This could become very funny...

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This could become very funny... // truePlay

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Post by 3dvisuals dude // Apr 19, 2007, 9:45pm

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Hi folks,

I'm currently developing a true-Place-type structure I call The Loft (see the thread in the WIPs area for updated images) which will hopefully become a new Audio Video Lounge for us all to use in many different ways.

One of those ways, for instance, would be for trueSpace musicians to (one fine day) pipe live music (or ideally live "jam sessions") over the loudspeakers to a group of vistors below who are there for the event.

My question to you all (and what could become very funny) is this...

...can we script Avatars to dance?


:D

-3dvisuals dude

Post by razzaq1 // May 3, 2007, 3:16am

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Check out http://www.ninjam.com/

Maybe its functionality can be incorporated in some way.

Run the app, and have a panel access the servers!

Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 3, 2007, 9:49am

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Check out http://www.ninjam.com/
Maybe its functionality can be incorporated in some way.
Run the app, and have a panel access the servers!

Hello Razzaq1, and thank you for the suggestion.

I had just learned about the existence of Ninjam (and also Reaper which works elegantly with Ninjam) via a thread here in the Collaboration area of the forums regarding trueSpace Musicians and their music. I was hoping at the time that a means to make this possible existed since I was already building a truePlace-type structure which would be perfect for incorporating that capability.

The truePlace-type structure is quite elaborate and is finished now and posted here at the forums in the following thread:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=2718
It is a proposal for a new Audio Video Lounge and Park with a great many unprecedented features, among those is an audio panel dedicated specifically for use in managing Ninjam and Reaper sessions from within a truePlace for a special event or regularly scheduled jam session.

Apparently suggesting such things here is largely a waste of effort judging from the utter lack of response to what was a rather large modeling effort, but fortunately I've been around long enough to know where excellent markets for such things do in fact exist.;)

Excellent suggestion though and thank you for the thought... sometimes our thoughts tend to be ahead of the times my friend.;)

Best wishes,

- 3dvisuals dude

Post by razzaq1 // May 5, 2007, 12:11am

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You're welcome!


So how's it work....

Do you have to sit around till the big 'C' decides that The Loft is a good idea, and then they make it available to truePlay visitors, or are they angling for you to buy a server (and probably charge admission!)


I think that what you have created is the best concept space made to date.


Let's hope that they a) adopt it and b) let you remain in creative control re. expansion.


Kudos......Mucho Kudos!


Razzaq1 :banana: :banana: :banana:

Post by spacekdet // May 5, 2007, 8:33am

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I'm not a musician.

In your screenshots I didn't see any buckets for me to carry my tune around in so I thought I'd hang back and see if anyone else ...uh...jumped on the bandwagon. You'd think after looking at the 'Show your room' thread and seeing all the thousands of dollars/pounds/marks/ worth of musical equipment on prominent display that there'd be more than just a couple of people interested.

It's an interesting project, and I'd visit for sure when it goes live. If you'd have to purchase trueServe to run the thing, well, that's a whole other league. It's price tag is outside the boundaries of starving artists and musicians. Your jamSpace would certainly more interesting to visit than say, the empty room now used for the Thursday Night Chat. Even if I can't carry a tune, that doesn't mean I can't tap my toe and fling around a glow stick.
Free Bird! WhooHoo!!!

Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 6, 2007, 2:52am

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You're welcome!

So how's it work....
Do you have to sit around till the big 'C' decides that The Loft is a good idea, and then they make it available to truePlay visitors, or are they angling for you to buy a server (and probably charge admission!)

I think that what you have created is the best concept space made to date.

Let's hope that they a) adopt it and b) let you remain in creative control re. expansion.

Kudos......Mucho Kudos!

Razzaq1 :banana: :banana: :banana:

Hahahaha... thanks Razzaq1,

I'm sure if the big 'C' had decided to go for the free offer they already would have by now, but it's no big deal... now I can buy a server, modify the place (which is still well within related filesize specs) for a particular customer and sell both the space and that server to that host. Oh well.:D

As for the big 'C' "angling" to sell me a server, no, they've been silent about their server sales for the most part in general and haven't mentioned that to me yet, but whether they do or not I already intend to get one for myself soon and sell several additional ones to related clients this year. I would never charge admission to one though, and would advise clients that they also should not, but as for the sale of advertising within these servers via the creation of structures within them for additional clients of either myself or the hosts, that's another story... they would get charged of course.;)

Thanks for the kind words, and best wishes,

- 3dvisuals dude

Post by 3dvisuals dude // May 6, 2007, 3:07am

3dvisuals dude
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I'm not a musician.

