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very depressed by a lack of hair
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
very depressed by a lack of hair // Rants and Raves
Post by Burnart // Jun 12, 2006, 2:30pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Having just read Roman's blog I am feeling very depressed and p*ssed off!. Yes fur is coming but only if you have VRay it seems. Come on guys how expensive does tS have to get? If you make VRay indispensable to the program then tS becomes a modelling/anim tool for VRAy - is that the plan to be someone elses plugin? I'll say again what I've said in other threads and groups on other occasions - one of the main reasons I chose tS above other apps when I went looking for a 3d program was because I thought I'd be able to afford the updates. The need to buy VRay to access all the programs options means thats no longer true.
I should add another qualifier to depressed and p*issed - I'm extremely disappointed. (Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?) |
Post by Steinie // Jun 12, 2006, 3:27pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Just to set the record straight and you don't go jumping out of any windows. Where did Roman say the Fur and Hair shader was for Vray? I know that others had implied it but he never said it. He mentions VRAy in the next sentence so I could see how it could have been inferred. |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 12, 2006, 9:39pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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I don't know which render engine(s) hair and fur will be introduced with, but Roman certainly does not say it will be only be VRay in his blog. |
Post by splinters // Jun 12, 2006, 11:21pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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There is always the alpha hair.tsx to play with while you wait. I believe it was used in one of the images from last month's gallery-looked good-and it's free! |
Post by xmanflash // Jun 13, 2006, 6:16am
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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There is always the alpha hair.tsx to play with while you wait. I believe it was used in one of the images from last month's gallery-looked good-and it's free!
http://www.customgraphicwork.com/AlphaHair/ |
Post by rj0 // Jun 13, 2006, 8:34am
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rj0
Total Posts: 167
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(Or have I got the wrong end of the stick?)
It might be worth digging around to see if any 3D program using the LightWorks renderer has a hair or fur option, as I suspect a lot of that capability is up to what LightWorks provides.
rj |
Post by Burnart // Jun 13, 2006, 1:47pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I've tried alpha hair - it has its uses but it is very limited compared to what has been available in Poser (for example) for a number of years now. People are right, it doesn't specifically say the hair/fur will be VRay only, hence my qualifier at the end, but Romans statements about rendering do seem to be about VRay so much of my rant is still valid. What It comes down to is I feel like we are going to be expected to buy VRay to benefit from new render techniques and the onboard rendering won't improve. tS7 doesn't seem to incorporate all the latest possibilities available in Lighworks (look them up on web) in fact I'm not sure that the ts7 version is any different from the tS6.6 version. tS is getting to be a very expensive program at a time when the big boys prices are coming down. All seems counter intuitive and couter productive to me. |
Post by TomG // Jun 26, 2006, 5:08am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hi all,
The tS7 version of Ligthworks was the latest at the time of tS7 being launched. It is different from tS6.6 - for example, HDRI. This is a Lightworks item, in that we can't add it in since it is a render engine item :) We can add the interface to it once it is in the render engine of course, which is what was done. Anyway, the appearance of HDRI in native tS7 rendering is due to its appearance in Lightworks.
Not sure what features are claimed to be "missing" in tS7. Some things havent made it into Lightworks yet (caustics for instance), some things are available only at extra cost and not native in the Lightworks renderer (so you would end up paying more for tS7 - eg the sketch rendering capabilities in Lightworks). As far as I am aware, if there is any functionality in the Lightworks engine, it was exposed and used in tS7.
There was just a release of Lightworks the other week with something about "final gather" - havent followed up on that to see what it is etc, but that isn't in tS7, since it has only just come out :) Not sure if there is reference on the website to that or not.
As for what features turn up under which render engine, that mainly depends on what is available in each render engine. We certainly won't hold back from developing something for V-Ray just because it isn't possible under the native engine - but neither does this mean that you are being "expected" to purchase V-Ray to get some features. It simply means that we are going to make the most of each render engine we have, be that Lightworks or V-Ray. Sure, V-Ray can (and already does) do things that Lightworks doesn't, but that's true of all different render engines out there - it's why there are different render engines out there! If Maxwell and Mental Ray and V-Ray and Lightworks an Virtualight all did the same thing, then there wouldn't be that many renderers :)
So there will be no "expectation" to buy V-Ray, but V-Ray will continue to offer different features that you cannot get with the other rendering options, and if you want those, then V-Ray will be a valuable purchase.
Note that this does NOT mean I am discussing hair and fur. This is not a statement that those will only be out in V-Ray by any means :) I did want to make it clear though that V-Ray will of course offer things like Lightworks does not, and that this is not due to some deliberate choice on Caligari's part to limit what is given in one engine in order to "force" you to buy another. Quite the other way round, people want those features, and for that reason we have taken the time and effort to make it possible for tS7 to use more than one render engine (unlike previous incarnations of tS) so that people CAN access the features they want, which simply wasn't always possible before when tied to just one engine.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Jun 26, 2006, 5:34am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Final Gathering sounds like Lightworks' version of the mythical 'awesome render' button;
http://www.lightworkdesign.com/products/latestrelease.htm
By the way, any chance we will see LW 7.6 in TS7.5?
