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Pathway to Righteousness
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Pathway to Righteousness // Work in Progress
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 1:16am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Here are a few screenies of my newest scene I have been working on over the holidays. Need to do more with it but this gives you an idea of where I am going (unless I change my mind :D)
Top one is the most recent version
Bottom is the initial render
I must admit that I like the lighting in the initial one but it did not match the light source (sun) in the distance.
One of the things that I am trying to figure out now is the best way to indicate that the ground doesn't just end. Where you see the ground ending in the background is supposed to be a hill that gradually takes you out of view once you go over it. Any suggestions????
I also need to still figure out how to make the wire along the fence sag in areas. I have not mastered that little trick yet either.
Also, shout out to Weevil for his puddle tutorial. Worked great and I am happy with the results. You may need to really look for the puddles but they are there. |
Post by Weevil // Dec 30, 2008, 3:48am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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I see mah puddles!. Glad to see that it helped (and glad to see it can be used in other scenes)
I think the lighting in your first screenies did in fact fit, better than the second, the light was in the right direction (coming from the front and left a bit) and colour, just missing some shadows and maybe the angle wasn't quite as flat, but I know why they're missing in this shot.
You may need to tilt the scene downwards a bit, its almost at the same angle as the backing plate, (btw, is that a terragen background?)
I think maybe you could get away with making the terrain you've made crest before dissapearing, and maybe add a bit of fog that matches the same colour as the shadows on the mountain in the background. Or you could just slope it downwards and add some DOF?
Your fence issue, how have you made the wires? If they're cubes, you could try the deform tool, and add a few quad divides so it sags.
It looks really good already, I like how you can get your textures to fit really well |
Post by rjeff // Dec 30, 2008, 4:40am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok tahnoak you can use the cloth sim for this. You need to add cloth fixation points at the end of the rope and that may make it sag right. I am not sure, but it is worth a try. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 5:07am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I see mah puddles!. Glad to see that it helped (and glad to see it can be used in other scenes)
I think the lighting in your first screenies did in fact fit, better than the second, the light was in the right direction (coming from the front and left a bit) and colour, just missing some shadows and maybe the angle wasn't quite as flat, but I know why they're missing in this shot.
You may need to tilt the scene downwards a bit, its almost at the same angle as the backing plate, (btw, is that a terragen background?)
I think maybe you could get away with making the terrain you've made crest before dissapearing, and maybe add a bit of fog that matches the same colour as the shadows on the mountain in the background. Or you could just slope it downwards and add some DOF?
Your fence issue, how have you made the wires? If they're cubes, you could try the deform tool, and add a few quad divides so it sags.
It looks really good already, I like how you can get your textures to fit really well
As always Weevil, thanks for the focused feedback. I greatly appreciate it. Yeah, I much prefer that initial lighting but with the sun in the position that it is it makes it opposite of where the light is.
Yep, I do need to tilt it somewhat. I had it tilted but in my neverending quest for perfection (and a couple of system lock-ups) I lost my angle.
Yes, that is Terragen you see back there. :D
I used cylinders for the wires, would cubes work better?
Great idea about cresting and adding some fog or even DOF for the terrain. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 5:08am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Ok tahnoak you can use the cloth sim for this. You need to add cloth fixation points at the end of the rope and that may make it sag right. I am not sure, but it is worth a try.
Hey rjeff, I have tried the cloth sim but I think since I was using cylinders it only grabbed part of the object and it sagged alright but it was all deformed and looked like, well you know what it looked like :D |
Post by Weevil // Dec 30, 2008, 5:13am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Cylinders work good, I only use cubes because then I can get all SubD and make the shape I want while still getting a low enough poly mesh, and there's no worries with extruding any of its faces without it looking odd. Remember the help I gave you about the wires in my corridor scene? I would suggest that if cloth sim don't work for you.
