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Dual vs Quad core XP vs Vista
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Dual vs Quad core XP vs Vista // Hardware
Post by lymzilla // Dec 31, 2007, 8:32am
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lymzilla
Total Posts: 4
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:D
Both my son and I built new machines for Christmas:
Vista 64 Ultimate
AMD Athlon 64 dual-core 5400+ (2.8Mhz)
4 GB 800Mhz RAM
nVidia 8800 GTS superclocked (320MB RAM)
500GB main drive
ViewSonic 22" widescreen LCD monitors (2ms)
w/r to Vista 64...
Install goes BSOD if > 3MB during install. We went with 2MB and install went OK. There is now a MS patch out to support > 3MB 'AFTER' install. So we applied the patch and now our 4MB is recognized with no problems.
My son has hundreds of PC games (literally) and has only had problems installing 2 of them under Vista 64. With nVidia's latest drivers installed - we haven't had any problem installing apps.
trueSpace 7.51 is the only app I've had problems with, but only minor ones. Found that if I put 'Bloom' on then the latest nVidia drivers work fine with 7.51. Also, if Bloom off - I can get by with just changing Ground settings from 'solid' to 'wire'. But I like working in Bloom better (when I can). I also altered the trueSpace 'default' configuration so I always come up with Bloom on.
truePlay (trueSpace) is not as easy to fool. I found it hard to get the 'Post Processing' dialog to display (so I could set Bloom). Moving the window and then clicking for 'Post Processing' in toolbar shows dialog, I set Bloom, then everything is fine after that. Too bad I can't get truePlay to default to Bloom. That would make things easier.
So I do believe that 'most' of the reasons for not going to Vista 64 have become 'moot' for us (my son and I).
:D |
Post by Improv // Dec 31, 2007, 8:41am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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From my very unofficial observations :D I would say Vista 32bit is slower. The thing that bugs me is the memory requirement. It takes in the area of 1.2-1.4 gigs just to sit there idle... hehehe
Rich
To paraphrase an old joke: "When Vista sits around the house, it REALLY sits around the house! "
:) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Dec 31, 2007, 3:26pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Only problem I'm currently seeing with 64-bit is that specialized (audio) hardware vendors have been very slow to produce drivers. There are companies with great 64-bit support out there now, so you can definitely put together very nice 64-bit systems now if you are careful in picking out your hardware.
For me I've switch completely over to Vista x64 now and I'm very happy with it.
I'm not sure the current nVidia driver line (169.x) is that compatible with TS, so you may want to try the 163.75 driver which was very stable for me and worked well with 3D games and TS 7.51. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Dec 31, 2007, 3:35pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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@Improv,
BTW, you were right about the Realtek HDAudio hardware, it could do 192Khz playback just fine but the recording latency was crap. I eventually ended up getting an Echo Mia, it's only 96KHz, but has native WaveRT drivers for Vista x64 and I'm recording with a 2.7ms latency. Pretty hard to beat that. :D
I'm thinking about switching from Mackie Traktion to Sonar since Sonar has good 64-bit support as well...
-Jack. |
Post by Shike // Jan 1, 2008, 12:04pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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@hemulin:
Read in a couple of forums that other XP32/Vista64 users had the same problem, so it might not be possible in that combo... and if it is impossible, trying to modify the vista boot might be dangerous... (yes, I'm a chicken :p)
Hm, Has anyone here successfully done the XP32/Vista64 dual boot stuff?
@Jack:
You're probably right about the drivers... but I reeeeally need the latest for the games... so for now I'll use trueSpace in XP.
Vista is nice but has it's annoying quirks:
Havn't even been able to figure out how to tell Vista to "PLEASE....show me the hidden files...I promise I wont delete them!!!" ;) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 1, 2008, 12:41pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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@Shrike,
I too couldn't find the "show file extensions" and "show hidden files" options at first, but if you type it in the help search it shows you how to do it.
I set up a dual boot system with Vistabootpro:
http://www.vistabootpro.org/
It works fine, but I find that I don't bother with XP anymore. ;) |
Post by hemulin // Jan 1, 2008, 12:43pm
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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@hemulin:
Read in a couple of forums that other XP32/Vista64 users had the same problem, so it might not be possible in that combo... and if it is impossible, trying to modify the vista boot might be dangerous... (yes, I'm a chicken :p)
Yeah, I haven't had the chance (or the want really) to play around with Vista so I don't know how it is different to XP in that respect, however I suspect the boot principles are the same. Knowing how Vista is I probably wouldn't try the modification unless both installations (XP and Vista) were fresh and had no work on them. :rolleyes: |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 1, 2008, 2:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The process I used was:
1.) Install WinXP x64 on 1st partition. (64bit os needed to run the Vista x64 installer. Stupid, but that's the way it is.)
2.) Install Vista x64 on 2nd partition.
3.) Install WinXP 32bit over XP64.
4.) use VistabootPro to setup dual boot menu.
I had no problems and it went straight forward. If you don't have a copy of xp64, you will need to buy the Retail version of Vista x64 because the download version from Microsoft doesn't come with a bootable x64 disk.
If you don't want to mess with your existing setup. A simple way to add Vista x64 would be to buy a new harddrive and to install Vista onto that harddrive, but leave your XP install the way it is. Then use Vistabootpro to set up your boot menu. |
Post by Shike // Jan 1, 2008, 2:50pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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The process I used was:......
