Heroes Vs Villains

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Heroes Vs Villains // Work in Progress

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Post by Breech Block // Apr 20, 2009, 1:25pm

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Okay, this thread is where I am going to concentrate my efforts in my new found love of trying to model characters in tS. At the moment, I'm pretty much near the bottom of the ladder when it comes to the skills needed for character modelling but hopefully, through this thread, I'll be able to change that (and hopefully help/inspire some others along the way). The basic idea behind the thread's title - Heroes versus Villains, is that initially I will do a hero type character and here I will be modelling well inside my comfort zone. And then, the challenge for me will be to come up with the character's nemesis, the villain if you will. I'm hoping that this way, it will force me to explore new areas and techniques that perhaps I wouldn't do normally.


First up Snoopy. Now okay, so this is a model from a recent SMC entry. However, it has been revamped with an extensive tidying up of the mesh and textures plus all the bits I never had time for in the SMC have been added such as exhaust pipes and gun mounts. Its also about as basic as a character model can get and thus seemed an ideal place to begin (like I said, I'm at the bottom of the ladder here). In addition, it gets this thread off to a flying start (no pun intended) and forces me to get cracking on the Red Baron, something that for reasons unknown I have been avoiding for the last several weeks.

Post by Steinie // Apr 20, 2009, 1:47pm

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I am going to enjoy this thread! Nice work so far.

Clever way to challenge yourself.


(Nice to see your work at 3DArtist too btw):)

Post by Nez // Apr 20, 2009, 10:17pm

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Looking good so far Breech - I really liked what you did with this for the SMC so interested to see you developing it further. Perhaps you could show a few screenies showing the mesh for Snoopy from a few different views so we can see what he looks like before and after SDS (with no texture) - part of the art in (organic) characters is good polygon flow, not something I've figured out yet...

I'm still sticking with mechanical creations for any character creations so far (and still have some more planned, though no time to carry out) but think I reallly need to progress my organic modelling, so I'll be watching with interest...

Post by Breech Block // Apr 21, 2009, 3:23am

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Thanks Steinie. I'm looking forward to your insights and comments.


Cheers Nez. I'll root about and see if I have kept any pre SDS scenes. Don't think they will be much good though as it was pretty fast and furious stuff because of the time restraints of the SMC. Couldn't find any pics of him front on either. In fact, the time constraint helped me pick Snoopy and him in flying mode was a deliberate choice - no ears, no eyes and no mouth. :D


Nice flowing topology is something I will be definately be aiming for in the long run though.

Post by Mr. 3d // Apr 21, 2009, 7:36am

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...Perhaps you could show a few screenies showing the mesh for Snoopy from a few different views so we can see what he looks like before and after SDS (with no texture)

I'd be much more interested in your material and texture flowchart and if you're doing it all in truespace or using a separate application.
In any case, I'm interested to see what characters you create here !

Post by Breech Block // Apr 21, 2009, 9:43am

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Nez - Sorry mate, I wiped all my Snoopy scenes bar the final one. As I have said before, I never save over a file so end up with hundreds during the course of a build. As soon as final image gets posted I delete all but the final scene. I'll post some pre SDS wires of The Red Baron when I get started (Which may be a while as the missus has convinced me the bedroom needs redecorating - Doh!). :mad:


Mr.3D - Nothing complicated or clever I'm afraid to say. With the exception of the propeller which has an Alpha Mask, the whole model is covered in single layer textures which use the matt reflectance shader on its default settings. tS's built in UV mapping editor was used to create all the UV maps which were exported to PaintShop Pro (version 7) for painting. And that's about it. Very basic and very cheap.

Post by Mr. 3d // Apr 21, 2009, 10:25am

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..With the exception of the propeller which has an Alpha Mask, the whole model is covered in single layer textures which use the matt reflectance shader on its default settings. tS's built in UV mapping editor was used to create all the UV maps which were exported to PaintShop Pro

I haven't textured this way yet, that's why I was asking. So far, I use the Material Library and texture each separate object as a whole. I've played with texturing separate faces on one object, but have not run into the need to use it yet, considering that I model in a compilation of separate parts (rather than one lump that needs separate textures on different quads or faces).

Post by Rafa // Apr 21, 2009, 10:59am

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This model is nice.

