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Light Manager & Scatter
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Light Manager & Scatter // The Garage
Post by stan // Jul 30, 2006, 6:05pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Richard R has kindly post two free plugins on his site..Light Manager and Scatter
http://remnar.home.comcast.net/software.htm
they are very cool plugins..one does just about anything you want with lights..the other can be used to make polygon grass, hair and other neat particle effects....:D |
Post by remnar // Aug 25, 2006, 7:21pm
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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I'm working on bugs I've found and should have an update in a day or so.
Edit: it's taking me longer than planned. I have been doing other things that came to mind. Including trying to update other software so it'll be awhile before I can update this sorry. |
Post by Steinie // Aug 26, 2006, 2:25am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Thanks guys, will put them to use and let you know the results. |
Post by stan // Aug 28, 2006, 12:54pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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here's a few things scatter can do..the hair is crude, nearly looks like my grass :D |
Post by Steinie // Aug 28, 2006, 4:36pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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It not only Scatters it Collects!;) |
Post by stan // Aug 29, 2006, 3:48am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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mite-y cool Steinie..:rolleyes: |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 30, 2006, 3:56am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I'm working on bugs I've found and should have an update in a day or so.
Edit: it's taking me longer than planned. I have been doing other things that came to mind. Including trying to update other software so it'll be awhile before I can update this sorry.
These are great plugins! The interface is top notch. Thank you. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 1, 2006, 4:51pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Here you go Richard R (and Gord). A scatter rendering in TS 7.11
p.s. It seems when you close TS and reopen.... the text is missing next to the buttons in Scatter panel. I have to get rid of the plugin icon (click x next to icon) then start scatter over to get the text back.
Thanks for a very nice plugin!:) |
Post by GraySho // Sep 3, 2006, 8:35am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Now that looks cool Steinie. I have to look into that scatter plugin, seems to be capable of doing nice stuff.
Edit: Agree about the interface, very well done. |
Post by remnar // Sep 6, 2006, 2:26am
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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Cool stuff. Plugins are updated.
http://remnar.home.comcast.net
As for these wierd interface bugs, I really need a extra hand who knows Delphi. I had problems like this before. I have greatly improved my code since then. I don't seem to have these interface glitches, and why it happens on ts7, I don't know. I'm aware of the glitch with the list view scroll bars. This could be a windows or delphi bug with the controls. I am also aware that the colorful interface uses up GDI resources, but not so much to cause such corruption. This could be related to ts7 with it's new interface. I use procedural rendering code for the gradient and some buttons. It's rather very quick without suckin up the resources with a bitmap for example. |
Post by stan // Sep 6, 2006, 9:58am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Steinie, I've run into that sort of issue in ts7.11 too..mind you it only happened once..I also get strange things happening to other plugins but not in a consistant way..
if anyone has any questions about the plugins use this thread ..wouldn't want to "scatter" the info all over the place..:D
they do some cool things..
like glue a light to a null object [from the scatter utilities]..then create an light array using one of the array tools..light manager will find them in a group..and you can adjust the settings to all of them at once if you desire..:)
in this thread you can find a link to a video tutorial Richard posted
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=15104#post15104 |
Post by stan // Sep 6, 2006, 11:23am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Frank started a thread about light arrays using scatter and light manager..look here ->
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=15111#post15111 |
Post by remnar // Sep 8, 2006, 4:16pm
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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Scatter has been updated to 0.0.2.3 fixing problems with the swappo utility in Particle Manager.
Also since I have changed the installation layout to a more organized fashion, you should uninstall previous versions, sorry for the inconvenience. The changed were made so you can have both 4.3 and 6.6 versions and be able to uninstall them separately.
I also want to know if you think the Gradient utility should be moved to the utility panel in it's own roll up panel group?
I will also start working on documentation. |
Post by frank // Sep 8, 2006, 6:30pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Remnar,
I just want to say THANKS a heap for bringing these two very useful tools to the trueSpace community.
I started today with generating blades of grass and such using some randomization parameters in the Scatter plugin and have gotten very nice results. I'm still experimenting with the various options, so I have yet to tap into the full potential of it.
Light Manager...wow, what a timesaver. The ability to pull in a list of lights from the scene (say for instance 100 Omni lights just generated by Scatter) and then group them is fantastic...and then apply settings to each one of those lights in one fell swoop... As with Scatter, Light Manager has a ton of features I've yet to try.
