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UV space destroyed by transferring to Workspace
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
UV space destroyed by transferring to Workspace // Bugs
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 2:35am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I wanted to have at least a look at the new UV editor. And noticed that a mapped object arrives with destroyed UV space in workspace. The workspace itself shows it mapped as it should be. But the UV Mapping Editor shows something different ...
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/uveditor.jpg
This was just a simple object with 145 faces.
By the way, how do you navigate in the new UV editor? The widget as we have it in old UV mapping editor is missing. I was at least able to zoom in with the scrollwheel.
I know, this is more a rant and rave one. But I am really pissed now. No matter what i touch, i end in making a screenshot. I don't think i will touch TS 7.5 again before the first patch arrives. I cannot model in Workspace, i cannot texture in Workspace, i cannot rig and animate in Workspace without stumbling across a bug or quirk. When it even works. TS 7.5 is currently useless for me. |
Post by Steinie // May 26, 2007, 3:18am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Early on I asked repeatedly if UV Editor was being improved and to show us screen shots if they did. I was making a decision to buy other software at the time. They didn't...I did....now I know why.
Tiles, don't take this the wrong way but sometimes you have been posting before you fully explore or learn some of the new features in TS7.5 only to find it is not really a bug but a change.
For UV editing (for me at least) is one of the more important areas I wanted Caligari to improve. I often wonder who there actually uses their own tools, (UV, Bevel, Widgets smack in your face etc) |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 6:58am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Tiles, don't take this the wrong way but sometimes you have been posting before you fully explore or learn some of the new features in TS7.5 only to find it is not really a bug but a change.
I don't get it wrong. Please never stop telling me when i am wrong in any point. When needed with a club. I love and need the feedback :)
Well, sometimes i post indeed a bit quick. But most of the times when i stumble over a quirk i first check if it is repeatable. Then i have a look at TS 6.6 how it is handled there. And then i post it. When it`s a bug, we all benefit from it. When it's a new feature, well, better post one time too often. This may even help Caligari to rethink about some changings when other users are also in trouble with that. And i learn also alot by this. Sorry when i sometimes steal your time with that :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 26, 2007, 5:02pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I've found that the bridge doesn't always update UV mapping changes made on model side. So one workaround is to turn the bridge off, turn it back on, and choose "sync from model side". This forces an update of the UV mappings in Workspace.
Navigating in the Workspace UVE is a middle mouse drag. Workspace UVE does an ok job and is pretty good for some things. For example, it has real-time texture updating. So you can paint your texture in PhotoShop or Gimp and watch the changes update on your model every time you save changes to the temp file UVE creates.
But I'd recommend Ultimate Unwrap 3D if you need more serious UV tools. Over the last few months, I've been making recommendations to Caligari for improvements to the UVE, maybe some of them will get implemented. *shrug*
-Jack. |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 10:07pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Thanks for the advice :)
Middle mouse drag doesn't work for me. Nothing happens. Hmm. Optical Logitech MX310. MMButton has nothing assigned, and works in other software. So it shouldn't be my mouse.
Have turned off Bridge. Reloaded the scene, turned Bridge on, entered Workspace, entered UV Editor, same result as above. The UV space is messed up.
Moving the messed up UV pieces in UV Editor in Workspace does: nothing.
No way to work with UV Editor in Workspace.
Hmm, can it be that it's because i have loaded a TS 6.6 Scene? It is a simple low poly house i am working at. Has currently a checker texture applied. 13 Kb:
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/uveditortestobject.zip
Load it into TS 7.5, open the UV Editor in Workspace, and have a look :)
UU3D, well, currently i use Roadkill for unwrapping. And UV Mapping Editor then to clean up the unwrap. Works for me. And i am somehow comfortable with :) |
Post by SteveBe // May 26, 2007, 10:21pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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Hi Tiles,
Try clicking the Previous & Next buttons in the UV Editor Preferences in the Panels stack. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 26, 2007, 10:32pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Wow! Great catch Steve! :banana: I was just about to say that this looked like a bug. Sure enough if you paint the object with one material, it's all there.
Bummer about the middle mouse button thing. It works fine for me and that's pretty much the only way to get around in the new UVE. Come to think of it, that's going to be a problem for a lot of laptop users too.
