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Now you see it, now you don't.
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Now you see it, now you don't. // Bugs
Post by spacekdet // May 19, 2007, 8:42am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Or, the Mystery of the Disappearing Material.
Here's the setup:
Simple scene, just an experiment with Soft Paint and Soft Selection.
I'm in Workspace view.
Subdivided Plane, a bit of mesh editing, nothing fancy.
Switch to Model in order to render the thing. Oh, it's black as tar...hard to see what's what. Let's paint it white. H'mm, this is odd... Color is set to white, yet the Preview window still shows black. Render, ok, it's indeed white, no matter what the Preview tells me. OK, let's switch back to Workspace. Is it white in Workspace? No... it's black again. Just for kicks, lets go back to Model.
Yes, you might have guessed it...my white material has gone on a walkabout somewhere switching between modes.
Is it White? Is it Black? Why won't my material stick?
I remember when this used to be fun, instead of just making me angry. |
Post by Steinie // May 19, 2007, 8:59am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I know your very experienced in TS so I won't begin to try to help you, like a student helping his instructor.....all I can say is "Francis!".... |
Post by prodigy // May 19, 2007, 9:40am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Space.. can you show the full shader setup that are you using?? |
Post by spacekdet // May 19, 2007, 9:49am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Sure, but it's not very tasty, unlike a real Oreo Cookie. |
Post by prodigy // May 19, 2007, 10:00am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Space but if you has Luminance in 0 and Diffuse in 0 you allways gonna get an oreo ;) |
Post by spacekdet // May 19, 2007, 10:19am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Ok, can I classify this under Faulty Default Settings, then?
Luminance I can see having a default value of 0, but to have every reflectance parameter zeroed out as a default value?
It just confuses us stupid people.
It's not broken, it's supposed to be this way!
Still curious as to why it changes itself when I switch between modeler and workspace, and why it renders and displays as white in modeler the first time but not after switching sides.
Thanks, Prodigy.
Steinie, report to the Office and see Mr. Francis the Guidance Counselor about signing up for the Summer Re-Education Camp.
I think you need Sensitivity Training in dealing with people with Anger Issues. |
Post by Tiles // May 19, 2007, 9:00pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Hmm, no clue what caused your reflectange shader settings to reset every value to zero. Works fine here. Which reflectangle shader is it?
Model side doesn't care if the LUM and DIF are at zero. It just cares about the colour to display. And so it shows white, even with LUM and DIF at zero. You need to render it to show how the material really appears.
Change DIF to not to be zero and it should work. Set it to 0.9 for example, which is a default setting for the normal Phong shader. As told before, when LUM and DIF are at zero the material turns out black when rendering.
Which leads to the workspace. Here it is rendering all the time: with DirectX. LUM and DIF are zero, and so the material turns out black.
One more pitfall: the lights from Modeler doesn't always enlighten the Workspace. I had my fun with that before, and found myself in a darkroom :D
Insert an ambient light into the workspace, and you will be enlightened :) |
Post by spacekdet // May 20, 2007, 8:55am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Tiles, you asked for further clarification in #trueSpace, so here are some visuals. Shader is plain color, Caligari Phong reflectance.
I begin in Workspace. Create plane, subdivide.
Perform Displacement Brush operation, move a few points around.
SDS the plane a couple times.
Note it's default color- jet black.
6247
Now, I switch to Model. Open Material Editor, change color to white, add diffusion value. Paint Object.
6248
Return to Workspace.
Hit it, Angus! Back In Black!
6249
Return to Model, and use the Inspect Tool in the ME- all reflectance values are reset to zero and the color has also changed from black to white and back again.
6250 |
Post by Tiles // May 20, 2007, 11:19pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, now things gets clearer. Looks like a bridge quirk :)
Wasn`t able to reproduce your quirk though. But that might be because of my two left hands and ten thumbs. I am not familiar with modeling tools in workspace yet.
What i found is that the reflectangle shader switched from normal phong with its four sliders to caligari phong with its seven sliders by switching forward to workspace and back to modeler.
