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you can't make movies in workspace? only in model?
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you can't make movies in workspace? only in model? // New Users
Post by nealiosnoise // Jan 28, 2009, 7:52am
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nealiosnoise
Total Posts: 77
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i got this program and here is what i think i know about it. . . . . . .
the workspace is the new version of truespace, but it also comes with model, which is an older version of truespace,
you can make animations, pics and movies with the modeling side cause of the renderer's LightWorks and VLight,
but workspace only can make pics, unless you buy a offline renderer, different people say its faster, some say its slower, ?..
why is Truespace 7 setup like this? why not let the workspace wide be able to make movies too??
i had some experience with the 3d program 3ds Max 7, and now im happy with this FREE great find, truespace 7, i want to make the best out of this free software before thinkin of buying a renderer to make movies.
i know about the bridge, but i dont want to suck up resources. so i just stay on the model side alot.
i can render out pictures of an animation i do from the workspace side, whats a good fast program i could use
to lay these pics into and make a movie? do people do that?
i know i could do it with Artoonix, but whats the best way/program with the best results??
Thats my beef, but not the last ! ! !! ! ! ! reply ifya please.
DELL XPS core 2 2.6 gigs. 256mb card. |
Post by jrboddie // Jan 28, 2009, 8:24am
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jrboddie
Total Posts: 91
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The Workspace side is a great place to make animations. The workspace has the real-time D3D render which will be much faster than the renderers on the model side (or the no longer available VRay renderer in the workspace).
This approach will generate a sequence of frames that you can assemble into a movie format using VirtualDub (free) or other program. (Sony Vegas is my preference at the moment.) |
Post by TomG // Jan 28, 2009, 8:28am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Reasons are pretty simple - the old code was limited in where it could go, so we had to throw it out and start afresh with entirely new code.
In doing that, it would be impossible to duplicate 20 years worth of functionality and meet any sort of release date. So the choice was - new code only, and you lose a lot of the tools you were familiar with, plus lose all the plug-ins you've collected over the years (if you are a tS user). Or the bridge, embedding tS6.6 as a "giant plugin" and so giving some way to use all the old functionality when needed, and retaining compatibility with your plugins.
We chose the second. It brings with it some issues too of course such as requiring extra resources but at least it retains the choice of which toolset you want to use.
You can render offline from workspace - simply do your work in workspace and swap to Model side to render. This means you benefit from all the new controls and tools and stability, and just swap to the older side for rendering. There's also the new RenderLWFromWorkspace plugin which lets you click a render button in workspace without swapping to Model side. You do need the bridge on of course.
You can also make movies with the workspace side - the real-time render to file will render animation sequences, and stunningly fast too. An animation that takes hours to render offline could render in minutes real-time. This is certainly ideal for drafts even if you dont want to use it for finals, a real time saver (I guess that's a pun - "a real time-saver" and a "real-time saver"!).
Since its recommended to use an offline to render to separate image files and combine, using the real-time render to file in this way is no different :) Yes people certainly stitch those together, as I say its recommended for offline rendering too. Virtuadub is a frequently used program for this purpose, or VideoMach.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Tiles // Jan 28, 2009, 8:29am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Well. There is a way to render the Workspace realtime to file. Means you can in fact make movies with Workspace. Just a bit hidden unfortunately in the smallest toolbar. See picture :)
Then have a look in the Garage section of this forum. There is a plugin to render with Lightworks from Workspace afaik.
And then there are some guys working at a solution to plug the Yaffray render engine to the Workspace. Just a matter of time until this one appears :) |
Post by nealiosnoise // Jan 28, 2009, 9:08am
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nealiosnoise
Total Posts: 77
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in making a movie on the workspace side, you say i go to the
render to file, and thats where i can make a movie??
i notice the Save settings button is dead..... doesnt do anything for some reason. . .. .
all the presets are for video NTSC, Pal etc..., but the save as file formats are all picture formats. so every time i render it comes out a picture,
A DAMN PICTURE! ! ! !!... but a pretty picture. .
im looking up vurtualdub.....
and I must fined that plugin yo talkin about Tiles.!!! !!!! so does it render all the postprocesses of workspace too?? bloom glow supersampling??!! ! !!!
why is it recommended for an offline renderer? |
Post by TomG // Jan 28, 2009, 9:27am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Recommended for a variety of reasons, mostly this - after 11 hours and 59 minutes on the last frame, the power goes out. If you are rendering direct to AVI, the AVI is corrupt and unplayable, and you must restart your render from the beginning and do all 11 hours and 59 minutes again.
If you are rendering to separate frames, only the last frame is corrupted. Simply take the minute to re-render that frame, and no need to do the previous 11 hours and 59 minutes.
It can also help when you decide that frames 670 to 720 should be re-rendered. You can just redo those as images into the sequence, and presto its done! No need to re-render the whole AVI, or no complex combining AVIs together in a third party app.
Also, it lets you decide your codec settings at the end. If you apply the codec in tS at render time, then decide its too much compression (or not enough), then its back to a 12 hour re-render to get the new version. If you went to single frames (in a non-compressed format like PNG of course) then you can apply the codec in the video app, decide to change it, and it will take only a fraction of the time to re-encode the image files into a movie.