Does middle mouse work for panning (+CTRL) and rotating in Workspace view for you?
Bet you can't do this in Roadkill:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=33435&postcount=37
:p
-Jack. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 26, 2007, 10:34pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Nice house BTW tiles :)
I really like low poly stuff.
-Jack. |
Post by Tiles // May 26, 2007, 11:06pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Thanks. But isn't finished yet. I hope i can give it a decent texture then so that it turns out as a house in the end. That's the trouble part with Low Poly. The details has to go into the textures. And then there is me with my ten thumbs :D
Oh my. And i wondered where to navigate to the separated UV parts. That would have been my next question :p
Thank you SteveBe :)
Another riddle is solved too. I have seen diagonal lines. That's why i thought that the UV space is not just shrink down to something, but disorted too. But it triangulates the mesh in UV Editor.
Hmm. And how do i display all meshparts at once? One question solved, another question comes up :)
Does middle mouse work for panning (+CTRL) and rotating in Workspace view for you?
Nope. Holding down MMB and moving around with the mouse does nothing. Neither with held down CTRL. Seems that we stumbled across a serious issue here.
Bet you can't do this in Roadkill:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespac...5&postcount=37
Everything is possible. But to achieve your result i surely would need some countless hours to clean up the unwrap in TS UV Mapping Editor then,and would need to remap some parts in UV Mapping Editor :D
Your shot could convince me when i wouldn't have a this limited budget. Looks really great when it can sort this way. Still, I always need to double think twice before i buy something, unfortunately. And so i rely more on freeware whereever possible ...
Roadkill is a fine freeware tool. But still has its limits and quirks. That's why i need the UV Mapping Editor too. I was in touch with the programmer of Roadkill. And he has some more suggestions now to implement. Let's have a look how the next release looks like :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 27, 2007, 1:16pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Tiles,
Ok the reason I asked if MMB was working in workspace at all was to figure out if trueSpace was picking up your MMB clicks at all. Since it's not, it's more likely that there's something not correctly configured with your mouse drivers. Odd that you mention it working in other programs, though.
What mouse and software drivers are you using?
Also you may want to try changing the setting for the middle mouse button. My drivers have an option something like "default", which is different than not having it set to anything.
Yeah UVE triangulates the meshes. There are options for "polygon" and "sharpness" which change the highlights, but both are based on normals, not actual polygon boundries. The Sharpness setting is VERY cool, but I think the "polygon" setting should read the edge flags instead of doing it by normal which is a bit confusing -- but I suppose could be useful for knowing which sections are really part of the same "face" of the model.
It'd be very cool if Roadkill gets more functionality. It's always great to have more freeware apps to add to your arsenal. :D
-Jack. |
Post by Tiles // May 27, 2007, 10:01pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Yuo have lead me to the right road. Thank you. Buttons setup was wrong. I gave it a second go and got it. I need to set the MMB to "mittlere Maustaste", which means Middle mouse button. Now it works :D
The factory settings sets it to Universal scroll. Which doesn't work then. And when i set it to "nicht zugwiesen" (which means not defined) it also refuses to work. And that's what i did, unfortunately :)
Nevertheless funny that TS doesn't sort the buttons by its own needs. Normally a software doesn't rely on the Window button settings, but checks what button is pressed/held down/ released. No matter how it is setup. Because the user may have setup this buttons for his own needs like i did. And that's the reason why i haven't even thought of wrong setup mouse buttons.
Yay, another mystery solved :)
MMB is nevertheless a serious issue for Laptopusers ...
Now there is just one minor thing missing: how do i display the whole mesh at once? Because else i cannot sort the meshparts ... :) |
Post by SteveBe // May 27, 2007, 11:06pm
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SteveBe
Total Posts: 282
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In modeler, sample your texture with eye dropper, then press Paint object.
Then goto workSpace and all should be there. |
Post by Tiles // May 27, 2007, 11:55pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah thank you very much. Last riddle solved. Inspect and clicking Paint object then does it. Works also in Workspace by the way :)
Hmm. But now my meshparts aren't separated anymore. Clicking at the previous/next buttons does nothing. What about the functionality of the old UV Mapping Editor where you could navigate through the separated UV Spaces but still had a full view with all UV pieces when necessary? :( |
Post by marekk // May 31, 2007, 2:04am
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marekk
Total Posts: 10
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t I think the "polygon" setting should read the edge flags instead of doing it by normal which is a bit confusing -- but I suppose could be useful for knowing which sections are really part of the same "face" of the model.
