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tS7.5 errors and upcoming release
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
tS7.5 errors and upcoming release // Bugs
Post by MikeNTX // May 27, 2007, 1:08pm
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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Does anyone know what bugs the upcoming release will fix? I am asking because I seen a few problems since I upgraded to 7.5 with VRay 1.5. I should say one caveat here about all of this is that I am running Win2K on my PC. I did not want to go to XP Pro till I bought a new PC.
I am finding that tS is crashing a lot and every time it is when I have VRay selected as the renderer. I have tS crash even just assigning a material to an object. Particularly when the material is a glass reflectance I find it crashes a lot more. Also when rendering an image it crashes at times. Oddly in some scenes it never will and others it will every time. Often the larger the scene the faster it will crash on me.
The other problem I see is when using the up/down, left/right for object selecting. So using a down arrow to break a object into its components then the left and right arrows sometimes does not work or I have to push them several times before they will. Again just when I have VRay selected as the renderer. This does not happen every time and never seems to be predictable.
Again I am just wondering of others have seen this problem too and will it be fixed soon. Or is this a problem because I am using Win2K and not XP. I am asking now because when I upgraded I was told I had a 30 day return like others do if it does not work out and I would like to know now if these problems are fixable or not.
Thanks |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 1:27pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hmm... is your video card shader 2.0 compliant? nvidia 6 series or better? And do you have DX9 installed and working? If not that could be the source of a lot of your crashes.
If you have specific scenes and instances are causing reliable crashes, you should post them to the bugs section so the devs and beta testers can take a look at them. The problems only get fixed if they know about them. It's definitely not Caligari's intent to release buggy software. ;)
If your problems are hardware/OS related and it's going to be a while before you can upgrade your hardware, maybe it would be a better idea to put the money you spent on TS into better hardware and purchase TS again later when you have a more up-to-date system and the patches are out? :confused:
-Jack. |
Post by MikeNTX // May 27, 2007, 2:01pm
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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I have a Radeon 9600 card, Directx 9.0c, AMD Athlon XP 2800, 1GB ram, 160GB drives x2, In workspace everything looks great and other times it all works except for the problems I mentioned. |
Post by JPSofCA // May 27, 2007, 2:08pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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I've had something happen with VRay 1.5 where after I enter point edit, or use inference lines to add cubes (this while just happening to be using a transparent shader) I would go to render and partway (in no particular percent) the program would just blink out of existence. Is this what you're experiencing?
I've tried to pin the problem down (although not too much time was spent doing so) and after several attempts - I might try more later - I have for now classified this one in my own book as unpredictable. *so far* |
Post by weaveribm // May 27, 2007, 2:17pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I've got all the good kit Jack and working on the same scene in 7.5 it's a bit of a nightmare, no problems or not too many (layer scaling) in 7.11
Thing is I'm really missing 7.5 there's so much good stuff in there and I'll be glad when the service pack is out so I can get back in there. If I wasn't working on something that needs me to press on and not get distracted (first rule of getting things done) :) I'd sit down and make notes and so on to submit problems. With something so complex and relatively new one doesn't like to call things bugs in case it's us. At some point one has to just press on but looking forward to having 7.5 working as smoothly as 7.11 currently does for me and very confident that it'll be ok
Mrs Peter hearing me biting the furniture from the next room offered me a load of money to buy another 3D package "If It's driving you mad..."
I had a look (educational prices - nice) but I can't see anything around that's anywhere near as good value or as interesting or as dammit lovable :) as TrueSpace. I knew even while I was looking that TS has no competition for me but I do also know that I'm lucky I don't need to use it at work or for paid work with deadlines, could get stressful
The up-arrow/down-arrow thing to get inside object groups didn't work so well for me Mike but after a while I got the hang of it and it works ok now. I did see someone advising someone to look in the Scene Editor where all the sub-objects have their own little space where you can select sub-objects very easily, and that also works well. These forums are full of people you can call on for help my advice would be to stick with it
At work btw Mike I have a measly (Research Machines P2 900MHz) 128MB system RAM would-you-believe :) and a GeForce2 card and TS7.11 works fine there, it's very efficient. I've never had a TS crash on that very low-spec machine. Jack's advised making notes and trying to replicate any errors you find and I bet they're fixable if you post up the testing story people are very happy to help and boost one's morale and so on :)
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 2:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Okay. Well you should be ok with those system specs.