And any update on it being LWA enabled to support the new (free?) shaders?
Cheers for update anyways Tom...:D |
Post by Alien // Jun 26, 2006, 6:13am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Some things havent made it into Lightworks yet (caustics for instance), some things are available only at extra cost and not native in the Lightworks renderer (so you would end up paying more for tS7 - eg the sketch rendering capabilities in Lightworks).
What about some sort of Lightworks+ option, that would be available as an extra purchase, like V-ray is? Of course, I'd want to know what all the extra features would be, & a rough idea of extra cost before I could make a decision on whether I'd want it [which is probably what most people would say :)], but I do think it's a topic worthy of further discussion.
1 thing that does interest me is the realtime OGL 2.0 function I saw mentioned.
And any update on it being LWA enabled to support the new (free?) shaders?
Glad you brought that up, I'm interested to hear any news on that too. |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 26, 2006, 9:03am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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What about some sort of Lightworks+ option, that would be available as an extra purchase, like V-ray is? Of course, I'd want to know what all the extra features would be, & a rough idea of extra cost before I could make a decision on whether I'd want it [which is probably what most people would say :)], but I do think it's a topic worthy of further discussion.
What, you mean like VirtuaLight being included with tS7.x giving you caustics and GI at no extra cost? |
Post by Alien // Jun 26, 2006, 9:49am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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What, you mean like VirtuaLight being included with tS7.x giving you caustics and GI at no extra cost?
I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Do you mean:
1. Why do I want extra Lightworks stuff when I already have VL?
or...
2. Am I asking for extra Lightworks stuff to be built in at no extra cost?
As I'm not sure which you mean, I'll answer both.
1. AFAIK, VL doesn't get any boost from a system with more than 1 CPU core. Whilst I don't currently have a multi-CPU/core system, I plan on rectifying that as soon as I have the money. :) Also, I don't recall hearing anything about VL having a realtime OGL feature.
2. No, I was suggesting that Caligari consider making the extra Lightworks features available as an extra purchase, which when installed would update/upgrade/whatever the existing Lightworks stuff in tS. |
Post by splinters // Jun 26, 2006, 10:23am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I am curious too; do we always get an 'older' or limited version of LW with each release? I am not complaining as I realise development starts with one version and newer features cannot always be integrated by release but just how many limitations are there on the LW engine?
For instance, the sketch render option-is it a paid for 'add-on' or just omitted from TS7 by choice-like LWA capability?
If a LW license gives you access to the technology, does that mean we could expect LW7.6 in TS7.5?
Again, just curious.:) |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 26, 2006, 10:37am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Sketch render is an additional cost module to LightWorks. The 'LWA Enabled' part also appears in an additional module (actually, it's included in more than one of the available additional modules). Caligari are good at getting the current version of LightWorks in their releases, but LightWork Design don't always release their updates in synch with Caligari, of course.
LightWorks is a series of modules - there is a core that needs to be present, then additional modules available to add on. Caligari don't release a limited version of LightWorks, they just don't use all of the available modules. |
Post by Burnart // Jun 26, 2006, 2:17pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Thanks Thomas and others for making this a more interesting thread than just a rant - sorry for not getting back sooner I'm just not someone who looks at the forums every day. Caustics was something I was thinking about butnot all.
If I place an image on a plane with an alpha cutout and render that with an atmospheric fog or something then the atmosphere is not applied to the negaive in the cutout. In other words you can see the shape of the plane. If I you look at architectural renders on the Lightworks website they seem to do this kind of thing successfully all the time - with treess and people for example mapped onto planes and scattered around the building. I understand that the atmosphere effects may not have anything to do with Lighworks but be an addon from Caligari but given this has been a problem since at least tS3.2 its about time it was resolved. (Or is it something I can only do with V-Ray.?!) |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 26, 2006, 9:01pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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It's a long time problem that transparency maps show up when using volumetrics and fog under LightWorks. From the number of times it has been reported over the years I've gathered it is a problem with LightWorks. |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Jul 3, 2006, 10:26am
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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I believe the fog is a post processing effect based on depth to the first intersection in a scene along a ray. To incorporate transparency would require some sort of semi-volumetric solution because the depth of subsequent rays would also have to be taken into account.
Incidentally, the same depth information might help to create a hair shader. I was able to create a crude hair shader using a kludged up method that only applies to curved surfaces... spheres being the best type.
Here's the archive thread.
http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/1585/18578.html?1115039972 |
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