You're lights, I think you've got them right, justnot sure what you meant in your first sentence, you say that you've actually set up the lights in the opposite direction? |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 5:31am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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In my initial render the infinity lights were casting light from right to left; however, if you look at my background you see the sun which means the light should be coming from upper left to lower right to match the source.
I will try again with the cylinders and then give the cube thing a try again. Thanks. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Dec 30, 2008, 5:41am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Sagging the wires: use the Bend tool. Job done. |
Post by Weevil // Dec 30, 2008, 5:46am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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I think I'm with you, your light shines from top right to bottom left, but it looks like you've got the light facing completely the wrong way in the second one, it looks like its casting from foreground right, to background left. Because the side of the posts facing us should be in shadow, not lit up.
Feel free to correct me on that, its just what I see |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 6:26am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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WWOTW...nice idea. I am hit and miss with that dang thing. Sometimes I can do it perfectly and other times it just expands outward. I will add that to my list. Thanks!!! |
Post by Finis // Dec 30, 2008, 6:30am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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I guess the cloth simulation would give a physically accurate sag for a highly flexible object. The wires are often bent where they are loose so the sag may not be so perfect.
If you use the SDS method you can extract the control mesh after shaping the wire or other object and there won't be any more polygons than you started with. Not that this one needs to be low poly.
The wires all connect at the same height on each post. I think that should vary a little.
No expert advice here about a distant look for the hill or land. What I can think of is Depth of Field which would blur items far from the focal plane, Depth Cue (sp?) which fades colors in the distance and looks kind of like fog, or use fog. I see the fence posts on the right are on the crest of the hill. That means that the top of the hill is no farther away than the fence posts. Extending the crest of the hill beyond any foreground object would help with depth.
How did you do your ground texture? I have trouble doing that. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Dec 30, 2008, 6:39am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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make sure you have some geometry in there for it to bend, more loops=better result. You might also try the soft selection tool in the WS side as another alternative. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 7:04am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Thanks for all the excellent feedback and suggestions.
As for the ground texture I got a couple of images from cgtextures.com
Used GIMP and added them as layers in one image and then used an alpha mask to remove a pattern of a winding path so the bottom layer (cracked earth) came through the dead grass layer. Some areas are alpha'd more than others so it would blend better. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 7:37am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Sagging the wires: use the Bend tool. Job done.
Can I bend individual parts of a long cylinder? I created a cylinder which ran along a path to be the wire. when I use the bend tool it flares up both ends but does not touch the middle. |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 30, 2008, 7:49am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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You'll need some geometry along the length to allow the bend to affect it.
I.E., if it's just one long cylinder with only a top and bottom face, the Bend tool doesn't have enough to work with.
Use Slice to add some edges- but not too many.
For me, I've had the best luck making wires, etc using the NURBS toolset.
Loft a small diameter circle along a second curve. It's a simple matter to adjust the curve point's handles to create beautiful sweeping lines. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 8:46am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Excellent, I will add that to my "toolkit" of things to try and understand what they do. Thanks. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 8:49am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I think I'm with you, your light shines from top right to bottom left, but it looks like you've got the light facing completely the wrong way in the second one, it looks like its casting from foreground right, to background left. Because the side of the posts facing us should be in shadow, not lit up.
Feel free to correct me on that, its just what I see
Nope Weevil, you got it. The first render was done without any intention of putting the sun where it was. After I made the background in Terragen I decided I liked the sun position and wanted to base my lighting off that. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 30, 2008, 8:53am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Maybe abit harder than what Space or WW suggested, but you could do a macro sweep. Draw your path and sweep a small cylinder along that path. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 9:23am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Another cool trick. Thanks! |
Post by Finis // Dec 30, 2008, 10:11am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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I went for a short hike this morning and intended to take reference photos of fences for you. There are fence pics all over the web of course but I could look specifically for sagging areas.
