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November MMC-(Fantastic title no 15)
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
November MMC-(Fantastic title no 15) // Work in Progress
Post by Weevil // Nov 6, 2008, 1:24pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Time I jumped into the mix, nothing yet, but uh...you like my title? |
Post by Nez // Nov 6, 2008, 10:56pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well, you do like to keep us intrigued... :rolleyes: I'm sure it'll be interesting when it turns up! |
Post by Weevil // Nov 8, 2008, 7:25am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Now I think I have an idea I'd like to try, I'm not sure if I can get away with it in Truespace, but I'm thinking along the lines of an optical illusion. |
Post by Steinie // Nov 8, 2008, 11:33am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Cool idea, I hope it works. |
Post by Weevil // Nov 9, 2008, 4:56am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Uhm...it does not...so plan B then. Technology!
Screenies. Points to those who can guess what it's going to be
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/screenie1.jpg
Progress futher on
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/screenie2.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/screenie3.jpg |
Post by Breech Block // Nov 9, 2008, 6:08am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Wow! Love the detailing Weevil. No idea what its going to be but it doesn't half remind me of the armature for a dentist's drill (shudder). |
Post by tahnoak // Nov 9, 2008, 6:45am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Now that is hysterical because that is what I thought as well. Looking forward to seeing more, great job Weevil. |
Post by Steinie // Nov 9, 2008, 6:55am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Well I thought it was a robotic toothpick...what do I know...:D |
Post by Nez // Nov 9, 2008, 11:19pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Well my guess is a War of the Worlds type walker-machine thingy, but guess I'll have to wait a bit longer to see.... |
Post by Weevil // Nov 10, 2008, 7:45am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Got it one nez. It's one of the many designs from War of the worlds, so, remixing time, by no means finished but it's getting there
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/screenie4.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i192/Weasle_01/screenie5.jpg |
Post by robert // Nov 10, 2008, 9:54am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Looks pretty cool thus far, even functional. :p |
Post by Weevil // Nov 10, 2008, 11:19am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Thanks
But guys. What gives?! This is the second important scene I've now lost to these mystery crashes, a re-install hasn't helped, I can't open this scene file, Truespace crashes before it even loads. I had a "fatal render error" and a whole string of "illegal operations" once it's been shut down, but nothing that hasn't happened before. It does this without warning
Please help someone! |
Post by rjeff // Nov 10, 2008, 11:27am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Oh this is a simple fix man. First it has to be a full moon, then you must stand on one foot and then hold your mouth open and to the left..and that should do it. |
Post by nigec // Nov 10, 2008, 12:26pm
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nigec
Total Posts: 314
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i've problems like this, if i've used odd ball fonts, i have to run scanline render otherwise i get the render warning, i only use wire frame and turned the directX options off
it also happens using some shaders.. ie toon ones.. can't use em at all in Vista, only XP
if you want i'll see if i can open it, i use 6.6 |
Post by robert // Nov 10, 2008, 12:30pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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Load up the scene, if you don't mind, and let us take a crack at it. Not entirely sure what could be wrong although this has happened to me before. I'll try and remember what I did. |
Post by TomG // Nov 10, 2008, 12:45pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Not sure of the cause. Some ideas though - when saving, always save to 2 different file names, eg SaveA, SaveB, and alternate. That way, when a crash happens, you always have the previous saved version and only a small amount of work is lost.
You could just save to sequential files and tidy up at the end. I do the first for small changes, and the second when I know I am going to be working on the scene for a while (and btw I don't do it for crashes, I am using the workspace don't get any lost work on save there that I've run into - all the same, I back up my work like this in case I make a destructive edit that I decide I don't like and I need to revert to an earlier version).
Ensure the bridge is off if you are working Model side only. You might however try enabling the bridge, and saving on the workspace side.
BTW are you saving to HD, or saving to a library? You might want to try the other approach, whichever one you are using, see if that works better. Using the libraries makes it easy to just Insert a new copy at any point, without tedious file save dialogs etc, making it swift and easy.
You may also try the auto save plugin that saves every 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes etc (user customizable time). It's Model side only, but that appears to be where the crashes are so maybe that will help.
