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Good to see less Bug Reports!!
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Good to see less Bug Reports!! // Bugs
Post by prodigy // Feb 21, 2007, 7:23am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Yes.. im glad to see the huge decrese of bug reports.. That means the mayor part are reported!! :D |
Post by Tiles // Feb 21, 2007, 7:43am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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That just means i gave up ... |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 22, 2007, 6:58am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I noticed that about bugs in tS. They get reported and seem to go into some dark Public Relations abyss never to be heard of again.
There are bugs from a few versions ago that still exist that are of course irrelevant now.
Even if I found one in tS66, what would be the point of reporting it. tS66 has no technical support in the way of fixing bugs.
And since it's a closed Beta testing in version 7.1+, no one will ever hear of the bugs and since the NDA's prevent anyone from saying anything about what is fixed, changed or whatever...
What is the point about having a bug section where nothing ever gets resolved in the public eye or at least to the relief of those suffering the bugs? |
Post by prodigy // Feb 22, 2007, 7:14am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I told the same in other posts. we must resignate??? is the word?? to live with that.. :(
I think TS6 must be have bug support too, but im not the boss here.. I only made the head.. :p
And if you see on this forum "TS6 echos from the past" . with this title is like. TS6 must be in the trash.. and that is not a good impresion even for me TS7.11 user.. because if im not pay the next upgrade i must to live forever and ever with the actual bugs.. and that is not good at all..
Something good to fix on caligari corp. on the future..:cool: |
Post by Tiles // Feb 22, 2007, 8:04am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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They will not fix it. Have a look at the ts7 and some future thought thread.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1570&page=3&highlight=thoughts
Tom mentioned here that Pro Team members will get the bug fixes. Normal users will have to wait for the next version of TS though. And has to live with the initial bugs. Besides the point upgrades that at least fixes some of the bugs.
TS7.11 has for me, even after the point upgrades, too many quirks and bugs to work with. That's why i am back to TS 6.6. Here i know at least the workarounds. I have simply quit trying with TS7.1. And so no bug reports from my side for the current TS version. They wouldn't be adressed anyway. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 22, 2007, 8:07am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Nothing like caring for your customers.:rolleyes: |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 22, 2007, 8:35am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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They will not fix it. Have a look at the ts7 and some future thought thread.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=1570&page=3&highlight=thoughts
Tom mentioned here that Pro Team members will get the bug fixes. Normal users will have to wait for the next version of TS though. And has to live with the initial bugs. Besides the point upgrades that at least fixes some of the bugs.
TS7.11 has for me, even after the point upgrades, too many quirks and bugs to work with. That's why i am back to TS 6.6. Here i know at least the workarounds. I have simply quit trying with TS7.1. And so no bug reports from my side for the current TS version. They wouldn't be adressed anyway.
That link you provided hits the nail on the head. By the time you spend the 1600 dollars with tS7.x and Proteam, you may have well trotted over to another 3D application and plunked down a few extra dollars for a finished application.
I'm not sure what the love affair is with the LE (script stuff) is. By far, the majority of users could care less about scripting anything. I'm am beyond bewildered why so much time was put into it.
Anyway, getting off topic here. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 22, 2007, 9:31am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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By far, the majority of users could care less about scripting anything.
Im agree... Im one of that majority..
But i must say for some users its a very usesfull tool.. not for me at all.. :D |
Post by JPSofCA // Feb 22, 2007, 9:35am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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Back on topic, I'll have to add that I've barely touched tS7/7.1/7.11...I've had times where I got in the mindset of looking forward to doing some modeling and then I end up losing interest shortly thereafter.
I've been waiting for what seems like forever for that animation toolset I invested in initially. At this point how would I be able to assume that any bugs I could find haven't already been found? I have no idea what's been done in the past year, so it would be a waste of time to even bother. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 22, 2007, 10:20am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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.............................................
Well that is a good question...
But any company who want still having customers must make something to get their customers happy.. Bug Fix its the most important at my point of view..
But i cant wait crossing my arms and think caligari gonna find something wierd what i found... i prefer post and cross my fingers.. :o |
Post by kena // Feb 22, 2007, 2:03pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I don't do a lot of scrypting in link editor either, but I can see whre it would be fantastic for animation. I do use it for other things. If I have 30 boards and 60 nail heads (my latest project) and I want to change the textures on all of them, I just click on them in LE in order and I can be sure that I don't miss any item. |
Post by GraySho // Feb 22, 2007, 3:14pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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LE isn't wasted development time IMO, it just takes some time to evolve. It needs a lot of improvement on some ends, but it offers great power. It might not be that much of value for the regular truespacer, as most of the users are hobbiests and don't care too much about the internals and scripts. If Caligari want's to enter a wider market, it will sooner or later become more important. It's just that other basics are still far from finished, and that's one point that bugs most users I guess (me included). Time will tell where tS is going to. |
Post by JPSofCA // Feb 23, 2007, 12:51am
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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I think the LE is great! Some improvements would make it much more user-friendly.
The rest of the program needs more functionality with less crashing and fewer unpredictable results - likely to happen when the bridge disappears.
But for now, I just haven't the patience for 7.11. |
Post by TomG // Feb 23, 2007, 5:23am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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This has been said before - the LE did NOT have a lot of time spent on it. What had the time spent on it was the underlying data structures for 3D objects and scenes. The LE is an almost trivial result of that, it is simply a way of visualising those data structures and scenes.
