Cutting holes and all that?

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Cutting holes and all that? // TS6 and Older

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Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 8:38am

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
As I try to make models that are usable over a wide range of modeling apps I would like to know how to cut a hole right.


The video posted by RayMan (http://www.luxology.com/training/vid...?id=207&auto=1) is very good but I don't see how to do this in TS (let alone 3.2). Any time you delete a face in TS, TS simply turns the area into a n-gon.


How can I cut a whole that when I go to triangulate isn't going to mess up my models? (Or is this like web developement? If you want to be "safe" you can't make to much more than cubes :D )


Thanks

Mike

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 9:18am

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Total Posts: 609
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Can't remember if 3.2 has boolean subtraction, if so use that, or form face tool might work.

Maybe even get tS 7.6 as it is free, unless you are concerned with hard disk space.

Using the link below you can put anything you want after username= and get in to download area.
http://cart1.caligari.com/web/TrueSpaceReg_result.aspx?username=:banana: (http://cart1.caligari.com/web/TrueSpaceReg_result.aspx?username=:banana)

Also the video tutorial involving vue (http://caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/trueSpaceVue.asp?Cate=Training&Subcate=Fundamental) covers this, it too is free.

(lol just realized that my first part is useless for exporting)

Post by RAYMAN // Sep 15, 2008, 9:27am

RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Not sure what the problem is !

Apart from sliding on surface you can do the same modeling in Ts

that you do in Modo !

I dont get any bad geometry nor do I havea bad render and holes that I make in truespace stay there in aoll apps that I imort it into !

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 9:31am

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Total Posts: 609
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Connect the hole edges to the corners of the plane, that should solve the problem.

Then sweep it, and it should export with a neat hole in the middle. Same goes for an object with a hole, triangulate by hand.

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 10:52am

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
It must be 3.2 then.

If I delete any faces on a surface then it simply makes that area a n-gon.

(see my pictures)

I subdivide a cube and then select a face and delete.

Instead of creating a hole it just makes it a n-gon (which a cube I migh not be that surprised).

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 10:57am

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
And with a plane the same thing happens.




-with boolean subtract-

Now I use the boolean subtract to cut a circle then triangulate.

This type of triangulate in some apps shows up (as TomG mentions in another post) as each face catching the light different. I have done a hand-triangulation and while it reduces it, it is not as neat a job as if you could do it like the video.



I just assumed that there must be a more "correct" way of doing it...

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 11:25am

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Total Posts: 609
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That's because you end up deleting the vertices and not the actual face. There should be a delete face tool in the same column, unless that's a newer addition.

Use the icon helper and try and find delete face tool which is that red question mark.

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 11:33am

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
:o I am so embarrassed :o


I never even realised that tool was there. :o


That is exactly what I was wanting.

Ack :o


Thanks

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 11:34am

robert
Total Posts: 609
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Don't worry about it:D, from a logical perspective they seem like they would do the same thing, I messed that up before too.;)

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 11:57am

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
Well since I now look silly I might as well continue :D

I find it leaves vertices though the face is gone. So they are just floating.

I always thought that a faces (or at least a edge) and a vertice were inseparable, if you delete on you will delete the other (unless they are part of another face).

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 12:01pm

robert
Total Posts: 609
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Not necessarily, however if you take the cube or plane you used above and select four faces in a 2x2 square the middle vertex will be deleted, otherwise the vertices and edges are there to define the hole just like they exist on the edges of the plane.

A vertex connected to nothing can exist, a face/edge cannot exist without vertices, however, as the vertices define end and beginning points. Just like in graphs a point can exist without line segments but not the other way around.

So long as the vertex lies on the surface I should add, although you might be able to have floating points, I'm not sure

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 1:01pm

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
ok, just one more question :D


I have noticed this working with other objects in ts and get it again when I delete a face so I figured I'd ask (since I can't find anything about it in the help file).


After deleting a face, if I try a boolean anything it says the object is not a solid object. Is there a way to turn it back into a solid object? I think I have seen this also with the metaballs.


Thanks

Mike

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 1:03pm

robert
Total Posts: 609
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Well you'd have to replace the face, boolean, then delete the face again. I can think of no other way around this.:(

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 1:07pm

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
ok, so basically you have to choose between using the booleans or deleting faces.


Thank you for all the help.

Mike

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 1:10pm

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Total Posts: 609
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ok, so basically you have to choose between using the booleans or deleting faces...


Not necessarily, once you perform boolean you can re-delete the face.;)


...Thank you for all the help...


No problem:)

Post by transient // Sep 15, 2008, 1:37pm

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Why are you using 3.2 when 7.6 is now free? What you are doing is extremely easy in workspace.:confused:

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 1:56pm

robert
Total Posts: 609
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Why are you using 3.2 when 7.6 is now free? What you are doing is extremely easy in workspace.:confused:


Maybe he has a not so good video card, or is limited for storage. I really don't know why, maybe it's just force of habit.

Post by MikeJoel // Sep 15, 2008, 2:28pm

MikeJoel
Total Posts: 266
nope. I think my hardware (while not the best) would run it.

It is the fact that I am running win98. I know, I know, but there you have it.


One day I may be able to upgrade it, but till then....


Thanks

Mike

Post by robert // Sep 15, 2008, 3:09pm

robert
Total Posts: 609
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...It is the fact that I am running win98. I know, I know, but there you have it...


"Very nice" quote Eddie Izzard from tea and cake or death the lego version at about 48 secs. in:p


That would do it.

Post by TomG // Sep 17, 2008, 12:51pm

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
tS3.2 did indeed insist on objects being solid before it could do anything with them. Deleting a face in that way could cause you problems, in fact, as you could end up with invalid geometry that would prevent point editing tools from working, or even cause trouble with rendering.


You would be better making the cube a shell so it has some thickness, then booleaning out the area in place of using Delete Face to make a hole - that way you have a hole through something with thickness, so it remains valid solid geometry.


tS7.6 is not nearly so picky about things being solid :)


HTH!

Tom
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