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DOF test/skyscraper render
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DOF test/skyscraper render // Work in Progress
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 5, 2006, 5:39pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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I've been messing with DOF and made this image, any suggestions? |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 5, 2006, 9:08pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Not sure what sort of comments you're after Brian. I can offer a few observations though.
First it feels a little empty at first glance. It could do with some more fine detail - a label on the bottle for example, maybe some more furniture in the background. You could try some more detailed textures on the skyscraper.
One other point - the lighting looks a little dull on my monitor.
From a compositional point of view it's not all that clear what the subject of the picture is. The depth of field causes the blurred background and this tends to confine the eye to the foreground (which is usually the whole purpose of DOF from a compositional point of view).
The eye is drawn to the bottle because of it's relative brightness but once the eye is there it doesn't have much to hold it.
Just my thoughts.
HTH |
Post by hultek43 // Apr 6, 2006, 5:22am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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I'd be inclined to agree with Wizard; I don't have a problem with the lighting though. Bottle needs a label. Where's the bottle cap? How come the bottle threads are going the wrong direction? The table's surface looks like it should be used for a floor.;) |
Post by frank // Apr 6, 2006, 6:39am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Hi Brian!
As far as the depth-of-field aspect, I would say that the table needs a touch of defocusing as well. Otherwise it sorta looks like really sharp, in-focus objects in front of a blurred picture/background.
One way to do DOF is to render a depth map (z-map) from that exact same viewpoint and bring that map into a paint program or NLE (Photoshop, After Effects). You can use it as a mask to blur only the parts of the scene farther away from the camera. The table should be white and gradually gray toward the end. You can of course adjust the depth map to get creative with your focusing.
If you don't have a depth map renderer, here's a good one:
http://www.primitiveitch.com/php/catalog.php?uiKeySearch=piAAZBufferTool+1.1& |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 6, 2006, 7:22am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Lol, I didn't notice that the lid was threaded wrong. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Apr 7, 2006, 3:31am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Was about to post as near as damnit the same as Frank said. This is how I do DOF as I like the control it gives as it's infinitely tweak-able. The Z Depth renderer from CK is the one that I use. It's a doddle to use, fast and free:
http://ckgamefactory.hp.infoseek.co.jp/tsxe/zrender.html
Not better than the PI one, just an alternative, see which one you suits you best. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 7, 2006, 10:42am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Ok, I think I got the blur right on this one. |
Post by hultek43 // Apr 7, 2006, 11:12am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Nitpick #1 Cap has no visible theads nor ridges on it
Nitpick #2 Light on floor from window doesn't look quite right to me
Nitpick #3 Shadows cast don't seem to line up if they're from the light through the windows |
Post by frank // Apr 7, 2006, 11:13am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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That one looks better to me.
Also, looks like the threads on the glue container are going the right direction now. ;) |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 7, 2006, 12:52pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Ok, think I fixed all of them. |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 11, 2006, 9:08pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Vastly improved Brian - well done.
The only comment I would make at this stage is that the nearground lighting doesn't quite look integrated with the backgound lighting - it does not look like the forground is lit by light from the window.
If the window is the only source of light the shadows around the bottle would have very soft edges. Also the light would have similar falloff characteristics on the rightmost side of the sky scraper as it does in the backgound.
If there is an additional lightsource (besides the window) - like a lamp inside the room - then there should be other cues to it's location and it should have a different temperature or colour to imply it's presence.
Of course I could be way off base here but that's what I see. Hope it helps. Good work though. You have implemented the various sugggestions very well. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 12, 2006, 10:00am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Ok I think I fixed it, my only objection is that it makes the bottle lid look like it's floating.:confused: |
Post by hultek43 // Apr 12, 2006, 11:54am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Maybe if you increase the curvature of the glue bottle at the bottom it would enhance the effect of it sitting on the table, maybe. No guarantees though. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 12, 2006, 5:11pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Nope didn't work, it just makes a floating glue bottle with a curved bottom.:p |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 12, 2006, 5:47pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Spot on IMHO - you certainly addressed the lighting issue I mentioned most effectively - and for what it's worth I didn't think the glue bottle looked likle it was floating until you suggested that it might!!:D
I think you've done a great job Brian - well done. Are you going to enter this in the Gallery? |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 12, 2006, 9:12pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Nope, I haven't paid for anything, therefore I don't think it would be right to enter. I've got to to remember to make these in the demo version.:p |
Post by Eido // Apr 12, 2006, 10:31pm
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Eido
Total Posts: 7
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The 'floating' bottle and cap are caused by the depth of field blur on the papers and the table.
