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How to apply SCALE to a scene?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
How to apply SCALE to a scene? // New Users
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 17, 2009, 7:34am
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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My first post here. Hey, all!
TrueSpace 2.0 sat on my shelf for YEARS. I bought a 760-page "Bible' to go with it, and was quickly, totally overwhelmed... Now I have a real need for basic 3D--to help me design furniture--and came to the website to see about "upgrading".
YOW! 7.6 for FREE is "a little better deal" than I had expected. :banana:
FNG Q 1:
I imported a very simple object from CorelDRAW X3 (an exported EPS v1) consisting of two filled rectangles. How do I tell tS7.6 to "see" them as a particular size - by imposing a particular scale? For example, Corel saw them as 2D rectangles, each measuring 6" x 12". How do I get tS to dimension them the same way?
I'll try to keep my questions just short of obtuse, but there appears to be no searchable manual - except via PDF search word. And the PDF Help file is broken into multiple PDF docs, so I'm pretty much SOL for finding my own answers.
Please bear in mind that I'm posting in the New Users forum, cuz I R 1 :D
Thanks |
Post by Emmanuel // Jan 17, 2009, 9:10am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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If you work in Modeler size, you must use a Chikara Kojima plugin called SizeEx. |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 17, 2009, 11:21am
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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Thanks a lot for your comments and the screen capture.
I'm surprised to learn that a simple function like applying/adjusting scale is not integral to the program.
I searched these forums for Kujima, based on your comments - but found no information on how/where to get the plugin you mentioned. Are they free, or must they be purchased?
Thanks
EDITED: I went out to Google and see that CK has a bundle for $20, or used to. Looks like it's kinda dried up, maybe due to the MS purchase. |
Post by Emmanuel // Jan 17, 2009, 12:31pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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I'm surprised to learn that a simple function like applying/adjusting scale is not integral to the program.
Yep, that's the now well known do_it_yourself trueSpace philosophy ;)
Don't worry, I will upload that must-have plugin on the archive tSX page tomorrow.
Oh, and there will be an other suprise on this page... Check the forum tomorrow morning ! |
Post by rjeff // Jan 17, 2009, 5:25pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Emmanual can't you just use the info panel and set the scale using that? It has inches/feet/meeters all the things you need. |
Post by spacekdet // Jan 17, 2009, 5:47pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Here's a visual that might help.
17693 |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jan 17, 2009, 5:50pm
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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You can just use the built in Info Panel in Model side.
workspace, however, is a different story. It just has units. No specification as to what they are, you decide, but that's all it has, you can't change them, It has the Scale & BB size settings in the info box (which just helps to confuse the issue further) but that's it.
To put it even simpler - you can't. |
Post by Emmanuel // Jan 17, 2009, 11:06pm
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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You can also scale up/down the whole object manually using the Scale tool if you hold down the 2 mouse buttons and drag the mouse left-right or up-down.
In WorkSpace, for some reason, only the mouse drag up-down make effect though.
SizeEx, the plugin mentioned above is now ready for download on the tSX archive page (http://emmanuel.asset.free.fr/tsxarchive/index.htm) :) |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 18, 2009, 8:04am
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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...that's the now well known do_it_yourself trueSpace philosophy ;)...I will upload that must-have plugin on the archive tSX page tomorrow. Oh, and there will be an other suprise on this page... Check the forum tomorrow morning !Emmanuel ==
Thanks very much for making the scale utility available. Your plug-in page is a TREASURE and I really appreciate you making it available. Not sure what the other surprise on the page is, because I've never been there before and don't understand what has changed since yesterday. Whatever it is, I'm very happy to have access to it all!
When I have more time, I intend to go back and download every plug-in you provide, and download your webpage as well - as a handy overview of what each plug-in is/does.
And THANK YOU to Spacekdet and TWWOTW and rjeff. I have no time to experiment right now, but will get in and thrash per your instructions ASAP (and thanks especially for the annotated illustration, Spacekdet).
What a great example of the benefits of user-to-user forums... |
Post by TomG // Jan 19, 2009, 4:09am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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On searching the manual, the fact it is separate PDFs is not a problem - when searching in Acrobat, choose to search folder rather than current doc, and you can search all PDFs of the manual at once, just as if it was one doc. So now you are in luck and not out of it ;)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Emmanuel // Jan 19, 2009, 4:34am
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Emmanuel
Total Posts: 439
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Thanks for the trick Tom ! That's very handy :jumpy:
@3Dvo : the surprise was the Animator's Toolbox. That was the new upload. |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 19, 2009, 1:41pm
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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...when searching in Acrobat, choose to search folder rather than current doc, and you can search all PDFs of the manual at once...so now you are in luck and not out of it ;)I need all the luck I can get! :D
But Thomas, how do you tell Acrobat to search a folder (basically a DOS directory)? I like the Acrobat word search function a lot, but have never imagined it could be used to search anything other than a single PDF file.