So whether you do real-time or not, render to separate image files :)
To get the image sequence, you first need to have an animation set up in workspace. You will get just one image by default, but you need to check "Save animation from frame" and then set the two values of start and end frame. Now when you render, tS will step through the animation and write one image to disk for each frame of the animation, rather than just one single image.
HTH!
Tom
PS - you get bloom, supersampling etc only if you render from the real-time engine. If you render to the offline engine, using the workspace plugin or direct from the Model side, you will not get those. They are settings for the real-time engine only, and not for Lightworks. But you will indeed get them using workspace Render To File. |
Post by Tiles // Jan 28, 2009, 9:29am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Err, you misunderstand me. That is where you can RENDER your movie to file without the need to buy an offline renderer :)
Making a movie is another task. It is Your task as the artist. That is modeling, texturing, rigging, animation, a story, plus all the small things you need to make a movie too like sound FX, music, a storyboard and and and, and as many years as you want to invest to finish your little project ... the make my movie button does not exist ;)
And yes, it renders all realtime stuff to file. Including bloom, supersampling, AA. You get what you see in the Workspace ...
Hmm, honestly your last posting is a bit confusing. Settings tab is dead? Plugin i talk about? Why is what recommend for what? What exactly are your problems? |
Post by nealiosnoise // Jan 28, 2009, 9:50am
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nealiosnoise
Total Posts: 77
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yes my save settings button, in the "render to file" button in workspace is dead... it wont act, bring up anything...
Tiles, you typed "There is a plugin to render with Lightworks from Workspace afaik."
thats the plugin im'a talkin about. . .
if i was to render with compression, which one do i choose?? its seems i end up fighting over quality to compatibility, |
Post by Tiles // Jan 28, 2009, 10:11am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Ah, now i see. You mean the one that tells you you need an offline renderer when you click it, right? That one is not dead. That one is the one that becomes active when you install VRay for trueSpace. Well, you are somehow right, it is dead now. Because you cannot purchase Vray for trueSpace anymore :)
The Lightworks from Workspace plugin can be found here:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=7633
if i was to render with compression, which one do i choose?? its seems i end up fighting over quality to compatibility,
Don't compress. Render uncompressed if even possible. Render the sequence as TGA pictures for example.
You may need to edit your movie afterwards. Like adding sound or music. And that one means your software with which you edit the movie needs to decode the movie, and later encode it again. Which means you loose quality because the decoded material has already lost quality. And a fresh encoding adds even more to that. But you don't loose quality with pictures. Here you have the original quality in all cases :)
In the rare cases where i personally would render directly with a codec i would use the same codec i would use to encode the final movie, like XVid or WMV. But this cases are zero nowadays. I highly recommend to render pictures to file, then union them to a movie using Virtualdub or a Videocut software :) |
Post by TomG // Jan 28, 2009, 10:11am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Answered on the plugin Tiles mentioned - its a way to call the Lightworks engine from the workspace, so does not use bloom etc, as these are features of the real-time render engine.
You won't need to "save settings" in your render dialog, that just preserves the render dialog set up. It won't bring up anything, it simply takes all the values in the dialog and saves them in the dialog so when you next open it all the settings are preserved (eg render size etc). Has nothing to do with actually rendering though! Just click the Render button for that.
For now, just go ahead and render using the Render button :) As noted for animations, check the box that asks tS to render an animation rather than one frame.
Not sure on your compression question. If rendering to image files, use non-compressed formats (PNG, TGA, or BMP - though BMP has no compression so is huge; PNG is my recommendation). If you are talking about video compression, that is a huge area and one that you'll have to explore to see what best meets your needs! There is DivX and XVid for AVI format (but no streaming, and settings may be complex, and may need a purchased license)l there is WMV; there is Lagarith. Those would be my recommended ones. Others like Cinepak etc I don't have much luck with.
However, it is a huge issue, and depends on how important file size is versus quality, and depends on how much movement you have between frames etc. If that is what you want to explore, I'd start a separate thread about it as I am sure lots of folks have lots of different advice on what video codecs and settings to use.
If it is not your question, you'll need to ask it again in a different way :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by nealiosnoise // Jan 28, 2009, 10:36am
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nealiosnoise
Total Posts: 77
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will the next version of Truespace be free?
im interested in truespace because i have ideas in my head that just need to be out there. i do little bits of video and music hear and there.
yal can check out my music video on youtube " Hex in my Head?!" i made all the pics with MS Paint, and ran the pics through Artoonix program, and i didnt know anything about "computering", i was just driven to get this idea out of my head. i also do a little work with Blambo Entertainment, when i had a go with 3ds Max 7 for windows XP, now i have vista platform. 3ds max 7 was good and was my 1st introduction in 3D animation. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jan 28, 2009, 8:13pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I recommend using Sony Vegas for sequencing your movies from the image files. It's a very powerful and easy to use editing platform for the price:
http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/products/vegasfamily.asp
PNG format is a "lossless compression format" and is fine for saving out your stills.
WMV format uses a very good and broadly compatible codec (for Windows systems), but you also may want to look into using an h264 codec for encoding your final videos if you are working with HD resolutions:
http://www.x264.nl/
For Windows systems one of the best codec packs is FFDShow:
http://ffdshow-tryout.sourceforge.net/
Looks like they are even adding some BlueRay specific codecs now and h264 support is already built in. |
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