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Last Train
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Last Train // Work in Progress
Post by tahnoak // Oct 22, 2008, 11:07am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Working on another scene. It needs a lot of detailed work but that will have to wait until I get better at it and my kids get better (sick). Ultimately, I want a businessman standing there staring at the closed sign, realizing he missed the last train home.
I am pretty proud of my benches though. They were my first "real" modeling job other than windows, buckets, etc... :)
Thoughts and suggestions always welcome. |
Post by Breech Block // Oct 22, 2008, 11:39am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Wow, this looks great already. I like the idea of the man missing his train. Only suggestion I have is to give it that really closed for the night look you may want to place quite a bit of litter on the floor. |
Post by finder // Oct 22, 2008, 11:41am
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finder
Total Posts: 66
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Hi
I like the scene and how you set it up. What I see that needs a little work is the front and the wall with the little windows need to be pulled up. Looks like the walls are not touching the roof. You may like to move the textures on the corner over a bit so the high spot are not right on the corner are remove them all together. Outside that; I like to see this when it is finish OH!! all that light and no lamp :p
Great Job :jumpy: |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 22, 2008, 12:44pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Wow, this looks great already. I like the idea of the man missing his train. Only suggestion I have is to give it that really closed for the night look you may want to place quite a bit of litter on the floor.
Breech Block...
Thank you! Funny you should mention the litter. That is the detail that I need to work on. I am still trying to master how to make a disheveled newspaper and other assorted trash.
Right now it looks like this rinky dink train station has a top notch cleaning service :) |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 23, 2008, 2:44am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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This shows great potential and I love the beches.
Pull up the walls as suggested, extend the floor so the world doesn't end on the right and adjust the textures so they're not repeating so obviously and it'll make a world of difference and lift this image even further before you've added any additional detail.
As for additional detail, litter as already suggested, posters/timetables for the wall and light fittings to show where the illumination is coming from which should be a little more even, as in from above, than as harshly directional as it is at the moment.
Fantastic start though, it'll be interesting to watch this develop. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 23, 2008, 1:13pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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WWOTW,
Thanks for the suggestions. That is exactly what my aim is, in regards to the litter throughout the station. I also planned on putting up old and worn looking schedules and such. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 25, 2008, 12:58am
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Good work here tahnoak,
One thing that caught my eye is the repeating texture on the walls, this really needs to be broken up a bit. And I agree with WWOTW about posters and timetables.
This is looking like a first class job with good texturing (my favourite:D)
keep up the good work.
Steve
Edit. If you do alter the wall texture... Think about where dirt would accumulate i.e.around the join between the walls and floors and in corners. Maybe some water damage along one wall. And a touch of graffiti. Details like this can turn a good texture job into a great texture job. (this might sound a bit precocious, but if you need any help give me a shout.) |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 25, 2008, 5:35am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Good work here tahnoak,
One thing that caught my eye is the repeating texture on the walls, this really needs to be broken up a bit. And I agree with WWOTW about posters and timetables.
This is looking like a first class job with good texturing (my favourite:D)
keep up the good work.
Steve
Edit. If you do alter the wall texture... Think about where dirt would accumulate i.e.around the join between the walls and floors and in corners. Maybe some water damage along one wall. And a touch of graffiti. Details like this can turn a good texture job into a great texture job. (this might sound a bit precocious, but if you need any help give me a shout.)
Steve,
Thanks for the comments. I will certainly take you up on that offer when I have a bit more time to focus on it (I took next week off from work).
I have made some pretty drastic changes to the original scene. Take a look and let me know what you think. I realized that while I really liked the lighting within the station, there was no identifiable source and that is pretty important at night time. I was also unsuccessful at manipulating that texture to make it less repetitive so I eventually gave up on it. I will come back to it some other time. I don't want to get wrapped around the axle on that one item.
I know the cigarette machines probably don't really look like an old cigarette vending machine but I am okay with that (not a smoker so I don't know). It is purely symbolic. I need to add another set of columns and tweak the lighting a bit more.
