merely letting Penforhire know that there was an alternative to the icons. My only beefs with the interface are 1) the current lack of the ability to maximise toolbars, & 2) lack of mouse wheel support in stack view & on numerical entry fields where it has that draggable double arrow thing. |
Post by roman // May 12, 2006, 2:28pm
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roman
Total Posts: 320
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CADalyst just published a review of TS7 in their May issue, written by Ron LaFon. This is how it starts:
"After many years of reviewing software applications, I've become familiar with their steady evolution. Sometimes I get to see a familiar product break through boundaries and make a leap in functionality that offers tremendous potential for its future. Such is the case with Caligari's recently introduced trueSpace7. "
Full review is here:
http://management.cadalyst.com/aec/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=324996&searchString=caligari |
Post by splinters // May 12, 2006, 2:33pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I would say that even better is the closing statement;
If you haven't seen trueSpace for a while, now's the time to have another look. trueSpace7 is without a doubt the best trueSpace release ever—it provides a wealth of new tools and capabilities and lays the groundwork for much more to come. trueSpace7 easily earns the Cadalyst Highly Recommended rating.
About time too...;) |
Post by Délé // May 12, 2006, 2:57pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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That's great. It's nice to see a more positive review. I also liked seeing the TS7 flash banner. I would like to see more of those on 3d websites. :) |
Post by Mike // May 12, 2006, 5:01pm
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Mike
Total Posts: 121
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This CADalyst review is so nice to see. Another "gets it".
Congrats Caligari.
:banana: :banana: :banana: |
Post by xmanflash // May 12, 2006, 11:22pm
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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That's great. It's nice to see a more positive review. I also liked seeing the TS7 flash banner. I would like to see more of those on 3d websites. :)
Hmmm - good reviews, advertising revenue.. hmm... :banana: (Just kidding!) |
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