Sending in info to tech support may help diagnose what is going wrong - the actual errors that you see, maybe even the scene file (before and after, if you are keeping multiple versions, so a "good" and "bad" version can be compared). Tech support can of course guarantee the privacy of the scene so its not like posting on a forum and giving away the model, it remains your property and quite safe, but lets us inspect it for possible causes.
Sorry you are having this trouble :( Hopefully it can be resolved, and meantime these safeguard steps might save any lost work.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Weevil // Nov 10, 2008, 12:49pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Yeah, I will PM it to one person only though.
However Nigec, the issue is that the scene does not even load before it crashes, I haven't set any materials or anything...It's just odd..
Edit...WHups...got int there before me tom...quick typing!. |
Post by Weevil // Nov 10, 2008, 1:10pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Now, after I've read through it
Okay, I'll put it in my signature for future reference that I'm using truespace 6.6, , so the issues that crop up with 7.6 don't apply to me
This file has only been around for a day, I cannot access it through truespace, before the scene even loads, truespace crashes, the type of crash that asks me to send error reports to microsoft.
I don't have the autosave plugin, god knows I've tried to find it though, and I am only saving the scene. The fact that I haven't made backups or multiple saves is that it wouldn't affect anything...so i think both files will crash, and also the fac that I shouldn't really need to back up a day old file...this seems to be a very odd ball problem
I am also only saving the scene, not in hd, or any libraries, or anything like that
HTH! |
Post by robert // Nov 10, 2008, 1:13pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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HD is Hard Drive or Hard Disk btw (I think :p). Anyway back to the thing at hand, try using this unlocker tool (http://ccollomb.free.fr/unlocker/), don't know if it will help, but it might. |
Post by Weevil // Nov 10, 2008, 1:16pm
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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naww...wouldn't touch that with a barge pole mate...sorry...the file can be read...it just crashes inside truespace before the scene is loaded |
Post by robert // Nov 10, 2008, 1:21pm
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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No problem, I thought restarting tS would do it. Um... Uh... Yeah I got nothing. Probably just send it in to tech support, that'll be your best bet I'm sure. Sorry I couldn't help much.:o |
Post by Breech Block // Nov 10, 2008, 1:31pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Sorry to hear you are having trouble Weevil as that was\is a fantastic model. Hope you get it sorted and get back on track soon. |
Post by TomG // Nov 10, 2008, 2:03pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Ah, 6.6. I would recommend using tS7.6, but simply using the Model side, in that case (there is more stability in 7.6 Model side than 6.6 standalone).
If it is corrupting on save (is that when it crashes btw, or everything seems normal until you restart tS and the crashes only occur on load?) in which case 2 files will mean one will be uncorrupted, so the two or multiple file approach should mean you can revert to earlier work rather than losing everything.
Sequential saving should also help there if you are doing a lot of modeling - for instance, it could be bad geometry, so that tS is really getting confused on reloading the scene, and hence the crash. If that is the case, with sequential saves you can just backtrack until you hit a point that loads, before the bad geometry was introduced. This would also help identify just what bad geometry was sneaking in there to cause the problem, and makes for a good diagnostic tool, finding the "last stable version" of the scene.
It could be HD problems, and the file is being corrupted and so not making sense and causing a crash, but this I seriously doubt.
So I go for bad geometry, or corrupting on save, and multiple saves, while not wonderfully convenient, could diagnose that as well as give you a way of avoiding all the work.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Nez // Nov 10, 2008, 11:11pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Just as a minor query - do your settings produce a .bak file for each scene (check your scnes folder if you don't know) as you might be able to recover from the previous saved version if you have one...
I don't actually know th eprocess - I'm assuming you manually change the file extension back to .scn but have never tried it... I know my copy of tS5 does this all the time and I periodically clear them out for old scenes.
I thought the autosave feature didn't use to be a plug-in but a built in feature under the preferences somewhere? Will have to check and see if I can find it on my versions here which would give a clue as where to look for it... perhaps there was a more sophisticated plug-in too...