I discovered that even an old seldom maintained fence has few sags. It was all pretty tight except where there was damage or wires were detached from the posts. Where the wire was loose it had more or less straight segments between bends or had remnants of the original coiled shape. The loose wires were displaced horizontally too.
In a half mile or so I found one place that resembled a "power line" sag. Note the reinforcing double helix vertical wire.
http://www.phosphorgallery.com/storage/Fence_1.jpg
Here is corner construction. Diagonal wires tighten the corner by twisting them with a stick.
http://www.phosphorgallery.com/storage/FenceCorner.jpg |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 30, 2008, 11:07am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Wow, thank you Finis. Great stuff. You all are going to make an honest modeler out of me yet! :) |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 31, 2008, 1:11am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Updated screenshot. Still tweaking the wires along the fence. Happier with the way they look. I have not focused on the sag so much as removing the uniformity of their appearance.
I also added some DOF but I think I may need to tweak that a little more. I think the focus plane needs to be a bit further back, maybe at the standing post. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 31, 2008, 4:55am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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looking better I must say. |
Post by TomG // Dec 31, 2008, 6:31am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Yes, big improvement! I think this is better than sag, having the more rigid wire that's become distorted in many different ways. Gives a much better impression of wear and tear and age.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Dec 31, 2008, 7:25am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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I agree! Wire in fences are relatively stiff. Sorta halfway between string and piano wire. Sagging between posts would be more like string or rope than fence wire.
If you ever did run across the case of sagging string, rope, or cable strung across significant distance then there's an object for that in the "Objects - Base" library. If not the exact style of rope you're looking for it could serve as a guide object.
A very nice project you've got here! |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 31, 2008, 7:30am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Yes, big improvement! I think this is better than sag, having the more rigid wire that's become distorted in many different ways. Gives a much better impression of wear and tear and age.
HTH!
Tom
Thanks Tom.
I agree that the bent and mishapen wire is probably more representative of the kinds of wear and tear that would happen when animals or farm equipment run into a fence like that. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 31, 2008, 7:31am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I agree! Wire in fences are relatively stiff. Sorta halfway between string and piano wire. Sagging between posts would be more like string or rope than fence wire.
If you ever did run across the case of sagging string, rope, or cable strung across significant distance then there's an object for that in the "Objects - Base" library. If not the exact style of rope you're looking for it could serve as a guide object.
A very nice project you've got here!
Thanks ProfessorKhaos, I appreciate it. I can feel I am close to finishing this one off.
I was not aware of that object in the base library. Admittedly I have never really looked at the base library objects. I will certainly check that out. |
Post by Finis // Dec 31, 2008, 8:02am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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@ tahnoak - Don't you ever make a bad picture?
I think the sun should not be behind the tall post or any other object ... except partially behind the mountain of course. The posts look like thick boards. If not round or logs they would probably be roughly equal width and thickness like a 4x4. The shadows need to point at the sun. They are currently pointing to the left of the sun.
@ ProffesorKhaos! Owner of the most awesome avatar ever. Haven't seen you post in a long time. |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 31, 2008, 8:15am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Finis...thanks, and I make plenty of bad pictures but those are stored in my "don't even think about posting this garbage" directory. :)
I am not sure about the sun. I kind of like that it is obscured by the post because it is VERY bright and I don't want it to be the focus of the image.
Good catch on the shadows. I have been trying to get those perfect without much success yet.
As for the posts, those are going to be essentially the finish touches. They will become part of an old dilapidated wooden sign which spans the pathway and reads something illegible..I can't quite make out what it says...guess everyone will just have to wonder :D |
Post by Finis // Dec 31, 2008, 8:33am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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I thought the sun was the, or a, focus of the picture but since it is not then the post thing is ok.
I thought the sun represented righteousness (so the shadows pointing at it would be saying, "that's the goal, the destination".) Even then it would need to be less bright. In that case it would need to be unobscured. Otherwise it would say, "I'm walking this path but I don't know where I'm going." |
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