In your screenshots I didn't see any buckets for me to carry my tune around in so I thought I'd hang back and see if anyone else ...uh...jumped on the bandwagon. You'd think after looking at the 'Show your room' thread and seeing all the thousands of dollars/pounds/marks/ worth of musical equipment on prominent display that there'd be more than just a couple of people interested.

It's an interesting project, and I'd visit for sure when it goes live. If you'd have to purchase trueServe to run the thing, well, that's a whole other league. It's price tag is outside the boundaries of starving artists and musicians. Your jamSpace would certainly more interesting to visit than say, the empty room now used for the Thursday Night Chat. Even if I can't carry a tune, that doesn't mean I can't tap my toe and fling around a glow stick.
Free Bird! WhooHoo!!!



"Free Bird?" (Thank God for mute buttons!);)

As for carrying your tune(s) around there's a device for piping the upper Loft music into the Park below, but since the capacity (already invented by trueBlue I believe) to "carry" items within truePlaces via just truePlay hasn't yet been implemented there, that fact prevented me from designing portables for use there.

That same issue will probably be resolved soon though given that so many new people (including myself) will have TS7.5 scripting capabilities now, and being a programmer already I have several ideas on new scripts including some modifications to that one. Great days are coming for us all now.;)

I was there early last Thursday night btw, but I got too bored in there to wait around. Maybe next time.

- 3dvisuals dude

Post by butterpaw // Sep 6, 2007, 6:18am

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Being a musician/composer, I just had to read and answer this thread...

In answer to the original question 'can avatars be scripted to dance?' Yes they can! Cyan has done that with the avatars in Myst Online Uru Live (generally known as Uru).

Their second attempt at a dance script was even better than the first, and players have dance parties (in addition to regular game play) piping in music.. (both fun and funny) ^_^

Post by 3dvisuals dude // Sep 6, 2007, 10:09am

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Being a musician/composer, I just had to read and answer this thread...

In answer to the original question 'can avatars be scripted to dance?' Yes they can! Cyan has done that with the avatars in Myst Online Uru Live (generally known as Uru).

Their second attempt at a dance script was even better than the first, and players have dance parties (in addition to regular game play) piping in music.. (both fun and funny) ^_^

Thanks for popping in here on this Butterpaw!

Is "Cyan" at Uru the same person as "Cayenne" here? If so I wasn't aware that he was into Myst/ Uru, but that's great!

I used to explore Myst and Uru myself back in the days, but never online. How do you access it? Is it accessable via truePlay or is it a non-trueServe hosted environment?

- Mark / 3dvisuals dude

Post by butterpaw // Sep 6, 2007, 12:51pm

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Oh! I'm so sorry, 3dvisuals dude, I did not mean to be cryptic!

Cyan (http://www.cyanworlds.com/products/index.php) is the company that made the Myst series of games PC games, and Uru (http://www.gametap.com/home/myst/index.html)which is closely related but is an online game, receiving its online hosting from GameTap. I would say that if it were not for Cyan, and their Myst games and Uru online, I would probably never have begun 3D Modeling or have reached the point of choosing truesSpace as my modeling software.

I'm an artist (with a particular leaning toward sculpture) and also a musician/composer. I've been using PaintShop Pro and Painter 9.5 for art, and Finale and FL Studio Pro for music. - And, I've spent a couple of years in indy game development, working on a game idea that I started with a friend. (Having to attend to his own rapidly growing business,he's taken a backseat in gamedev, but does keep a protective eye on the project) Meanwhile I continue, doing the creative director thing - meaning I'm chief cook and bottle-washer, lol. It is planned as a realtime 3D adventure game (Myst genre). Don't know if the game will ever make it to market, but I truly enjoy concentrating on the process, and trying to get it built. (and in the meantime I can learn to be a good 3D modeler too...) ;)

I think trueSpace 7.5,which I've just purchased, is the most elegantly designed (and stable!) 3D modeling software I've encountered, and I've been looking for a while!. I've done a little bit of modeling, using Vue5 Infinite, Blender, Poser6, Blacksmith 3D, and 3dCanvas Pro. They weren't quite what I was after, although they do have their uses. I also have 3D Game Studio Commercial (A7 engine) which is a good game editor/engine for my game. If Caligari extends development of the gamePak plugin to support the A7 engine, I will be very interested!