Hope you get it sorted Weevil as this was looking promising (and I'm smug for guessing what it was!) |
Post by Weevil // Nov 11, 2008, 12:05am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Unfortunately Nez, the .bak was the first thing I tried to do, ableit I just loaded the .bak file as is and even more unfortunately, only the main body section loads, no legs, details or anything like that. I did try your idea of changing the file extension name, and that made TS crash as well
Now, to be hoenst, Truespace 7.6 is a bit of an oddball with me, I actually find it slower to load, and much less reliable than 6.6, something is just completely different about it, for me 6.6 is perfect minus the obvious tools everyone wants and that while it sometimes does throw something up, it never really has any major issues (though when it does want to crash, it does it with artistic flair)
I think I may have to agree with you Tom about the problems, though it may have something to do with the lighting, Truespace kept on saying "The system has run out of memory" everytime I tried to render the scene with the lights that the scene loaded with, but I didn't think anything of it because that had happened before and all I needed to do was restore the control panel oddly enough.
I'm not quite sure how to backtrack with that save though, considering there is only one, unless this is for future reference.
Thanks guys, I HOPE this can get sorted out, but to be honest I highly doubt it. |
Post by Nez // Nov 11, 2008, 1:25am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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It may not specifically help this time, but the autosaver plugin someone mentioned is listed on Emmanuel's excellent plug-in archive page here (http://emmanuel.asset.free.fr/tsxarchive/index.htm)
I've not tried it myself, but I doubt he'd list it if didn't work reasonably well.
I've had some similar 'fatal rendering' errors but they haven't caused (generally) TS to fail to open the scene again, usually just fails when trying to perform some kind of rendering again. I wasn't sure if it was a texturing or lighting problem (neither look a problem here?) - never really got to bottom of it, usually managed to rebuild scene using component objects (saved into library, then imported into clean, blank scene). I've had 'out of memory' type errors when using a lot of shaderlab textures.... again, seems unlikley to be a problem from what you've shown. |
Post by TomG // Nov 11, 2008, 1:50am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Can't say for sure, but that kind of out of memory when rendering might be geometry - that sounds kind of familiar to me, that bad geometry could cause that, as it causes things to get in a tangle at render time, just as trying to unpack it out of the saved scene would cause tS to fall over. Certainly something corrupted in the scene itself I think is the culprit by the sound of that, rather than just the saved file becoming corrupted or written out wrongly from tS etc.
The sequential files, saved as you go along, is the only thing I can think of to try as a next step. That way, if it happens again, you can retrace through the history of the scene and uncover the cause, be it some particular tool you used, some level of complexity being exceeded, some kind of texture being applied, etc. Of course it might not happen again, or it might be on the 9th scene you work on, so you could end up doing sequential saves for nothing for a while, but the upside is if it did catch the problem, then that would make all those extra saves worthwhile!
HTH,
Tom |
Post by Weevil // Nov 11, 2008, 3:33am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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My situation with autosavers are wierd ones, sometimes I just constantly work through everything, but most of the time I design and make things as I get there, and change my designs if I see an idea that might look cool, so I usually save it at big milestones, so that way if I want to reload the scene, I just do, but if it's autosaved I may have to track back
Of course there just those days where I really need one of them. Thanks for the find!
Now, onto the problem, I find it kinda funny that this has never happened before...then it happens twice in quick succession (but luckily last time I did have a rollback save ready and waiting so it didn't chuck me back too far), and the fact that Truespace somehow manages to give me the "we are sorry but truespace had to close, would you like to send an error report?" message after Truespace has been shut down every time suggests that it's truespace itself, I may have to bite the bullet and re-install again, but I'll need to relink all my textures, shaders, plugins and the works...should be a fun afternoon.. |
Post by Finis // Nov 11, 2008, 5:34am
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Just a wild thing to try but do you have an older version of TS? TS 5 maybe? Try to load the scene into all the versions of TS you have. If one of them can handle it and then save it maybe that will repair the scene or produce a more informative error message.
Are you running Vista? Try it with XP or whatever you can. |
Post by nigec // Nov 11, 2008, 6:06am
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nigec
Total Posts: 314
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Have you tried running windows in safe mode and opening the scene?
TS will work (i tried before i posted) the only thing is it'll run 640x480 screen res and no directx options |
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