Not by just switching between modeler and workspace. But by trying to reproduce the above quirk. Means i have created a plane, quad divided it in modeler, then did some modifications with the sopftpaint brush and applied SDS in workspace. Then switched back to modeler and found myself in front of the Caligari Phong shader instead the normal phong . And the mesh also had this shader applied then. So there is definitely something quirky :) |
Post by weaveribm // May 22, 2007, 11:50pm
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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Yes, you might have guessed it...my white material has gone on a walkabout somewhere switching between modes.
Is it White? Is it Black? Why won't my material stick?
I remember when this used to be fun, instead of just making me angry.
Sympathy mate and I can report that I have this exact problem losing textures changing from Workspace to Model windows and back again (Boolean ops)
I mentioned it a couple of days ago but only being a beginner I didn't want to assume that this is bugginess until someone who knows the ropes finds the same problem...
I was trying out the Vray renderer in Workspace and a simple wooden floorboard nothing complex but the texture would be lost on switching to Model window and back. The texture was the Vray simple wood procedural texture. Seemed odd that such a simple function should fail to 'stick' so I thought it was me.
Now you've got me worried I was going to have another bash at this after the Liverpool massive win if they can keep Kaka quiet :)
Peter |
Post by spacekdet // May 23, 2007, 4:41am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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For what it's worth, the bridge is set to factory settings of Auto, Smart Synch, with a synch frequency of 30.000. 30.000 units of what, I'm not sure. VRay is not present. |
Post by Bobbins // May 23, 2007, 5:39am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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A couple of points here that might help understand.
When you swap between Model and Workspace views, tS has to translate a lot of stuff through the Bridge to synchronise the views. Geometry, lights and shaders amongst others gets transferred every time you click the Model or Workspace tabs. There are some things that cannot be transferred, like array data and other things that have no direct 1:1 translation - cameras, lights and materials among them. The Bridge does the best job it can in all cases, such as trying to translate a LightWorks material in Model view to the nearest equivalent material in Workspace. One thing it cannot do well is the reverse, though. Translating a Workspace material to a Lightworks material in Model view is problematic.
I suspect your problems are being caused by the Bridge translating the materials as best it can but with the continual swapping between Workspace and Model views any errors are going to get compounded. |
Post by weaveribm // May 23, 2007, 8:18am
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weaveribm
Total Posts: 592
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There are some things that cannot be transferred, like... lights and materials
This seems very weird but it might be me not reading the manual as usual. I wonder what the bridge is for then if it's not bridging between Model and Workspace scenes. Lights and materials would appear to be the daily bread things for which the bridge was built. What else is there, geometry data and wotnot but then Boolean functions aren't implemented across the bridge and those functions in turn don't know about lights and materials. Alice Through The Looking Glass. Ooh that's an idea :)
Thanks Bobbins it's very early 7.5 days and no hassling from me at all I'll take 7.5 as it is (it's part of the family by now) everything can be worked around and these few weirdnesses will get sorted in due course I'm sure
Peter |
Post by Bobbins // May 23, 2007, 8:56am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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That's not a very clever quote - manipulating the sentence to look like something I never actually said.
The Bridge is there for two primary functions:
An importer to allow old tS objects and scenes to be imported.
A link to allow tools that are not yet in Workspace to be used in Model view.
It does the best job possible translating the info, but expecting identical results is unrealistic. Imagine you have two programs - say tS6.6 and Hash A:M. Would you expect to be able to model in one package, export the scene and import to the other and carry on working, export the scene again and import back and do something else and then continue in that vein. At every step would you expect the lights, materials, geometry, animation, render settings and so on to be maintained? This is the closest explanation I give as to exactly what the Bridge is attempting to do. |
Post by spacekdet // May 24, 2007, 4:43am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Yes, the bridge has a big job to do, but I didn't expect it to fumble a plain color shader and caligari phong.
I enjoy texturing. I just know now not to do it until I'm sure I'm done modeling or moving an object into or out of Workspace.
Unless I'm modeling Oreo Cookies, then I'm covered! |
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