Great job and thanks again! |
Post by frank // Sep 9, 2006, 5:38pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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GRASS-BUILDING TIP: Use the Free CP (Cool Powers) plugin "Wiggledy" to sortof break up the uniformness of the ground object, then apply the blades of grass to it in Scatter with Geometry=Faces and Look At(Rotation)=Face Normals.
Works well. |
Post by stan // Sep 10, 2006, 3:59am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Frank, you can do that by tweaking the position in the "transformations" section of the "particle manager"
it's a bit finicky to use[there is a one level undo] but there you can tweak position, rotation amd size..it's better to just swap objects for size when it distorts the shape too much.. |
Post by frank // Sep 10, 2006, 6:28am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Yes, the particle manager is very cool - a plugin within itself.
I used it on some grass to get a "wind-blown" effect, making all plades lean to one axis by a random value. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 10, 2006, 4:31pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Well I am not playing with grass like Frank is (I'm waiting for his tutorial;) ), but I just completed 3 works using 7.11 and Scatter. All comments are welcome but please do not stray too much from the initial topic. |
Post by remnar // Sep 10, 2006, 5:28pm
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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I'm glad to see people using my plugin.
I have come across a scatter maya script which I am looking through it to figure some things out.
I am making a lot of changes to scatter. I have rewritten that translations code and I think it works better now. I also had to strip some animation features off the animation utility in particle manager since they didnt work. I moved the gradient tab to a roll up panel under utilities. I also added a Cut N Paste utility. I am now working on some interface bugs. I also made typing in values to the float type number spinners friendly (you can just type in the value instead of having to fight the . and it's jumping to precision). After this I will work on the documentation once I get all the features and bugs worked out.
I came across information on the scatter for 3dsmax. It's interesting to see that my features are similar to theirs. It's also funny that I never based this program on the max one, as I havn't seen it till recently. One thing though, the technology behind the scatter plugin in max blows my plugin out of the water. But it's because max has reference and instance for copying objects. Truespace doesn't support this. I am not sure how reference works. Instancing is a way to save on memory on copied objects. When you apply a change on object object, all instanced copied objects also get the change.
Scatter needs a way to scatter onto nurb surfaces. I found some code for this but it's based on UV (not texture mapping) so I dont know how it's going to translate into 3d space. If any one knows any technical papers on "scattering" please do share.
I plan on adding bounding collision, if it's possible. I know Encapsulate (face fit) option needs improvement as it tends to rotate incorrectly. This feature is rather advanced as I had to work with quaternions and matrix conversions (which I still dont really understand lol).
I just found some information that gave me an idea on a new type of scatter option. However it would only work on faces that have 4 vertices. The scatter method would scatter on the surface of the face based on the number of objects you input. The size would be adjusted to fit so they are all evently distributed. However this isn't easy to do if the length of one edge is different than the others. Also I thought I could do this on edges too (a lot easier). If you think you can use this in a artistic way, I'll work on it. You can actually do the face distribution by quad-dividing your object then selecting faces and encapsulate.
One more thing, the plugin needs a animation utility. So I need some ideas on this. |
Post by trueBlue // Sep 10, 2006, 6:24pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Dang Steinie! That looks really cool. I like the lizzard one the best. Me thinks you could create a really nice tutorial with these. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 11, 2006, 4:47am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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...and to think Remnar called it a "dumb plugin" .... :)
Trueblue, glad you liked them, I think the Lizard is cool too! (am I allowed to say that?) The southwestern theme used a real Eagle feather. I see Frank and Graysho are playing with grass creations, and Frank created some really cool light groups. I'm just getting started exploring it's functions so I'm not a good resource yet. Fun, Fun Fun!
Whats I like is the fact that Remnar still wants to improve them! I'm raising a glass of my best brew in gratitude! |
Post by stan // Sep 11, 2006, 5:39am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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here are a few tips for you guys..
to use "Pt. edit selections " before you select the "main" object do your point selections in edit mode [don't leave edit mode]..once done select "main"..now Pt. edit selections will be checked automaticly, otherwise it remains greyed out..it is found in "scatter types" geometry
see where I put the axis of my blade of grass..
when you press the "escape" key the abort panel opens..choose yes or no..if you choose "delete on abort" in the "main objects" section all particles will be deleted..if unchecked the particles will remain..I have "show particle creation" checked to make use of this feature ..