What I am really torn about right now is whether or not to put doors on the entry ways. It would show that it is closed but I also like in the original scene where you could see the train. It added to the feeling of helplessness because you cannot get on it. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 25, 2008, 7:55am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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The top pic is the same as the first isn't it? I'll only comment on the new one, lighting direction is much better and I really like the columns. I have an issue with the cigarette machines though, judging them against the benches they are huge and, to be honest, look more like station ashtrays than a cigarette machine. If it IS a machine, then there wouldn't be two and certainly not so close together. If they are ashtrays they certainly wouldn't be that massive and would more likely be between the seats. I won't comment on the wall texture as you say it's not finished. I do like the floor tiles texture but the scale is a little large (ok, more than a little!). I think I prefer the square, sandier tiles from the first pic though.
Keep it up! |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 25, 2008, 8:14am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Here is an idea (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=folding%20accordion%20gate&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) for your doorways.
I'm also thinking some 'old fashioned' incandescent rather than fluorescent light fixtures would match the original warmer lighting.
The benches beneath the ciggy machines look awkward... head-bumpers. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 25, 2008, 8:17am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Your first rendering had warm and inviting light. Your new rendering is using fluorescent lighting which comes across cold and uninviting.
I liked the first one.
The wall textures were more interesting in the first also.
I like the support poles you added.
Also the view from the camera was more interesting in the first.
The cigarette machines looked misplaced, set behind benches? Also they really don't add interest to the rendering.
This is what you get for asking for comments...:)
Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying the ride.
Edit: What the monkey said... |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 25, 2008, 10:54am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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The top pic is the same as the first isn't it? I'll only comment on the new one, lighting direction is much better and I really like the columns. I have an issue with the cigarette machines though, judging them against the benches they are huge and, to be honest, look more like station ashtrays than a cigarette machine. If it IS a machine, then there wouldn't be two and certainly not so close together. If they are ashtrays they certainly wouldn't be that massive and would more likely be between the seats. I won't comment on the wall texture as you say it's not finished. I do like the floor tiles texture but the scale is a little large (ok, more than a little!). I think I prefer the square, sandier tiles from the first pic though.
Keep it up!
Thanks for the response. I understand your issues with the cigarette machines. Like I said, I am going off memory of what the old ones used to look like way back when. They are not ashtrays. They are supposed to represent the kind where you put your money in them and pull the lever for a pack of cigarettes to drop out into the opening below the knobs. I just figured it was something you might see in a station.
Yeah, the floor tiles are a bit large and can be scaled down some. I like the scale on them but I am certainly not opposed to making changes and judging the impact on the overall scene.
Thanks again for the input. :) |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 25, 2008, 10:58am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Here is an idea (http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=folding%20accordion%20gate&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi) for your doorways.
I'm also thinking some 'old fashioned' incandescent rather than fluorescent light fixtures would match the original warmer lighting.
The benches beneath the ciggy machines look awkward... head-bumpers.
I cannot believe I did not think of the sliding grate type. That solves the dilemma, you can see the train but also realize the station is closed. EXCELLENT IDEA! :banana: Thank you.
I really wanted to use the old fashioned incandescent lights as well but I was having a hard time modelling them so I gave up :D and went with the easy flourescent lights.
I think it is just the position of the bench near the machines based on the viewing angle. They are not really that close. I am still uncertain if I am going to take it out or leave it in. I might work on the model a bit more so that it is clearer what they are. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 25, 2008, 11:02am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Your first rendering had warm and inviting light. Your new rendering is using fluorescent lighting which comes across cold and uninviting.
I liked the first one.
The wall textures were more interesting in the first also.
I like the support poles you added.
Also the view from the camera was more interesting in the first.
The cigarette machines looked misplaced, set behind benches? Also they really don't add interest to the rendering.
This is what you get for asking for comments...:)
Keep up the good work, I'm enjoying the ride.
Edit: What the monkey said...
Okay....okay, I get it. More interest in the first one. :)
I will see what I can do about using some of the items in the second one within the first set. I am getting some weird latent issue with the first scene. Everytime I render it, there is a wall blocking the windows along the wall that is NOT in the scene when it is not being rendered. I don't know what to do about that. Suggestions? I will put pics another time.
Believe me, I am waaaaay to new at this to be taking offense at anything someone says. I am trying to soak it all in so that next time I don't make the same mistakes. I certainly appreciate everyone's feedback. |
Post by MadMouse // Oct 25, 2008, 12:11pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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I have to agree with most and say I prefered the original lighting. The cigarette machines arent working for me at all (sorry). Good idea from Spacekdet for the doors though.