That sounds like what Hemulin suggested...starting with clean installs of everything, which I guess is the best situation since nothing gets lost in the process...and since even the slightest chance that I will have to redo either the XP or Vista installation is...well..not fun ;)
Hm..I'm assuming that process with XP64 then Vista64 was needed if you use a Vista upgrade disk?
With mine (retail) I couldn't start the Vista installation from my 32bit XP but could boot from the DVD and install on my new clean disk.
BTW Thanks for the tip about using the Vista Help.... for some stupid reason when I couldn't find it in the "explorer" menu I just assumed they removed it completely...:o |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 1, 2008, 4:03pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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As long as you have a retail disk you should be fine, since you can boot and install from the disk.
I was stupid and bought the online download version (upgrade I think..) via Bitlocker the day it came out and Circuit City never sent me my disk. :mad: As you've also noticed the setup won't run from a 32bit OS. It wouldn't run from a WinPE 2.0 disk either for me, so xp64 was the only way I could get it to install.
You're certainly welcome about Windows Help thing that was one that was driving me crazy for a few days as well. :rolleyes: |
Post by Improv // Jan 1, 2008, 10:25pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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@Improv,
BTW, you were right about the Realtek HDAudio hardware, it could do 192Khz playback just fine but the recording latency was crap. I eventually ended up getting an Echo Mia, it's only 96KHz, but has native WaveRT drivers for Vista x64 and I'm recording with a 2.7ms latency. Pretty hard to beat that. :D
I'm thinking about switching from Mackie Traktion to Sonar since Sonar has good 64-bit support as well...
-Jack.
Interesting. I'm thinking of switching audio cards right now too. I have a Midiman 2496 card, and it took them until mid December to release a 32 bit driver for the card-nearly a year after Vista was released. Plus I am sure that devs had Vista before that so that they could write drivers. Meanwhile while I was waiting, I went back to XP-hey, everything works.
Now that the drivers are out for the 2496 card for 32 bit Vista, there is STILL no sign of drivers for Vista 64 bit. <Sigh!>
If Midiman is trying to lose me as aloyal customer, they are doing a great job of it! I may yet join you in the Echo camp! :-) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 2, 2008, 12:20am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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From what I hear the Edirol/Roland interfaces have decent 64bit drivers. So that could be another option.
The Echo MiaMidi is pretty bare bones and it's old technology. It's probably because they've worked with that chip for over a decade that they were able to put out solid Vista drivers for it. The 8 channel virtual mixer is interesting and useful as is the +4dBu and -10dBV switching on the analog inputs.
I debated a bit between the Edirol and E-mu ones as well, but I figured that reliable drivers that actually worked probably trumps features that I don't necessarily need. ;) So far it's working great and the sound quality seems good to me. Snagging it for $100 didn't hurt any either...
Let me know if you get an Edirol though, since I'm curious to see how they perform. Line6 doesn't look like they are going to be coming out with a 64bit driver any year soon, so I may want to get a different guitar port... :(
Edit:
Forgot to mention that it works side-by-side with my on-board Realtek chip, so I didn't have to sacrifice 3d audio performance in games either. I just left the realtek to handle default windows sound output and then set the output from that to use one set of virtual inputs on the Mia Midi mixer and it outputs through my studio monitors just fine. :) |
Post by Improv // Jan 2, 2008, 8:33am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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From what I hear the Edirol/Roland interfaces have decent 64bit drivers. So that could be another option.
Getting psychic on me there, Jack? lol!!!
It so happens that I was looking at the Edirols and was considering them. They do look promising...
Cheers |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 2, 2008, 6:01pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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great minds just think alike... :D
It looks like the 64bit Vista market has finally matured to a professionally usable level both for hardware and now software (particularly Sonar), and I think we should reward the companies that have put in the work to make that migration. It's a bit different names than we would have expected, but sometimes shake-ups in the industry are what's needed.
I was a bit worried there for a little while but looks like Caligari is going to be one of those companies embracing 64-bit and multi-core soon as well:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=56569&postcount=38
:) |
Post by Improv // Jan 2, 2008, 8:40pm
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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great minds just think alike... :D
Or maybe it's 'fools seldom differ'? :banana:
It looks like the 64bit Vista market has finally matured to a professionally usable level both for hardware and now software (particularly Sonar), and I think we should reward the companies that have put in the work to make that migration. It's a bit different names than we would have expected, but sometimes shake-ups in the industry are what's needed.
This is where I thought the Vista 64 should have been a year ago. Mature drivers, 64 bit software versions,etc. That's why I've been holding back with xp and letting others experiment. I've done enough of that in my 20 or so years of computing! :rolleyes:
The 64 bit drivers are coming out slowly but surely, now I need my main apps like TS, Corel Painter X, Cubase/Tracktion/etc, to get 64 bit software and I'll go out and get Vista 64 in a second.
Cheers.
Improv |
Post by MikeNTX // Apr 25, 2008, 8:11am
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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I know it has been a while since there were posts to this thread but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in. I use tS 7.51 with Vray and recently built a new PC with a Q6600 quad on an ASUS P5K motherboard and running under XP x64. The CPU normally runs at 2.4Ghz but will automatically overclock to 3.0Ghz under load. My former PC was used an Athlon XP 2500+ CPU running under Win2K, yes tS 7.51 ran fine under Win2K. I do not have any timing tests but I can say it is blindingly fast compared to my old PC. Scenes that used to take a few minutes to render now can be done in under a minute. I am now going back to old projects that used to take so long to render that it was a pain if I wanted to make a minor change then see how that change came out. With the low cost of the Q6600 CPU’s these days I really recommend getting a PC that has one in it. |
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