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Bonesfun 1
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Post by Tiles // May 17, 2007, 11:18pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Undo and Bones seems to be a chapter by itself. I have rigged a mesh. Then skinned it, grabbed one of the IK handler, pulled, and pressed UNDO to go back to the previous pose. Nope ...
First shot: not attached without handlers. Just to show how the bones were aligned.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/bonesfun1_1.jpg
Then added IK handlers, skinned it, pulled it a bit, and hit UNDO
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/bonesfun1_2.jpg
Even hitting UNDO to go back to the unskinned version just showed a deformed skeleton then. Now nothing fits anymore.
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/bonesfun1_3.jpg
Impossible to work with Bones that way. |
Post by trueBlue // May 18, 2007, 6:29am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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There is a Set and Reset Pose tool. |
Post by Tiles // May 18, 2007, 6:37am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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And there is an Undo.
Sure, i could also record keyframe every time i pull at a bone. But Undo should nevertheless reset to the previous action. Else the Undo is worthless. And it is in this case ;) |
Post by RichLevy // May 18, 2007, 6:46am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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does it do it "every" time you do that? I do sometimes run into problems with the undo or "CTRL Z" functions, though not every time. To say it is worthless might be a tad bit harsh...
Work around is setting the default pose as was suggested by TrueBlue so you can go back to your default relax pose, or making sure you am setting keyframes for your poses so that you do not lose more than the one pose when you do run into this. I find this annoying and inconvenient, but it does not hinder me from animating and getting things done.
HTH
Rich |
Post by Tiles // May 18, 2007, 7:05am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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[/quote]but it does not hinder me from animating and getting things done.[/quote]
But it hinders me ;)
This bug is a critical in my opinion. Undo should undo fine. When you cannot rely to undo what is it worth then? When not knowing about this you might loose your work. And even when knowing, the workaround isn't always the way to go.
For the workaround you might follow this thread. Reset pose seems to have its issues too:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2949
Anyway, thanks for tips and comments :) |
Post by RichLevy // May 18, 2007, 7:14am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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but it does not hinder me from animating and getting things done.[/quote]
But it hinders me ;)
This bug is a critical in my opinion. Undo should undo fine. When you cannot rely to undo what is it worth then? When not knowing about this you might loose your work. And even when knowing, the workaround isn't always the way to go.
For the workaround you might follow this thread. Reset pose seems to have its issues too:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2949
Anyway, thanks for tips and comments :)[/QUOTE]
My apologies for trying to offer a work around :)
That thread is not pointing out a problem I am aware of, I use the reset pose all the time. It will be interesting to see what his situation might be though.
Best of luck to you.
Rich |
Post by Tiles // May 18, 2007, 7:21am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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No, offering a workaround is a fine thing. I thank you and trueBlue for that. Sorry when i bugged you with my answer. Wasn't my intention. Any help is appreciated. Still, it is a bug :)
Ah, forgot to answer the question if it happens always. I doesn't happen when working with the dynamic pose button. Just when i use the IK handlers. And here it is reproduceable. Glad you asked :) |
Post by RichLevy // May 18, 2007, 7:49am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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can you reproduce it on other models? I just tried to make it do it and I am not able to reproduce it the same way you describe. Either I am not using all of your steps, or there is something you are not mentioning in your description.
Anything you can say that helps the developers reproduce it 100% of the time will help to get it fixed.
Rich |
Post by Tiles // May 18, 2007, 8:07am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I will do my best to help out track this one down :)
Phew, haven't tested it with other meshes so far. Still at finding my way through the new bones. I assume that scenes saved with TS 7.5 modelside includes the textures. And i have saved the scene with that. So here the scene before i added IK handlers and skinned it, 2.4 MB
http://reinerstileset.4players.de/ext/riggen3.zip
How to reproduce:
Load scene. Add IK handler at the headbone. Attach skin to skeleton. Pull the headbone IK handler a bit. Then hit Undo. That`s it so far :) |
Post by RichLevy // May 18, 2007, 8:21am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Ok, that helps out tremendously!
I'll post in beta area.
In the future if you have your workflow go like this you might have better luck.
rig character with your mesh
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skin rig to mesh
Joint Limits**
IKHandles and Locks
have fun and animate
** you can do the Joint Limits before skinning or afterwared it doesn't matter
In previous betas you were not able to add IKHandles till after the rig was skinned to the character, never tested it this way.
Rich |
Post by tomasb // May 18, 2007, 10:04am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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Undo problem confirmed & fixed. |
Post by xmanflash // May 18, 2007, 1:42pm
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xmanflash
Total Posts: 335
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Ok, that helps out tremendously!
I'll post in beta area.
In the future if you have your workflow go like this you might have better luck.
rig character with your mesh
**
skin rig to mesh
Joint Limits**
IKHandles and Locks
have fun and animate
** you can do the Joint Limits before skinning or afterwared it doesn't matter
In previous betas you were not able to add IKHandles till after the rig was skinned to the character, never tested it this way.
Rich
Hey look everyone - A secret workflow that needs to be followed or it wont work!! :D |
Post by Tiles // May 18, 2007, 9:07pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Thank you Team Caligari :)
Don't hesitate to ask whereever i am not specific enough. Sometimes i think that my reported stuff can be reproduced without any bigger advice. This example teached me again that i better always add a detailled description and if possible an example file to reproduce the problem.
Hey look everyone - A secret workflow that needs to be followed or it wont work!!
Heh, that was the whole point with trueSpace so far. I was and am always in trouble to explain somebody how things work i TS. Every advice contains one or two " ... as a workaround ... ". And that's not good for the customers nor Caligari. Customers gets scared away with workarounds. So i better post bugs and quirks when i stumble across it in the new core now. And i better post one time too often.
Forgive me when i sometimes add a nasty comment. It's just that i was more busy with making screenshots and reporting quirks this week than with doing something useful with TS. And i am even not at bughunting but just at my first rough runthrough ;)
About the secret workflow, well, i know too well what beta testing is, making games since years. You repeat things again and again. In a manner that you don't even think of doing it another way which should work too. Sometimes it needs somebody that touches things the first time to find the remaining quirks. And it is always surprising what kind of stuff comes up then. Oh how often have i thought, now i have catched all bugs. Just to get reported about the next little things ... :D |
Post by tomasb // May 18, 2007, 10:42pm
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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well, i'm not aware of any secret workflow :). This issue will show for any workflow as it is caused by undo causing IK update which solves pose to minimize errors on handles. When you move one handle to position that is unreachable and then move another handle so that first handle can have lower error, then calling IK solver will reduce error on all handles moving your pose back...
to workflow for bones: there is no prefered workflow (just some optimized paths); but you can get to some problems when for example adding SDS before skinning and then adjusting subdivision... (but you will get warning). So - you can freely check every combination :). |
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