I will certainly take you up on that offer when I have a bit more time to focus on it
Just shout when you want me :D |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 26, 2008, 11:19am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Slight variation on the theme to the other two versions. I like the walls much better now. Still want to tweak the gate somewhat and I obviously need to put in a light source, adjust the light levels and locations as well as some more details (litter, schedules, posters, etc...).
Thanks again for all the suggestions and constructive criticism. I know not everybody is going to like what I do and I am okay with that. I may not even change what I have :p but in this instance I think you all were right. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 26, 2008, 11:49am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Looking good. Few points (sorry) the gates are fab (great idea there spacekdet) but seem to be set into the walls, they don't look like they can have any movement. The columnm right by the entrance seems really out of place and the benches by the walls are really uncomfortable. There's hardly any room to get in and then your facing a solid wall. If there were benches there I doubt very much they'd be double sided, just the one side looking into the room. I still think the floor tiles are too large. I don't mean to sound negative as on the whole I really like this image, they're just the areas that stand out to me as 'not quite right'.
Love the curl on the poster though, nice touch! |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 26, 2008, 12:29pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Looking good. Few points (sorry) the gates are fab (great idea there spacekdet) but seem to be set into the walls, they don't look like they can have any movement. The columnm right by the entrance seems really out of place and the benches by the walls are really uncomfortable. There's hardly any room to get in and then your facing a solid wall. If there were benches there I doubt very much they'd be double sided, just the one side looking into the room. I still think the floor tiles are too large. I don't mean to sound negative as on the whole I really like this image, they're just the areas that stand out to me as 'not quite right'.
Love the curl on the poster though, nice touch!
WWOTW,
Thanks again. I don't take it as negative. You are expressing your opinion and that is cool. I would have to disagree on the benches by the wall. I have been in enough stations where benches are that close and people like to prop their feet up on the wall (hey maybe I should darken the area of the wall by the bench like foot wear and tear) hmmmm.
Anyways, yeah, I know the gate is stuck in there. It is just a place holder for the overall appearance. I was working on the hinges separately.
The column, now that you mention it, it is way out of place there. Maybe it did not seem so out of place using a different viewpoint but from the one I chose it does not give enough depth to the wall.
I wish I could take credit for the curl on the poster but that is how the image was. I am not quite there yet. |
Post by rjeff // Oct 26, 2008, 2:43pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Love the image. You have managed to get the big players to help you and this is great. So now you can get some advice from a small minnow in this big pond. It is real easy to get the curl you want in a 3d form. If you take alook at my finished image for the Oct MMc I did some curls on a 2 sided plane by using the cloth sim in WS. It is real easy. All you have to do is subdivide your plane quite a few times to get a his res mesh. Then put 4 anchors on the corners. Not right on the corners but howerver much you want the paper to curl. Then just add a local wind and the ends will bend, but not the main paper. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 26, 2008, 3:05pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Love the image. You have managed to get the big players to help you and this is great. So now you can get some advice from a small minnow in this big pond. It is real easy to get the curl you want in a 3d form. If you take alook at my finished image for the Oct MMc I did some curls on a 2 sided plane by using the cloth sim in WS. It is real easy. All you have to do is subdivide your plane quite a few times to get a his res mesh. Then put 4 anchors on the corners. Not right on the corners but howerver much you want the paper to curl. Then just add a local wind and the ends will bend, but not the main paper.
hey rjeff, nice to "see" you again. That does sound pretty simple. I have played with the cloth sim some but not the wind. I will certainly give that a shot. I appreciate it.
Edit: I believe this is the lighting scheme I am going to stay with. It is "warm and inviting" yet enough shadows to keep an air of desolation about it. Pay no attention to the missing details. This was solely to solicit thoughts on the lighting scheme. |
Post by Finis // Oct 26, 2008, 6:34pm
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Finis
Total Posts: 386
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Great theme!
The light fixtures look good to me.
Suggestions:
You can put the emotion of the man in the scene by making the space around him larger and darker and positioning the objects appropriately.
A larger room with more space between things would enhance feelings of aloneness, distance and separation from his home, family, friends. To make the room seem larger make it taller so the total volume is increased and make things scaled for human use (benches, gates, litter) smaller. The proportions you had in the earlier pictures were about right to me.