"scatter to new layer" is a way to delete all particles when you do not like what you've done.simply drag the layer to the recycling bin...it is also very useful to organize particles..like a head of hair..can't wait to see some one do some nice hair..hint, hint..
Gord :cool: |
Post by stan // Sep 11, 2006, 6:39am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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another little tip..
when choosing "face color" in your "scatter types" other section, you right click the face colour button and the colour picker cursor appears [doesn't show up on a screen grab]..that way you can pick face colours with ease
this work with constant reflectance shader..pick in the material editor..otherwise you must enter the rgb values by hand |
Post by GraySho // Sep 11, 2006, 11:03am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Very useful tips stan, couldn't render the whole terrain with grass blades on it (simply too many). |
Post by remnar // Sep 11, 2006, 11:53pm
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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If any any time you're not sure what a control does in the plugin, right click on the scatter plugin icon and it will open the about window containing tool tip options. Also you dont have to make full use of the scroll bar to access the panels. If you click on the white bar of the panel it will close, moving up the ones from the bottom. In case any one hasn't seen it yet, I have a video tutorial showing how to use light manager and scatter together. I don't sound very good in it, mostly cuz I'm not used to talking to myself. :p
http://remnar.home.comcast.net/software/lm43tut01.rar
I also made a video of some animated metaballs. I simply used the improved Transformations utility in Partical Manager and manually recorded keyframes. I will be making a tutorial of this for the documentation on the next version release.
http://remnar.home.comcast.net/software/scatter_anim_01.rar |
Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2006, 1:43am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Gord,
I tried painting a torus using the constant reflectance shader like your illustration and right clicked the face color button to get an eyedropper. The color values seem to be changing depending on where on the torus I click with the eyedropper.
I want to place Scatter only within that color range but it's not happening. Any ideas why the values are changing or why I cannot get Scatter to work in this instance?
Remnar,
Nice demo, I thought you were talking to ME and not yourself! :) I'd like to see some explanation on some other areas of Scatter if you have any. There seems to be alot of interest.
I have a question (and I'm not a programmer) is Scatter really an Array with more controls? Just curious.
Another question or observation, I noticed that you can change settings while Scatter is running. |
Post by stan // Sep 12, 2006, 3:23am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Steinie, try the eye dropper in the material editor window, [the main sphere] not on the object..sorry If I explained that poorly..:)
it only works with the colour shader..not images etc..when you pick on the object in the scene it changes value with the lighting..
when using other reflectance shaders you must enter the values by hand from the colour shader panel. |
Post by remnar // Sep 12, 2006, 3:40am
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remnar
Total Posts: 105
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The concept of scatter is to duplicate objects onto a surface of another object. There are many ways to do this and I have provided all ways I know how to do. There are others ways such as nurb or surface area, which I am investigating.
As to why you can make changes during a scatter process, it is necessary for a user to hit the Esc button to stop it. The way it works it reads any windows messages and processes them before continuing, per loop. I know this allows for more user error.
As to the color picker, it picks a color off the screen, not off the actual face material.
I have been trying to duplicate fur using a 3dsmax scatter tutorial and have come pretty close. The most difficult part is getting the shader right so it has a soft tip. The uniformity of the colors were possible by setting the longitude and lattitude of the sphere. Using smooth divide on a sphere will just scramble the order of vertices. The render time was long. It's even worse when the hair particles are in a group.
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_details.aspx?id_product=3958
The 2nd image I had to edit in PSP7 with copied and rotated layers. |
Post by Steinie // Sep 12, 2006, 6:15am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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"As to why you can make changes during a scatter process, it is necessary for a user to hit the Esc button to stop it. The way it works it reads any windows messages and processes them before continuing, per loop. I know this allows for more user error."
Actually for me this is a good thing! I would prefere a method of changing settings per loop. Using Gord's tip of stopping the process without removing Scatter objects, change settings and being able to continue is a great feature! You now have a way to weave.
Hopefully you will get feedback about your "Animation wishlist" request.
Gord, thanks for your help. P.S No more glass renderings? I miss them.:) |
Post by stan // Sep 12, 2006, 6:42am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Steinie, there are many cool features in Scatter..:D
you can work with a glued group as a particle..change colours even in groups in the particle manager..
yes I will be get back into some new glass renders this fall :) |
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