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TS7 for games/physics discussion
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TS7 for games/physics discussion // Interactive Artwork
Post by Colfax // Mar 7, 2006, 11:54pm
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Colfax
Total Posts: 49
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My basic question is: To what extent can TrueSpace7 function as a videogame engine?
Of course TrueSpace and GameSpace have been fine tools for authoring game content. but with the inclusion of a directX9 based realtime view in TS7, the potential is there to go from design to play testing all within the same program.
I have a very limited understanding of exactly how TS7's Link Editor works and how robust it truly is. The developments I'm seeing in these threads are really quite exciting though. It looks like there is a huge amount of potential for customization in TS7.
I have begun toying around with using the physics engine, and while I've been able to achieve pretty good results by turning the timestep up and tweaking other variables, I feel I'm a long way from knowing how to get fast, reliable, and solid results.
The ideas I want to look at in greater depth are:
1. Is the current TS7 physics engine capable of performing for games?
Most games use simplified physics calculated from simplified geometry for each model (like bounding boxes). The physengine in TS7 seems pretty robust, and was probably designed more with proper physics simulation in mind, making it perhaps too complex for consistent realtime gameplay.
2. Could the physics engine be swapped out with a different engine?
Is the physengine of TS7 hard coded, or does it have a degree of modularity? Could a simpler engine be 'plugged-in' in it's place in the Link Editor?
3. Can TruePlay's interface and mode of interaction be determined by the author, or does it always have the handy TS7 widget at the bottom right?
While I'm at it, could TrueSpace or TruePlay support a joystick or gamepad?
So anyone out there have any thoughts on this? |
Post by splinters // Mar 8, 2006, 1:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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For the Gallery runner up prize this month I chose a book which used truespace, 3D studio Max and Photoshop (as well as the torque engine) to make a game. With Ts7 you would not really need to use 3D Max as part of the workflow now.
This is it;
2D Artwork and 3D Modeling for Game Artists (Andre Lamothe)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931841330/ref=si_1_1/026-2773965-8900468
Not a bad read really even though I am not into games. I put it in my Design library for those students that are. Maybe it would be suitable for what you are looking at doing. As for the joystick input, this was confirmed as being viable quite a while ago but I never saw any use of it.....yet... |
Post by Délé // Mar 8, 2006, 5:12am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I know that you can create behaviors between objects, so in theory I would think fairly decent game interaction could take place. I guess it will take a few pioneers to push it and see how far it will go. :) |
Post by e-graffiti // Mar 8, 2006, 7:54am
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e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
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For the Gallery runner up prize this month I chose a book which used truespace, 3D studio Max and Photoshop (as well as the torque engine) to make a game. With Ts7 you would not really need to use 3D Max as part of the workflow now.
This is it;
2D Artwork and 3D Modeling for Game Artists (Andre Lamothe)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1931841330/ref=si_1_1/026-2773965-8900468
Not a bad read really even though I am not into games. I put it in my Design library for those students that are. Maybe it would be suitable for what you are looking at doing. As for the joystick input, this was confirmed as being viable quite a while ago but I never saw any use of it.....yet...
Splinters that book you mentioned looks like a good book to have in my TS book collection. It is good to see TS being used as part of a game creation process AND the book is biased toward TS :jumpy: so it is a must have! I plan to get that book soon. |
Post by Colfax // Mar 9, 2006, 11:46am
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Colfax
Total Posts: 49
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Thanks for the feedback so far guys. I'm already very familiar with the various aspects of authoring content for games, as I've been one of those geeks that likes to try and Mod every PC game I've played since the first Doom.
Splinters, that looks like an informative book, but I'm not interested in TS7 taking the need for 3d Studio max out of the workflow. I'm interested in TS7 or TruePlay taking the need for the game engine (in your case, Torque) out of the workflow.
For those of you who haven't tried Blender 2.41 yet (it's free), it has a game engine built into it along with a set of downloadable game engine demos. Blender itself uses OpenGL2.0 instead of DirectX9, so I assume the game engine does as well (Doom3 also uses OpenGL2.0).
One of the blender demos has a ball roll down a ramp and into a stack of boxes. It performs smoothly every time, just like a game should, but I noticed the results were different every time I started the game engine. That is, the ball would knock the boxes down differently every time I ran it.
The physics simulations run on a stack of boxes in TS7 give me the same results every time (until I switch a variable), but also don't seem capable of running as smoothly as blender does albeit with it's more unpredictable results.
Also in terms of accuracy, if you knock down a stack of boxes in TS7, there seems to always be one or two collision 'errors' where a box goes partially into the floor or into another box. Some objects seem to bounce and spin one or two more times in mid-air than they realistically would before landing again. And almost every object, once it lands, seems to keep sliding on the ground in the direction it is heading, almost as if the ground were some kind of super smooth ice surface.
I have a feeling these might be correctable problems. |
Post by tomasb // Mar 9, 2006, 12:31pm
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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There were some bugs in physics collisions & solver that were fixed and you will get the fix with 7.02 update.
Physics will further be optimized and you will be able to choose collision approximation for bodies, so performance will get much better. |
Post by Colfax // Mar 9, 2006, 10:38pm
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Colfax
Total Posts: 49
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Well this is certainly very good news. I look forward to the next update of TS7. In the meantime, it's occured to me that a simple billiards/pool table might be a good kind of basic scene to begin expermenting with in regards to physics. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 9, 2006, 11:22pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I think I remember a way I used in basic type language programming about collisions and such.
One important element concepts was to define the friction and gravity of the colliding objects.
I'm not a tS guru by any means, but I do recall seeing a way of doing that somewhere in their notes. If they have a python scripter available it may just be a matter of setting prescribed collision matters for each object or objects connected to objects; i.e. a bullet from from a held gun. (combo of light, collision entry, collison path and collision impact.)
Since, as I understand they have the recorder for script, it may just be a matter of staging the props and animating the script to produce a game result.
Sorry, I feeling especially windy today, playing around with 3D paint apps and what a relief they are from (ugh) UV mappers. :) |
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