So, back to topic, I think truePlay is a wonderful idea, and its functional aspects seem in many ways similar to the functionality of Uru... but on a different scale and for different purposes. I really want to join in with trueSpace... just as a visitor and learner to start :banana:

I have some questions on that, so I'll start another topic for that, as I think I've stretched this thread as far out of shape as it can go) :D

----

zomg! I've just read this over - bet you weren't expecting that for a reply! :p

Post by 3dvisuals dude // Sep 7, 2007, 4:12pm

3dvisuals dude
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Oh! I'm so sorry, 3dvisuals dude, I did not mean to be cryptic!

Cyan (http://www.cyanworlds.com/products/index.php) is the company that made the Myst series of games PC games, and Uru (http://www.gametap.com/home/myst/index.html)which is closely related but is an online game, receiving its online hosting from GameTap. I would say that if it were not for Cyan, and their Myst games and Uru online, I would probably never have begun 3D Modeling or have reached the point of choosing truesSpace as my modeling software.

I'm an artist (with a particular leaning toward sculpture) and also a musician/composer. I've been using PaintShop Pro and Painter 9.5 for art, and Finale and FL Studio Pro for music. - And, I've spent a couple of years in indy game development, working on a game idea that I started with a friend. (Having to attend to his own rapidly growing business,he's taken a backseat in gamedev, but does keep a protective eye on the project) Meanwhile I continue, doing the creative director thing - meaning I'm chief cook and bottle-washer, lol. It is planned as a realtime 3D adventure game (Myst genre). Don't know if the game will ever make it to market, but I truly enjoy concentrating on the process, and trying to get it built. (and in the meantime I can learn to be a good 3D modeler too...) ;)

I think trueSpace 7.5,which I've just purchased, is the most elegantly designed (and stable!) 3D modeling software I've encountered, and I've been looking for a while!. I've done a little bit of modeling, using Vue5 Infinite, Blender, Poser6, Blacksmith 3D, and 3dCanvas Pro. They weren't quite what I was after, although they do have their uses. I also have 3D Game Studio Commercial (A7 engine) which is a good game editor/engine for my game. If Caligari extends development of the gamePak plugin to support the A7 engine, I will be very interested!

So, back to topic, I think truePlay is a wonderful idea, and its functional aspects seem in many ways similar to the functionality of Uru... but on a different scale and for different purposes. I really want to join in with trueSpace... just as a visitor and learner to start :banana:
I have some questions on that, so I'll start another topic for that, as I think I've stretched this thread as far out of shape as it can go) :D

zomg! I've just read this over - bet you weren't expecting that for a reply! :p

Wow!:)

Thanks for the links and info Butterpaw, very helpful and useful to me indeed.

I can see you and I are going to have some clearly converging interests and related development interactions here in the months ahead and I look forward to that a great deal.

I'm especially interested in the integrated development of several aspects of what you have referred to above, namely sculpture, immersive interactive environments, and music. I have a few ideas as you may imagine already on ways to incorporate some of these elements together for us all here, and I'm very interested in your thoughts and possible participation in relation to such development work as an ongoing community endeavor here. Your background and style here appear already to me to be potentially key ingredients in the startup of such a collaborative community effort, so while you may feel your trueSpace skills are not ready for such a task I can assure you the other skills you could clearly bring to the table in such an effort would prove invaluable indeed for us all. If this may be of interest to you please PM me here on it when you have a chance and let's explore the potentials.

Thanks again for the links too!;)

- 3dvisuals dude

Post by butterpaw // Sep 11, 2007, 11:46pm

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Yes of course I'll be replying... only just spotted this.. had a string of 'weird' days :D

Post by notejam // Dec 26, 2007, 7:57am

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Total Posts: 191
I am one more midi musician here, and this scripting of sculpture to trigger midi seems neat to me. It might be neat to have different midi notes trigger things too, like lil blobs that fly up into the air, and then change shape and color in time to the music, and allow users to play it from their own keyboard.

(could use the computers keys for this, so we do not have to impliment call back for midi input)


I do not know anything about scripting, other than a bit of javascript web page development I did. What is the prefered scripting language for truespace? I want one that would allow the most options. Can C or C++ or Visual Basic be used?