I hope I've been (and still am) missing something here...
Thanks
EDIT: In the past, I've only opened a PDF file and then used the toolbar Search button. Based on your advice, I tried hitting the Search button before opening a PDF document and sure enough, have the opportunity to search within a DIRECTORY!
Thanks! |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 19, 2009, 2:05pm
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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3Dvo : the surprise was the Animator's Toolbox. That was the new upload.Ahhhh! I will download THAT for sure!
Thanks for adding it. If I ever get beyond simply relating simple forms in space, I might actually try animating things :D |
Post by TomG // Jan 19, 2009, 2:08pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Can do it from inside Acrobat, with a PDF open - next to the search bar is a drop down arrow, opens the full search panel, and in there you can specify "Current PDF Doc" or "All PDF Documents In"
HTH!
Tom |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 19, 2009, 7:13pm
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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Here, I've come to the Caligari 3D forum to learn how to use Adobe Acrobat Reader. O wuttadork I yam... :jumpy:
Thanks, Thomas. I hope you and Emmanuel, et al, will be this patient when I start flailing about in the program itself. |
Post by TomG // Jan 20, 2009, 4:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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I had no idea about that search capability in Acrobat either til someone posted on the forum, so I'm no different from yourself :) So whether you flail or not, just be sure to always ask questions here as it's a helpful community and we *all* are continually learning.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 20, 2009, 9:09am
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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Will do. Thanks. |
Post by GraySho // Jan 20, 2009, 12:04pm
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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Model side:
You don´t necessarily need a plugin to scale that way. To scale an entire scene, zoom out enough to get all objects into your view, select all objects via CTRL+Leftclick+dragging frame around the scene. Now that all objects are selected, choose the scale tool, click and drag with left and right mousebutton to scale uniformly. Having a look at the object info box you´ll know how big you are scaling. It´s not as comfortable as entering the size directly with proportions locked of course (might be a handy feature for future releases...)
Workspace:
I have no idea how to select multiple objects. I can´t seem to do it neither in the 3D view nor in Link Editor. I guess there´s no other way than encapsulate all objects, then clicking and dragging with rmb+lmb on a scale widget to scale uniformly. Now don´t ask me why workspace doesn´t have the functionality that "legacy" modeler has...
Edit: Sorry, I didn´t read your question carefully enough. Anyway, scaling an object or scene works the same way. |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 20, 2009, 1:36pm
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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I haven't yet tried what you suggest, but here's what I hope to be able to do - offered as a point of reference/clarification:
When I develop a design/plan in CorelDRAW (which works very well for 2D plan work) I set the scale for the entire drawing. For example, I'll set Units of Measurement to Inches and Page Scale to 1/2" equals 12".
Then, when I draw a rectangle representing piece of plywood, I just drag (or enter data in a window) to make that rectangle 18" x 22" or whatever dimesions I need. My "plywood piece" relates to the other objects in the drawing - both in terms of size and position.
I'm hoping I can follow a similar method, but in three dimensions, in tS 7.6.
Thanks |
Post by johnhoward // Jan 20, 2009, 2:35pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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2 points:
1) I operate by a principle: do everything in Workspace - use Model side only if necessary. For me, that means I use the Model side only to import 2d shapes for sweeping (I prefer to make them in Adobe Illustrator), or for the Bend tool (to wrap labels around bottles, for instance) and for a couple of other rare uses.
Scaling in workspace is easy - as a general rule, simply choose a scale that makes everything fit on the grid floor (or smaller). I may want to create a building which is 20 feet high. I start with a cube which is 20 or 2 or .2, depending on what fits the grid floor of workspace. From then on all units of measure are shifted by the same decimal amount - the 24" table may be 2 (feet) or .2 or .02, etc.
Scaling the whole scene is simple if you use the Link Editor for selecting. Learn to name and arrange all your objects in the link editor in horizontal rows so you can watch them in the horizontal Link Editor window. Learn to momentarily expand the Link Editor window to fill the screen(it's the button just to the right of the orange triangle which is just to the right of the "2D" at the top right of the Link Editor) so you can work on visually arranging the elements of your scene (see JPG below). Then shrink it back down (same button). Note that you can move the whole link editor layout by using your mouse wheel as a button (middle mouse button = mmb). Click mmb and drag. If you arrange the objects well in the Link Editor, you can select whole groups of them by clicking and dragging a marquis around them. Once selected, use both R & L mouse buttons together to click/drag any widget scale spot (little cubes) to scale them while watching the info panel BB Size for result.