Maybe some projected shadows? :)

Post by Nez // Apr 21, 2009, 10:10pm

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Nez - Sorry mate, I wiped all my Snoopy scenes bar the final one. As I have said before, I never save over a file so end up with hundreds during the course of a build. As soon as final image gets posted I delete all but the final scene. I'll post some pre SDS wires of The Red Baron when I get started (Which may be a while as the missus has convinced me the bedroom needs redecorating - Doh!). :mad:


No worries about the wires - it wasn't so much Snoopy as any character stuff you do - I find views of the mesh very informative as I want to try to improve my own ply flow. As for decorating - I know the feeling; our bay window is in the process of being deconstrutced so we can install insulation in that part of the wall...


Mr.3D - Nothing complicated or clever I'm afraid to say. With the exception of the propeller which has an Alpha Mask, the whole model is covered in single layer textures which use the matt reflectance shader on its default settings. tS's built in UV mapping editor was used to create all the UV maps which were exported to PaintShop Pro (version 7) for painting. And that's about it. Very basic and very cheap.


Interesting - you're using the tS UV editor (on model-side)? I've heard a lot of moaning about it but not sure if that was model side or workspace (or both!) and haven't used it yet. I looked at the version in tS5 a while back and didn't seem to get anywhere, so I generally just use planar/cubic/cylindrical etc mapping as best suits the shape for any 'handpainted' textures...

Post by robert // Apr 22, 2009, 1:51pm

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Great idea you have here!

I'm thinking, with my need to learn character modeling, that I will model along side you.
Seeing as how my character modeling is almost non-existent.
I won't really be posting anything unless someone else gets stuck following along, after all this is your thread.

Post by Breech Block // Apr 22, 2009, 3:33pm

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Crikey! No pressure then, robert.:D Hey, seriously, please join in, sounds like it could be good fun. Right then, by my calculations your one dog and one bi-plane down. :p

Post by robert // Apr 22, 2009, 4:38pm

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You're also at least two hours up.:p;)

:) I'll get something posted within, approximately, the next 25hrs. :D

Post by Breech Block // Apr 23, 2009, 10:20am

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Great news robert. Anybody else wanna join in the fun?

Post by robert // Apr 23, 2009, 12:54pm

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Lol, look what I found: http://www.dafont.com/snoopy-dings.font

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 23, 2009, 1:03pm

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I might, Breech. Making villains can be fun. Mwhahahaha! :D

Is it limited to the Snoopy theme or can we make any hero/villain that strikes our fancy?

Post by robert // Apr 23, 2009, 2:16pm

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I hope to post a Snoopy today, but I got some logic work from my Math Team teacher so...

Jack, we're just modeling Snoopy because he is such a basic character.:p
You can do whatever you want.;)
The aim of this thread is to improve character modeling skills of all those who wish to participate.:)
If you want to start "a little higher on the ladder" please do so as we can try and replicate what you have instead of coming up with something ourselves.:p

Post by Breech Block // Apr 23, 2009, 3:06pm

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Is it limited to the Snoopy theme or can we make any hero/villain that strikes our fancy?


I'm hoping to go on and create a whole range of Heroes and Villains. Initially, I was going to do character sets from the movies or TV; mainly because of the shear wealth of reference material available. As my skills progressed, I'm then hoping to go on and create my own characters. I think the main difficulty I will face is picking the right pair of characters to do each time I start. By that I mean finding a a pair that slowly ramp up the level of detail involved. So, to anyone following this thread, you might find there are quite a few masks involved early on in order to hide the hard detailing like ears and mouths. And that is pretty much why this topic seemed the ideal choice to learn character modelling. :D


Robert put it perfectly when he said "if you want to start higher up the ladder" and like him, I would also be very intrested to see what (and how) you create.

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 23, 2009, 3:31pm

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Works for me. This is a great idea Breech, and it definitely has the potential to become one of the coolest threads on the forum. :D

Post by Breech Block // Apr 26, 2009, 1:44pm

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Thanks Jack, here's hoping.


Well, here is a very early WIP screenie of The Red Baron. That thing around his neck will be a cape eventually once I can figure it out. This has taken twice as long as the whole Snoopy model so far and I'm far from convinced it's suitable. Any feedback greatly appreciated.