Also wonder if there is any option to limit the change of view when movign the mouse? I keep moving it too far and have the world turn upside down, and spend most of my time just trying to get the world back level rather than move around.


I wish we could set an optional change of view limit, of maybe 15 to 20 degrees, or maybe just move the mouse as high as we want to view, anc click to set a limit to not move the view past that, and then go the other direction and set the limit, and then these limits would be our user prefrence, but we could adjust and change them any time we wanted.


I have connected with the shared space directly from truespace 7.5 and that works much better for me than trueplay, no worlds turning upside down on me, lol.

I could rework scenes after I logged off, too, that was really neat. Maybe we could do this with some midi things, and each edit it and add something to it.

Post by 3dvisuals dude // Dec 26, 2007, 11:15am

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I am one more midi musician here, and this scripting of sculpture to trigger midi seems neat to me. It might be neat to have different midi notes trigger things too, like lil blobs that fly up into the air, and then change shape and color in time to the music, and allow users to play it from their own keyboard.
(could use the computers keys for this, so we do not have to impliment call back for midi input)

I do not know anything about scripting, other than a bit of javascript web page development I did. What is the prefered scripting language for truespace? I want one that would allow the most options. Can C or C++ or Visual Basic be used?

I could rework scenes after I logged off, too, that was really neat. Maybe we could do this with some midi things, and each edit it and add something to it.

Hi Notejam and welcome to the forums here.:)

I see from 2 other posts of yours here that you have already begun to engage some very talented folks here who will be far more capable of helping you with midi-related scripting than I can, so you are off to a great start in the right directions for sure.

In trueSpace7.xx the scripting utilized natively can be any combination of jscript (Microsoft Javascript) and/or vbscript. As such, you can use vbscript for example to access your own dlls which you have created and there is also a script recorder in two flavors built right into trueSpace to translate activities which occur in the Workspace to recorded script equivalents, which is a very handy and time saving feature.

As for reworking scenes after logging off, you can also actually save any online scene to your hard drive while you are online and examine them all offline at your leasure, most of us here in fact do that and it is a great way to get a feel for trueSpace scripting too by going inside the Link Editor and Script Editor to see how others achieved various things with their scripts.

It is also possible to create "3D Immersive Desktop" scenes (using trueSpace7.xx to build them and script them) which can be used as a desktop shell alternative explorable in FPN (First Person Navigation mode) through truePlay (which is free), and when you create your own scenes in this way with scripted object links inside them you can click objects to open any file, program, webpage, or truePlace portal as well, in addition to making music-enabled scripted objects and interactive scripted animations within it.

Here's a couple of related threads to give you a glimpse of that aspect, and between this and the other folks you have already begun to engage in other threads here about midi scripting you should be off to some cool new developments.:)

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4082 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4082)

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4459 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4459)

Welcome aboard!

- 3dvisuals dude

Post by notejam // Dec 31, 2007, 5:51pm

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Total Posts: 191
Perhaps you might import your 3d worlds into another server other than true server? I think there are some free or low cost ones around, and I know they allow better avatars than truespace. They even allow animating the avatars picture. I do not like the true space ball and top hat avatar, its about time somebody does something to improve true space avatar appearance.


Some of these allow something sort of like truespace scripting, but think they use c language.


Maybe one of these 3d vrml or mud servers is free? Think there are some free ones around because some of this runs on linux systems. Mud=multi user dungeon

Post by Délé // Dec 31, 2007, 6:12pm

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Nice to meet you notejam and good to have another interested in scripting on the team. :) A lot of us around here are musicians and have been interested in midi for some time too. I can't wait until it's implemented either by a user or Caligari themselves. Either way, I'm sure it will happen at some point. There are a lot of procedural possibilities with midi for sure. Much more then just music.


As for the avatars, fret not. Roman mentioned that they are planning much better, fully articulated avatars for truePlay 2.0. TruePlay is still pretty young yet. It's true potential has yet to been tapped into IMO. I'm sure there is much more to come. :)


Roman's Captains Blog gives some good hints into things to come. If you haven't given it a read yet check it out:

http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=893&page=4


Here's a quote from the Captains Blog about truePlay 2.0:

truePlay2.0 will introduce fully articulated, customizable real time user avatars built on top of truespace7.5 character architecture. It will add animated facial expressions, game quality collision, improved real time DX9 engine, fully distributed physics, second generation 3D positional speech and sound as well as content server which will provide a user repository for customer avatars and private shared spaces.
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