-Jack.
It actually does. Maybe "Polygons" mode should be replaced by "Faces" not to confuse people. |
Post by marekk // May 31, 2007, 2:18am
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marekk
Total Posts: 10
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Yuo have lead me to the right road. Thank you. Buttons setup was wrong. I gave it a second go and got it. I need to set the MMB to "mittlere Maustaste", which means Middle mouse button. Now it works :D
The factory settings sets it to Universal scroll. Which doesn't work then. And when i set it to "nicht zugwiesen" (which means not defined) it also refuses to work. And that's what i did, unfortunately :)
Nevertheless funny that TS doesn't sort the buttons by its own needs. Normally a software doesn't rely on the Window button settings, but checks what button is pressed/held down/ released. No matter how it is setup. Because the user may have setup this buttons for his own needs like i did. And that's the reason why i haven't even thought of wrong setup mouse buttons.
Yay, another mystery solved :)
MMB is nevertheless a serious issue for Laptopusers ...
Now there is just one minor thing missing: how do i display the whole mesh at once? Because else i cannot sort the meshparts ... :)
UV editor currently supports viewing only one material at a time, since paint/import/export texture tools work with single texture only. Since mesh parts have different materials assigned, you don't need to worry about their mutual positions and/or overlapping in most cases.
Some applications, particularly games do their own assignments of action to mouse buttons. But in classical applications this is defined by driver level. If you assign the left click to "whatever button", applicaton always gets the left click when you press that "whatever button", without inspecting what mouse do you have, how many buttons does it have and how the assignments are done. This approach is useful especially when left-handed user does not need to setup left-handed mouse in every single application he uses, or even worse, has no way to set it up when unsupported by applicaton
Laptop touchpad is a real pain when it comes to modelling. With UVE or without. I have tried it myself for five minutes during development and testing on laptop and then I ran to buy a mouse. I think that middle button-based navigation is much faster and efficient than hunting the widget in corner every time one needs to scroll, as long as you have the mouse. However I understand that tS6.6 users are used to the widget |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 31, 2007, 2:32am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Maybe a compromise would be to have the ability to turn off the widget?
Also with reguards to the Polygon mode thing. I think it would be useful to add a 4th mode that shows the model untriangulated.
The issue with multiple textures is that assigning different materials is a method used to quickly an visually break the UV up into distinct patches which are then mapped seperately. They still need to be organized back onto the final (single material) map. Also it is not uncommon with game dev for different objects to share the same texture map (UV mapped to different parts of the image) in order use the texture space more efficiently. So it is important to be able to manage multi groupings of materials and UVs in the UVE simultaneously. How this is made managable in some other apps is by allowing for a select by patch option so that contiguous sections of UVs can be manipulated as single objects and then positioned, rotated, and scaled.
-Jack. |
Post by Tiles // May 31, 2007, 2:50am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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UV editor currently supports viewing only one material at a time, since paint/import/export texture tools work with single texture only. Since mesh parts have different materials assigned, you don't need to worry about their mutual positions and/or overlapping in most cases.
Hmm, i disagree here. Simply unwrap in Roadkill for example. You will get several independand meshparts. At one Texture.
And that's what i need. In old UV Mapping Editor you can navigate through the separated pieces one by one. And you can have a look at all the pieces at once too when you need to.
I personally need both ways. The complete look at the UV mesh, and a way to navigate to some parts of it without the need to select them with rectangle for example. The parts may in a later stage be arranged in a manner where you cannot select them easily by rectangle anymore ;) |
Post by transient // May 31, 2007, 2:55pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I'm not sure if I'm correctly understanding this problem, but I thought in gameSpace it would have been great to be able to have the different parts of the uvmap on different layers like Photoshop.
Then you could work on the parts of the uv that you wanted and toggle visibility for the others rather than scrolling through them,which I found a bit painful. It would be even cooler if you could toggle visibility for the hidden layers individually or all at once. |
Post by Jack Edwards // May 31, 2007, 8:40pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Good point Transient. That's the way that UU3D handles when you group by material and paint the different sections different materials.
-Jack. |
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