Hmm... could this be an out of memory issue? Have you tried doing the render with Task Manager open so you can watch and see if you run out of memory during the render?
I'm not saying it's not a bug, but I had something similar happening to me when rendering caustics and it turned out that once my memory usage started getting up around 2GB things would get bad and it would crash pretty badly. So definitely worth checking out. Running TS7.5 + VRay on 1GB of RAM is probably pretty marginal. More ram definitely helps out a lot, but unfortunately with parts (modeler in particular) of TS still stuck being 32bit code, TS can only access a 2GB memory space anyway... :(
I'm definitely looking forward to the day when TS can go 64 bit and these memory issues are no longer a problem. Of course that would mean upgrading to Vista x64. ;)
Hope that helps!
-Jack. |
Post by weaveribm // May 27, 2007, 2:28pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I've had something happen with VRay 1.5 where after I enter point edit... (this while just happening to be using a transparent shader) I would go to render and partway (in no particular percent) the program would just blink out of existence.
That's the one JPS that describes exactly a show-stopping problem for me. Halfway through a Vray render and TS7.5 just vanishes. Thanks I'm not going bonkers then :) (I was painting a face in Workspace and this vanishing act happened once too)
The ellipsis there btw in my quoting you means that I left out a part of your sentence but the sense remains exactly the same.
I asked about TrueSpace error logs when I described this bug a day or two ago in my post about this as there were no error messages thrown. One to try to repeat for Caligari support's attention if you can spare the time
Peter |
Post by JPSofCA // May 27, 2007, 3:03pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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The ellipsis there btw in my quoting you means that I left out a part of your sentence but the sense remains exactly the same.
I know how the ellipsis works. :p I always look for misquotes so I can take it to trial, but the educational system has foiled my plans again. Curses!
All kidding aside, when I read your post I thought that it may be a similar circumstance, especially when you mentioned it happening with transparent material.
I have 2GB of memory and an Intel P4 (without HT). But if I get the notion and I come across it again I will try it with the Task Manager and Performance monitors running.
Also to Peter, you mind comparing installation practices with me?
Here's my situation:
1) Had 7.5 installed with VRay 1.0.
2) Installed VRay 1.5 right over it to find it not working.
3) I uninstalled both VRays and restarted my computer before successfully reinstalling Vray 1.5.
I don't see why it should really, really matter...but it doesn't hurt to see if you followed the exact same steps as I did - narrows the possibilities and all. :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 3:41pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ok couple other things, since I think I may have misread your first post.
When you change the material parameters TS actually calls VRay to render the preview.
About the arrow keys, I think they cycle through all nodes at a particular level, whether they have visible geometry or not. You may want to open the link editor and see if that matches with what you're seeing.
Also to uninstall VRay make sure you click on the uninstaller in the truespace folder instead of using control panel. And you do need to reboot after installing VRay for it to work properly. Definitely uninstall 1.0 before installing 1.5.
Keep in mind that VRay panels are saved w/ the scene so if you're upgrading from 1.0, it might be a good idea to export out your objects, start a new scene and re-import them. Or maybe save out to 6.6 scn format, reset default context, then reload it?
Can you guys define for me what you mean by render? Are you talking about the VRay Render icon or the DX Render to File icon?
I'm not sure what you mean about PE and render. Are you clicking render while a PE tool is still active? That you are all reporting something very similar seems to indicate to me that this is a bug that should be findable and solvable. Do you remember the exact steps that lead to the crash?