If you take a horizontal line from the bottom of the bottle to the left of the image, you will see that, especially on the table, the DoF blur is not consistent. The blur on the table at an distance from the PoV equal to that of the bottle is far greaster than the blur on the bottle. Thi si what is giving thew flaoting illusion because the brain is trying to reconcile the conflicting depth cues.
I dont know if you are using the TS-inbuilt DoF routines or a PS distance-mask-cum-blur-filter method ut to my eye something is a bit screwwy.
Good image though, look forward to seeing you next one. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 13, 2006, 7:23am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Well, the bottle isn't blurred, just been resized and such. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 13, 2006, 7:27am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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full version http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/1583/21055.html? |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 13, 2006, 10:54am
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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OK I was reading the guide and found this,
Depth of Field
The buttons in the Depth of Field section function as follows: The on/off radio buttons enable and disable depth of field functionality respectively. The Focus field is used to set the sharpness of the image. Larger values result in images which are blurrier the further polygons are from the focal point. The F. Dist field sets the distance from the current eye/camera position to the focal point of the image. This distance goes straight into the screen Z axis and follows the World units. If the current frame has a Look At key, then the focal point will be the axes of the object being looked at and the Focal Distance field will be ignored
Anybody know what a look at key is and how to use it? |
Post by spacekdet // Apr 13, 2006, 5:47pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Take a 'look at' this: http://www.spacekdet.com/tutorials/look_at_tut/
If you've never used a Porta generated album,
You can click the larger images for an 800X600 higher resolution view; click again to close.
Use Next/Previous to navigate or click the thumbnails along the left edge.
Made with tS 6.6, Wink and Porta. |
Post by brianalldridge // Apr 14, 2006, 2:41pm
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brianalldridge
Total Posts: 397
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Ok, the look at tool didn't work so well, but I think I fixed the floating bottle thing.
Full version: http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/1583/21055.html? |
Post by KeithC // Apr 14, 2006, 2:51pm
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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It's weird, I only started to notice the floating since it was mentioned. There's not really any shadow to denote a floating effect, but it still looks that way. Maybe if it had a more definitive shadow around the base of the bottle and lid.
-Keith |
Post by geneg // Apr 14, 2006, 3:59pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Brian:
I don't know of any restrictions on submiting renders for the Caligallery, other than what is stated.
"How To Enter"
"Create a still image or an animation using ANY Caligari product as your primary tool. You may use other programs to create texture maps, crop, and scale your rendered images, and assemble animation clips into one animation. You may also use trueSpace plug-ins. You need to specify the codec used if submitting an animation. We are looking for animations and images that make the most of our software's capabilities, and present them in an eye-pleasing manner. Animations must be no larger than 15Mb in size, and images should be in JPG format and 800x600 (or very close to those dimensions) in size. Animations or images outside of these requirements may be cropped or resized."
I understand that you are using the Demo version of tS, not sure what version that is, but I certainly see no reason why you couldn't enter the contest and it doesn't look like Caligari would mind either. In fact I think you should enter, who knows, you might win something :)
Anybody else got an opinion? Roman?
bye
geneg |
Post by W!ZARD // Apr 15, 2006, 11:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Brian
Here's a suggestion (FWIW) that may help to counter the 'floating' effect. You could try rotating the blueprint to the left a little and add a touch of reflection to the worksurface texture. This might suggest a formica type of worksurface but the important thing is the hint of reflection should act to tie the bottle and bottletop to the worksurface.
I dunno what this would do to your background and DOF effects though. Presumably if the bottle reflects then so would the background and I understand you are adding your DOF as a post process rather than in tS directly.
The only other suggestion I can offer is to chamfer or otherwise curve the bottom of the bottle a little just to create a slightly darker bottom that might act to defeat the floating illusion.
Even if you are using tS3.2 you should DEFINITELY enter it in the gallery - getting results like this with tS3.2 is no easy matter and you are IMHO certainly showcasing the capabilities of Caligari's product - even if it is an older version.
Bravo to you for working it through this far - great work Dude! |
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