A darker room or dark areas in the room would give general gloom but also represent that the once familiar is now unfamiliar. Where he has always known what to do now he does not. The place, even the train, that helps him go home is now a barrier to that. There is no one here to help. Enough darkness will make an impression of danger ... vs. the safety of home. Changing the fall off of the lights could produce a useful contrast between illuminated and dark areas.
Smaller items like the litter you plan for the scene can be positioned to to enhance aloneness and abandonment. Make an area around the man where the density of litter is less than elsewhere.
I'd like to see one of those benches up close and lit up. To show off the model not as part of the scene. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 27, 2008, 1:37am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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column placement and wall benches look much better to me. I like the lighting but think it is too bright, turning it down a bit will give more of an impression of end of day (think auxillary lighting rather than main).
Might want to extend the roof top left a touch too! :-) |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 27, 2008, 2:28am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Great theme!
The light fixtures look good to me.
Suggestions:
You can put the emotion of the man in the scene by making the space around him larger and darker and positioning the objects appropriately.
A larger room with more space between things would enhance feelings of aloneness, distance and separation from his home, family, friends. To make the room seem larger make it taller so the total volume is increased and make things scaled for human use (benches, gates, litter) smaller. The proportions you had in the earlier pictures were about right to me.
A darker room or dark areas in the room would give general gloom but also represent that the once familiar is now unfamiliar. Where he has always known what to do now he does not. The place, even the train, that helps him go home is now a barrier to that. There is no one here to help. Enough darkness will make an impression of danger ... vs. the safety of home. Changing the fall off of the lights could produce a useful contrast between illuminated and dark areas.
Smaller items like the litter you plan for the scene can be positioned to to enhance aloneness and abandonment. Make an area around the man where the density of litter is less than elsewhere.
I'd like to see one of those benches up close and lit up. To show off the model not as part of the scene.
Excellent suggestions. Thanks Finis. I have darkened the station a little bit and put a chain and lock on the barriers to help add to the finality of the situation. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 27, 2008, 2:41am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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column placement and wall benches look much better to me. I like the lighting but think it is too bright, turning it down a bit will give more of an impression of end of day (think auxillary lighting rather than main).
Might want to extend the roof top left a touch too! :-)
WWOTW,
Yeah, my wife overruled me on the bench along the wall. :) I must admit that it does look better. I also darkened it a bit and as I told Finis I added some chains and a lock to the barrier and some ceiling fans (not sure if I like them but a station like this might get hot during the day).
There is a little bit of litter but I am still working on those details. I also noticed the roof :o
Here is where we stand now. I know I need to tweak the posters (shadow should not be there).
Thanks for your help. |
Post by Breech Block // Oct 27, 2008, 2:48am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Wow, this is looking really great. I don't know if the view you are currently using is going to be the one you use for your final render, but if you find you need some more fillers, when I'm waiting for a train, nothing gets me more depressed than a newspaper kiosk with the shutter rolled down or an out of order coffee vending machine. HTH and keep up the good work. |
Post by Breech Block // Oct 27, 2008, 2:51am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Ohh...and an overflowing litter bin stuck in the corner that hasn't been emptied for weeks. |
Post by Steinie // Oct 27, 2008, 2:58am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Looking better!
The lighting looks great but the shadows do not match the placement of your physical lights.
Nice textures. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 27, 2008, 3:53am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Ohh...and an overflowing litter bin stuck in the corner that hasn't been emptied for weeks.
Thanks for the comments and funny you should mention that because that is what I was modeling next. I was not sure if I should put it by the locked gate partially obscured by the column or along the right wall with it only partially visible on the render. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 27, 2008, 4:21am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Looking better!
The lighting looks great but the shadows do not match the placement of your physical lights.
Nice textures.
Thanks Steinie. I previously put in a couple of point lights to help the atmosphere but I turned on shadows. I have turned them off which should eliminate that issue..... I hope. |
Post by tahnoak // Oct 27, 2008, 6:29am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Excellent suggestions. Thanks Finis. I have darkened the station a little bit and put a chain and lock on the barriers to help add to the finality of the situation.
Finis, here is a shot of the bench you asked for. I was not sure if you wanted to see it textured or not so I left it untextured. |
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