Yaf(a)Ray 4 Truespace development info thread!

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Yaf(a)Ray 4 Truespace development info thread! // The Garage

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Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 14, 2009, 5:21pm

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Great! Glad you got it working Kena! :jumpy:
Looks like diffuse and bump maps are working fine for you as well. Any issues with the texture scaling settings? I didn't really get any time to test those.

Post by kena // Feb 14, 2009, 6:05pm

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No other problems so far Jack. Everyone who worked on this did a very good job!


hey clintonman,

your "preview" only seems to show the last render. Any way it can show a preview before you render?

Post by clintonman // Feb 14, 2009, 7:46pm

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No other problems so far Jack. Everyone who worked on this did a very good job!

hey clintonman,
your "preview" only seems to show the last render. Any way it can show a preview before you render?
I don't understand. Is it that you want to look through the camera before rendering? If so you can open a new 3d window and set it's size to match the render width and height.
Edit: that trick only works if you are using a scene camera or you set the default 3d view to a link editor view to force the renderer to use the new view.

Post by kena // Feb 14, 2009, 7:50pm

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I don't understand. Is it that you want to look through the camera before rendering? If so you can open a new 3d window and set it's size to match the render width and height.

Edit: that trick only works if you are using a scene camera or you set the default 3d view to a link editor view to force the renderer to use the new view.


No, actually, I wanted a preview similar to the one that you used to get with post-process in lightworks

Post by clintonman // Feb 14, 2009, 8:16pm

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No, actually, I wanted a preview similar to the one that you used to get with post-process in lightworks

I don't think that's possible since yafaray is external to truespace. Maybe Jack could comment on it.

Post by SiW // Feb 14, 2009, 8:22pm

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Great work here, look forward to seeing more tests and actual renders.


:banana::banana::banana:

Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 14, 2009, 8:24pm

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Rendering a preview is the same as rendering anything else. So you could get a smaller render simply by setting the width and height to smaller values.

I guess it could be useful to have a "render preview" button that renders a fixed (small) size without the pop-up cmd window and is loaded into a TS brick or window to see. :shrug:

I don't know if that would be a priority to implement anytime soon though.

@Simon, thanks!

Post by clintonman // Feb 14, 2009, 8:35pm

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Not the prettiest picture, but shows a workaround for hair and some skeleton meshes. The hair is self evident and the rhino has a skeleton and has been posed.

The TRICK: If you add an sds layer these items will render.

Edit: if the poly count is too high you can reset sds and they still render.

Post by Délé // Feb 15, 2009, 4:07am

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Interesting find Clinton. Nice workaround until we get skeletons properly implemented. ;)

Post by tahnoak // Feb 15, 2009, 9:43am

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My thanks to everyone who worked on this. I've been able to install it and run some renders. Since I was not a Vray user or really a serious Yafray user there is a bit of a learning curve for me and it is forcing me to dive into the Workspace side as well.


Again, many thanks to everyone who worked so hard on this. :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:



First test render.... any thoughts on why this is so dark. Let me know what settings you need me to relay. Believe it or not this is supposed to be the inside of the hangar scene. I have to yafray area lights inside and a regular infinite light.

Post by Délé // Feb 15, 2009, 10:50am

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Glad you got up and running tahnoak. :)


You might want to try changing the lighting method to "Photon Mapping". Maybe check the "Use Background" checkbox. Then you could increase the lighting by increasing the background "power" in the background panel.


You might just have to crank up the lights too, especially if your scene is large.


Maybe even try playing with the Sun/Sky settings.


Yaf(a)Ray is still pretty new to all of us. It's definitely going to take some time and experimentation to get good with it. I'm sure we'll all learn lot from each other over the next few months. :)

Post by tahnoak // Feb 15, 2009, 12:10pm

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Thanks Dele, and again a big thanks to everyone for plugging along (pardon the pun) through making this happen.

Post by robert // Feb 15, 2009, 12:10pm

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Learning very much, I am going to be making a test render with this sometime soon (I hope).


Aiming to transition from Vray eventually, seeing as it is no longer being kept up.:(

Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 15, 2009, 1:44pm

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Couple things to check:

1.) Point lights seem to need really high power settings. (Not sure about area lights)
2.) Make sure your scene is to scale. Yafaray uses physically accurate lighting.
3.) Make sure your materials don't have diffuse reflect set at 0.0. ;)

Post by tahnoak // Feb 15, 2009, 2:59pm

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Here is an updated screenie messing around with the settings that Dele told me. I will keep tweaking. Obviously more stuff I have to check.

Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 15, 2009, 3:15pm

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Couple of tips:


I find "Direct Lighting" give you the cleanest results. (But requires that the light directly light the surface -- like with Lightworks.)
3.5 Million+ photons are needed to get clean caustics.
IBL tends to give really grainy results. (I think either blurry low res or very high res IBL/HDRI images may be needed.)
If your diffuse is set too high (1.0) then you get "glow" at corners where the surfaces meet. Also as a general rule of thumb diffuse + reflectance should equal 1.0.
If you use Photon mapping you will probably need higher AA settings to offset the noise.
Reflective surfaces bounce more light but take longer to render.

Post by kena // Feb 15, 2009, 3:32pm

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OK - found a bug.


The Gamma preview settings are backwards


In the following pics, the first shows what is in TS and the second overlays the actual picture once it is rendered.


all the other boards are set with a gamma of 2,20, but this one is 1.20


18287


18288

Post by Délé // Feb 15, 2009, 5:20pm

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In early beta testing I thought that was a mistake too, but Jack informed me that this is in fact correct. It is used for linear workflow.


http://wiki.yafray.org/bin/view.pl/UserDoc/LinearWorkflow

Post by transient // Feb 15, 2009, 5:38pm

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Linear workflow is fairly advanced stuff, and it isn't used by everybody. Maybe a non-linear setup could be used as the default settings?


This is a big plus for yafaray, though.

Post by kena // Feb 15, 2009, 5:43pm

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ok then.. how are we supposed to lighten/darken our textures within TS then?

Post by Délé // Feb 15, 2009, 5:54pm

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I don't see why we couldn't add a checkbox to enable/disable linear workflow, so when disabled it would use the same gamma as in tS.

Post by transient // Feb 15, 2009, 6:17pm

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ok then.. how are we supposed to lighten/darken our textures within TS then?


If you open an image in gimp, you can manually set the gamma by going to color-> levels. The middle bar of the input levels corresponds to gamma.

Post by kena // Feb 15, 2009, 6:58pm

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If you open an image in gimp, you can manually set the gamma by going to color-> levels. The middle bar of the input levels corresponds to gamma.

But my question is how are we supposed to do it in TS. I can do it in GIMP and in Texture maker and photoshop and MapZone.


Is it "acceptable" to change the gamma in TS to lighten and darken the texture?

It's really hard to determine a good workflow if I have to go to an external program 12 or 13 times to change how light the texture looks. Especially as in Texture maker, the texture is actually just as light as the final result shown in my previous post.

Post by transient // Feb 15, 2009, 8:01pm

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I really don't know how this would work in ts, but I believe Vray for max allows for this. You don't have to use linear workflow, anyway.

Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 15, 2009, 10:18pm

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LOL I was going to suggest the same thing as Transient. But his screen grab was classic! :p

Seriously, the point of the gamma parameter is to tell Yafaray what the correct gamma value that the image was created at is. It's not meant to adjust the brightness or darkness of the texture. Infact you would probably get poorer results using it that way.

That's also why value textures like bumpmaps and specmaps and such are set at 1.0 gamma.

I currently have TS's material shaders set up to compensate the tS realtime display for images with gamma values other than 2.2 by adjusting them to 2.2 for display. I could add a checkbox to dissable this feature if it was desired.

As for brightening or darkening a texture and multi-layer textures, a lot of that can be handled after we implement the node based Yafaray materials. You can see the parameters for the Yafaray engine here:
http://wiki.yafray.org/bin/view.pl/UserDoc/YafaRayParameters

Post by nowherebrain // Feb 16, 2009, 7:43am

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I tried it out, no luck...I'm getting the same error as the other person with the command prompt unable to locat a file "pause"? or a directory...btw winXP is installed on E:, that is my boot drive.

Post by kena // Feb 16, 2009, 9:56am

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yes,,, once the full Yaf(a)ray is implemented, it looks like it can be done.

Post by RAYMAN // Feb 16, 2009, 10:24am

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Cant get the shaders to look right...

you can see the difference.....m realtime and setting and render....

Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 16, 2009, 12:21pm

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@ Nowherebrain, you need to set up your directories in the directories tab. You also need to set the output (on the Default tab) to where you want to save the file. Since a lot of people are having trouble with this, the next release will get the Yafaray directory automatically from the system registry and will set up a working directory in the User's My Documents folder. I'm also going to add an option to automatically spawn an image viewer on render completion.

@ Rayman, the realtime is just something we made up to look sort of like the render for convienence. You should set the values for how you want it to look in the render instead. Keep in mind there are no reflections or bounced light in realtime.

Post by jrboddie // Feb 16, 2009, 1:13pm

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@Jack:


The button next to the output path in the Render Settings Default tab brings up an 'Open' dialog. I believe that a 'Save' dialog would be preferable because the Open Dialog requires a file for output to be in existence.
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