BTW, about the assigning materials thing, I've found assigning materials is very slow in the current implementation. Sometimes what looks like a crash is just TS taking a VERY long time. (Of course trueSpace dissapearing is definitely a crash! ;) ) When assigning to hierarchies I've seen it take as long a 10 minutes to completely the material assignment. :mad: I'm hoping that if I complain loud enough about it, it will get fixed with the patch. The work around is to select each object in the hierarchy and paint them individually. Basically don't try to material paint a particle system generated in Model side with workspace side ME. :p
-Jack. |
Post by stan // May 27, 2007, 4:32pm
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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• Windows Vista, XP or XP Pro.
from the trueSpace7.5 Specifications
no mention of win2k, that could be your issue MikeNTX..I think with 7.11 it was still possible.. |
Post by JPSofCA // May 27, 2007, 4:33pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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I would hit the VRay render button, it would do its signature VRay "scribble", but partway through the render trueSpace would literally just blink out of existence. The program, the render window...everything! *BLINK* Gone.
Windows XP Pro, here. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 4:42pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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And when you say transparent material, do you mean transparency mapped or transmissive?
Also what VRay settings do you have on. For example, caustics? GI? Transparent Shadows?
If you save before rendering and it happens again, can you post the scene?
-Jack. |
Post by MikeNTX // May 28, 2007, 9:10am
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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Well now I am more discouraged about this. First of all not heard a word of what is coming up in the new release. But then I am sure the Caligari folks are off the weekend so that is ok. But I guess these software upgrades are now getting to be more than my pc can handle. I do need to upgrade to a new PC but I know when I bring that up my wife will have a long list of other things she will want before I buy another PC. So maybe I have to let this upgrade go back till I get a better PC. But it was just such a good price for the upgrade and hate to miss that. |
Post by weaveribm // May 28, 2007, 10:38am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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I would hit the VRay render button, it would do its signature VRay "scribble", but partway through the render trueSpace would literally just blink out of existence. The program, the render window...everything! *BLINK* Gone.
Exactamente. That's what I had too. Blink describes it very well. 1/35 seconds is the eyeblink reflex and this is quicker
Thing is we still have 7.11 in its own folder and installation so it's not a huge problem - if frustrating - if files are saved. Anything like an error log if that's generated would be useful to know. There's the Dr Watson error handler but I'm not sure how to use that. It tracks these fundamental application crashes I think. A TS error log would be ideal if the application had time to write one. It would be close.
Peter |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 28, 2007, 11:07am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Both VRay and TrueSpace generate logs. You can find them in your ts directory. The truespace log is Rosetta.log
They are erased each time you restart TS, so make sure you copy them out before reloading.
-Jack. |
Post by MikeNTX // May 28, 2007, 12:02pm
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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Here is a file that crashes VRay every time I go to render it. I am also including the log files. When I go to render this it crashes within the first five seconds. I was watching the memory in the Task Manager and I still had about 250mb free when it crashed.
I am rendering in modeler with VRay selected as the renderer and using full screen render from the top.
Again I am using a Radeon 7600 graphics card, an Althon XP 2800+ CPU with 1GB ram, all running Win2K with all updates and Directx 9.0c. using tS7.5 and VRay 1.5 |
Post by SiW // May 28, 2007, 1:33pm
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Mike,
You'll be happy to know that this sporadic crashing with glass materials has been fixed, and you'll be able to render your scene as soon as the service release is ready. |
Post by MikeNTX // Jun 1, 2007, 5:06am
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MikeNTX
Total Posts: 28
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I am glad to hear that the bug with the glass material is fixed and hope that maybe the bug of the HDR maps do not match between LightWorks and Vray is fixed too. The last couple days I have been working with the HDRI lighting and I am so very impressed with it that I will for sure hang on to tS 7.5 and VRay 1.5. |
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