2) TomG writes: "So whether you flail or not, just be sure to always ask questions here as it's a helpful community and we *all* are continually learning."
Truer words were never spoken. It is absurd to think that anyone - even the incredibly ingenius Caligari developers - knows all there is to know about this software or what it is capable of in the hands of innovative users. Learn to use this forum by writing carefully crafted questions and carefully crafted answers to the questions of others. This forum is one of the most important tools in Truespace. It needs a button of its own. |
Post by 3Dvo // Jan 21, 2009, 8:44am
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3Dvo
Total Posts: 9
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Thanks, John, for the suggestions, the screenshot, and the welcoming words.
1) I looked through every icon button in Workspace mode and could not find any reference to the Link Editor. :confused: Where izdat?
2) I take a pretty literal approach to design, based on knowledge of available materials and their standard dimensions. So I tend to think in terms of actual sizes.
Please correct me, but the Workspace Mode's Object Info Panel does not appear to consider units of measurement such as "inches" or "millimeters". On the other hand, The Model Mode's Object Info window does enable "inches" as a unit of measure. The approach suggested by Spacekdet in Post #6 works as follows:
Model Mode > right-click Object Tool > expand the dialog window
- set Obj. Convert: INCHES
- set Obj. Units: INCHES
- set Scn. Units: INCHES
If assigning units of measure can be accomplished in the Workspace Mode as well, please let me know how.
3) QUESTION: My current test object represents a piece of 3/4" plywood measuring 18" x 24"
That's X= 24" Y= .75" (3/4") Z= 18"
That's a small object, yet it's overwhelming my Model Mode scene and my Workspace scene - taking up the entire grid floor. I'm sure there must be some very simple way to adjust the size relationship between the object and the scene, but....er...duh... |
Post by kena // Jan 21, 2009, 9:12am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Not sure about answers to 2 and 3, but the Link Editor (LE) is at the bottom of your window - you just have to bring it up. |
Post by spacekdet // Jan 21, 2009, 10:07am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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In Model, you can increase the size of the Grid by using the Global Panel.
It's in the flyout beneath the Object Tool.
Bring it up by clicking the icon and then to increase the grid size just drag the blue arrows as indicated below.
There are many other fun functions available with this widget so be sure to check it out.
17784
In the Workspace side, there are a couple tools you will probably find useful if you haven't already discovered them.
To increase the size of the grid, find the 'Ground' panel indicated under the Settings tab in the stack. Adjust the TileCount and the apparent size of the grid will increase.
Another tool you'll probably like is called Distance Feedback Display.
Turn it on by clicking it's icon, right click to display it's options in the stack.
The LE window is located in the small toolbar along with the Library Browser.
It's icon is also pictured below.
This bit of kit will allow base-level access to the scene, even the entire program if you want.
Be warned, you'll need a whole new vocabulary and thought process to utilize it fully.
Put on your spaghetti bib!
17785
<EDIT> Does setting the scene scale on the Model side automagically transfer it over to the Workspace side?
Unknown to me, as I'm very much a 'from the hip' modeler; i.e., if it looks good it's good enough.
Maybe one of the Caligari guys or a beta-tester can answer definitively. |
Post by johnhoward // Jan 21, 2009, 4:01pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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I really don't think you need units of measurment. Here's a piece of plywood as you specified: 24 x 18 x .75 (see measurments in the info panel at "BB Size"), but if it was a detail in a scene with a whole house, I might move the decimal and make it 2.4 x 1.8 x .075.
Note that you can name an object at the bottom of the info panel and the name will show on the object in the LE. You can select the object in the LE by clicking or click/drag a rectangle around it (or around several objects to select them together. |
Post by johnhoward // Jan 21, 2009, 4:29pm
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johnhoward
Total Posts: 231
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SpaceKdet is right about the tile count. An additional point is that if you keep the "zoom" (same panel as "Tile count") the same as the tile count, the little squares will equal a unit of 1. So try experimenting with these rules:
a) keep tile count and zoom the same
b) put in 1/2 the number of squares you want on the side of your grid
So, if we want to place our 18 x 24 piece of plywood on a grid which is 32 inches square (see JPG below), we enter 16 in both tile count and zoom, and we enter the plywood dimensions into the BBSize in the info panel.
I don't know why rule b - why 1/2 the number. A deep Caligari mystery. |
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