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 26, 2009, 3:29pm

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It looks very good. You need some extra loops around the inside of the glasses frame to solve that odd shading your getting. Also you should rework it so you don't get that pole at the center of the lens.

Looks like I'm going to be full bore into web development this week so not sure when I'll get a chance to start mine. Chances are that I'm going to need to take a break though, and I'll try to get it started then. ;)

Post by Breech Block // Apr 26, 2009, 6:34pm

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Thanks Jack. I think I have got it sorted now. I just ripped out half the geometry; that always seems to work for me. ;)

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 26, 2009, 9:05pm

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Looks great now. :D SDS is always touchy about those edge loops and poles. :o

A cool tip to use when you need to create a loop inside an existing loop but the geometry inside isn't clean, is to merge all the polygons inside where you want to put the extra loop into a single face (make sure to delete any stray verts -- or you can delete it all then use create face ;)), then the bevel tool can be used to place an inset loop. Afterwards the you can either use the quadrify tool or redo the geometry by hand with the Add Polygons tool.

Another useful tip is to get better normals for flat areas where they transition into curves is to always add an extra loop outside the curve so that the flat area keeps it's flat normals.

Post by Breech Block // Apr 28, 2009, 2:47pm

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Thanks Jack. Y'know what is really weird. When I read your post yesterday, I can honestly say I didn't understand a single word of it.:o Yet today, I read it again and it all made perfect sense. So, a big thanks for all that (even if it is slightly delayed while my brain catches up).


Cracked on with the Baron's body today and had huge problems trying to re-scale everything to fit it into the cockpit. Sorted it finally and now just need to do some gauntlets and work on the cape a bit more. Then it will be onto sorting out the UV mapping.


Must admit to still not being completly happy with the character though. Considering he is suppose to be an inhabitant of the snoopy universe, perhaps he is a bit too human looking. The other thing is, when you hide facial features such as eyes, eyebrows and mouth, its very hard to get the thing to come to life.


Perhaps a more rounded nose would look better. Anyone got any thoughts/suggestions.

Post by v3rd3 // Apr 28, 2009, 3:01pm

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I like the shape of the cowling it looks very much like the original.....:D

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 28, 2009, 3:40pm

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Heh, I used to say the same thing about Tomasb's posts. Strangely I understand them now... well most of the time... lol.

Curving the mustach down more towards the edges should help make him look a bit more "evil". The glove style will likely be an important characteristic. These kind of villains need to wear "gentleman's" gloves. ;)

Other than that, I'm sure your cool texture style will bring him to life. :D

Post by Georg // Apr 28, 2009, 10:00pm

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Somehow I overlooked this thread but this is impressive, Breech Block.

Perhaps a bigger nose and enlarging the head somewhat compared to the body. That will give it a bit more cartoon-like style and more resembling the Snoopy figure.

The textures on your plane are a bit pixelated/low resolution at this size.

Can't wait to see your textures!


Georg

Post by Steinie // Apr 29, 2009, 2:00am

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Looks like your model was based on these renderings. (and these Models based on the Computer Game) Here (fourth image from the end) there is no mustache and the real Red Baron didn't have a mustache either. The focus in the Snoopy Cartoon was more on the Plane then who was in it. The scarf in this example covers his face. Depending on the look your after I would bring out his cheeks (he has none in your model) drop the goggles onto his nose, and work his arm better. His upper arm is too short so he is unable to reach the stick.

http://polygonpete.blogspot.com/2007/08/snoopy-vs-red-baron.html

Post by Breech Block // Apr 30, 2009, 1:47pm

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Thanks very much for all the great tips and ideas guys. Although I have been mainly working on the gauntlets tonight, I still managed to add a couple of the suggeseted tweeks. I think I'll try and create 3 or 4 different versions and you can tell me what bits you like. Anyhows, here is the latest version:

Post by robert // Apr 30, 2009, 2:11pm

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Sorry guys, I still don't have a Snoopy.

Been working on stuff for school and the basics of particles via scripting in workspace.

Post by Breech Block // May 2, 2009, 8:33am

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Here are a few variations on the Baron. Anybody have a favourite figure or feature? Or non-favourite for that matter. :D
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