So it's the underlying architecture that took the time, not the LE itself. The LE simply exposes that architecture in a way that a 3D view cannot - hence the name of "2D view" of the scene.
So, even if you don't like the LE, that means no wasted time - because the underlying data structures and way objects work allow all the new items that are being worked on. All the changes to the animation system, new functionality like improved SDS, improved point editing, improved poly reduction, hair, ability to integrate other render engines, all this arises from the architecture change, and everyone (not just scripters and LE users - and btw the LE can do much more than scripting!) get the benefit.
On bug reporting, we do look at the bugs posted here. During a major development, there is intensive testing from the beta team and we may not reply here, but those bugs still get forwarded into the process. Prodigy's bugs are in there for instance, and so on.
Do we reply on here? It's been said before, not always, not in the middle of a major development cycle. Replies on the bug forums are more likely when NOT in a major dev cycle, when we are doing just bug fixes, ie when we are not working on a big several-point release. That's a point when no major new functionality is being developed, and then the focus is on the bug reports from the public forums, and the replies go here then too.
Right now though we can't guarantee replies - we can move the bugs over to the beta forum, but can't guarantee a reply on here.
As for comparing it to bugs raised again and again for tS6.6 - well many of those could not be fixed due to fundamental problems with the data architecture - see point 1 above :) That's why there were so many "unanswered" bugs in earlier versions of tS, fixing them would take oh, let's say a complete re-write of the underlying code and data structures....
Which is why we did what we did, why we did that rewrite, because of the bugs and feature requests from the users. That was the motivation for tS7, users saying "We want better animation! What about caustics? Where is hair and fur! This doesn't work so well, it would be better if it worked this way!"
So your bug posts DO have an effect - all those "unanswered" bugs in tS6.6 are not in fact unanswered at all - they lead to tS7, they were the reason why we saw it was necessary to invest a huge amount of development time and make that big leap.
So do keep posting, and apologies if you feel your posts are unanswered. They have been instrumental in shaping everything that tS is today, and everything it will be in the future too!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by ProfessorKhaos // Feb 23, 2007, 2:39pm
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ProfessorKhaos
Total Posts: 622
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Almost everyone loves the trueSpace plugins, right?
Well, scripting gives more people the ability to write plugins without the overhead of compiling C code. Does that mean you all will take to it like a duck to water? Obviously not. Nevertheless, I'd be willing to bet that most of you will be able to use the new objects developed by those of us who enjoy doing our part for the hobby.
How many of you have used shaderlab shaders? Did you also write the shaderlab script? You don't have to write scripts to benefit from them.
People who paint their objects in solid colors or are content with simple UV mappings might see the UV editor as an unnecessary, but look at the power it brings when you want to take things to the "next level".
In many ways, the LE is as fundamental a step forward in tS7 as the UV editor was in previous versions of trueSpace. Just because you don't write scripts doesn't mean you won't find great value in it. Takes a little practice to learn it but there's much you can do with it once you know how to use it.
My advice? Try some green eggs and ham. You might be surprised.
Sorry folks, climbing off my soapbox now...
P.K. |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 23, 2007, 8:45pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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MMM...ham.
I guess I can understand why bug squashing has been curtailed on 6 after reading your explanation Tom.
Good to hear we are being listened to.
I can contribute nothing to this thread (since I'm not beta nor have 7 yet) except a little chuckle: |
Post by Tiles // Feb 23, 2007, 10:48pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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The problem with the bug reports for TS 7.11 is the following:
The player side is more a tech preview. Useless to work with. Not enough there to report bugs at.
The modeler side is the old and buggy TS 6.6 core with some small additions. And there will not be any bugfixing at it, right?
But that's the part you need to work with. The trouble part with the bugs. The part that finally got some more bugs to make it worthless for me to work with TS 7.11.
So while the modeler side is the buggy part that you need to work with, and it will never be fixed anyway, why report bugs at it?
Even when they would be fixed, the fixes would just appear in the next higher version. And not as bug fixes for the version you need it for. And that next higher version comes with other bugs then. So never a stable TS available. Since years. As long as i work with TS.
Plus from my experience, being told it must be my PC or Windows or drivers, or black magic, but never, never TS, why report bugs at all? |
Post by prodigy // Feb 24, 2007, 3:33am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Realy at the first moment when i saw the player side.. i said, " i dont like..
Because its diferent than the old Truespace.."
With time i found the player side is more stable than the model side.. Yes is unfinished but at the moment i never found a bug can restart the aplication NEVER.. thats a very good point.. Yes i report few bugs on the player side.. but no one that crash truespace..
Thats the best part..
Its true the old core must be fixed.. its like a need for many many old users.
But if you dont report bugs is because you dont care live with that..
I dont want to, and i report any wierd thing.. why?? because i need truespace be more stable.. I need because in 2 years truespace became from my best hobbye to be a new start on my life.. Realy..
I recomend any new bug be reported.. we must see forward not to another side of the road... |
Post by mrbones // May 16, 2007, 10:36pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Your right Prodigy, I think thats why I wear these shades now.:cool:
Cheers
But if you dont report bugs is because you dont care live with that..
I dont want to, and i report any wierd thing.. why?? because i need truespace be more stable.. I need because in 2 years truespace became from my best hobbye to be a new start on my life.. Realy..
I recomend any new bug be reported.. we must see forward not to another side of the road... |
Post by prodigy // May 19, 2007, 9:48am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Cheers Mr. Bones ;)
Your right Prodigy, I think thats why I wear these shades now.:cool:
Cheers |
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