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Glass effect?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Glass effect? // New Users
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 9, 2008, 6:50am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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I wanted to know how to make a glass effect in Truespace 7.6. I have been using blender for roughly a year, and discovered Truespace a couple days ago, and have absolutely fallen in love! I won't use blender anymore, and I hope to get V-Ray very soon. But, in blender, I was able to make something appear like glass and have the light pass through it like glass. I just want it to look like glass and basically how to make something appear glass, as I grow jealous of those pics i have seen on the forums!:jumpy: |
Post by TomG // Dec 9, 2008, 7:12am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Depends on what you want. There is no single "recipe" for glass.
To allow light to pass through (that is, so you can see through the glass - see caustics later for bending light from light sources), you use Transmission with Refractance. This will bend light (unlike Transparency, which is more for plastics, where light is not refracted). Lots of tS materials have Transmission, and you can use any of those to make glass.
Glass also reflects light too, so you will need to add some Reflectance.
If you use V-Ray (or download the free ShaderLab for Lightworks in the Model side), you will have access to a shader with Fresnel components. Fresnel is a real effect, skipped in some shaders as it can be subtle and it adds processing time - anyway, it alters the strength of Transmission and Reflection depending on the angle of the surface to the viewer. My glass shader for ShaderLab has been fairly popular and can give some nice results (it does a few odd things regarding the combination of specular highlights, reflection, and refraction, which can help give good results - but sometimes can make things look worse and so require more experimentation to get the values you are looking for!)
Next, if you use V-Ray you can switch on Caustics. Normal raytracing (ie without Caustics) calculates what you see through the glass, but it does not actually bend light from light sources passing through the glass. With Caustics, glass will bend light from lightsources, so you get those focused areas of light from passing through (or reflecting off) glass surfaces. Adds a lot to render time though as you are adding a lot of extra calculations.
Exactly how much Transmission, Refraction, Reflection etc you use, and whether you use Caustics or not, is dependent on your scene and you'll need to experiment to see what looks good.
One thing to note - glass, like metal, needs something to reflect and refract in order to look good, so be sure to have either a surrounding scene, or to use HDRI or a skydome, to add objects and / or background imagery for the glass to reflect and refract. It won't look good standing on its own (and this interaction with the scene is why there is no single good recipe for glass, it will dependent on what surroundings you give it in terms of objects, backgrounds and lighting).
Glass is probably the most difficult material to get looking good, btw - its to still renders what character animation is to movies ;) So be prepared for much trial and error, and much experimentation! And you may need to repeat that for each scene as your own perfect recipe for one scene may not be the ideal combination for the next one. However, just enjoy the experimenting and noting down good settings, and make the journey into something fun! I always like working on glass, and its a material I love in the real world too :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 9, 2008, 10:50am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Thanks so much! This is a big help and I plan to try those things out right now! Again, thanks a lot. |
Post by TomG // Dec 9, 2008, 1:14pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Most welcome! I'd start simple, with something like Glass or Caligari Phong, test objects and backgrounds and lights as well as tweaking refraction values, using Lightworks.
Then I'd move on to fancier shaders with Fresnel components, with a venture into V-Ray if you're not using ShaderLab shaders (third party shaders only work with Lightworks).
Then I'd explore GI, and ultimately Caustics, the most complex and slow part of glass. By starting with the simpler, it should give more fun, less frustration, and also help build foundation knowledge before exploring more advanced concepts.
I hope you share your work, it would be great to see your experiments whether they come out good or bad, as others I am sure can learn from it - plus the community can jump in with advice, suggestions, etc to help guide your own exploration and journey.
Thanks!
tom |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 15, 2008, 8:26pm
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Sorry it has taken me so long to post again. This is my first experiement:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/FirstGlassBall.jpg
Again, this is my first try. Thanks a lot Tom! :jumpy: |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 15, 2008, 8:31pm
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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This is that same ball after messing with the settings:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/SecondGlassBall.jpg
:banana: |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 15, 2008, 8:33pm
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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OK, I now have one thing left to ask as far as glass and then I am set. As you can see, the glass is green, but, the shadow is black, how do I fix this? :confused: |
Post by TomG // Dec 16, 2008, 2:44am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Your shadows arent transparent at all - whats happening is the solid black shadow appears light grey due to light from other light sources in the scene. But really they are solid.
For Lightworks you need to enable transparent shadows, which is done for each light. In the Model side, select each shadow casting light, right click on the option to cast shadows in the light panel, and this opens a control panel for the shadows. Ensure you are using raytracing, as shadowmap shadows can't do transparency. Then ensure that Transparent Shadows is enabled.
That will give you green shadows from some materials, eg like glass. It won't work with third party shadows though, like ShaderLab, if I remember rightly.
One thing to note is that a shadow from a solid thick rounded glass object like this will not look correct, even rendered like that. This is because this is exactly where caustic effects have the most visibility, and our eye will expect them - not a smooth, even shadow, but one with brighter spots, from where light is being focused.
Enabling caustics would be the best way to get the result, as then the light focusing effects will be visible in the shadow and should automatically include the color. This would take Lightworks or Virtualight. Avoiding thick, rounded objects will allow the shadows to look more acceptable, as light focusing effects would be expected to be more subtle.
For the scene overall, its a bit empty to really show the material as glass - surrounding objects will help, by providing things to reflect and things to refract, and really bring the glass to life. Quick solutions are use of HDRI to add a background image, or use of a skycube / skysphere to add a background image. Best of all is to add actual objects, but that's more time consuming ;)
Just for fun, here is an old, old image I did that was all about trying to make glass look good:
http://www.tmgcgart.com/html/glassworks_1.htm
No caustics (we didnt have them in tS back in those days!), just a side effect of a shader casting shadows that made them uneven rather than uniform, so helped avoid the look of a solid, even shadow.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by rjeff // Dec 16, 2008, 3:29am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Tom where would one get that shaderlab? I do not have that..unless 7.6 has it already. |
Post by TomG // Dec 16, 2008, 3:35am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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It was a Primitive Itch product, they ceased trading and developing some years ago, but did make some of their best products free when they shut up shop, you can get them here:
http://www.primitiveitch.com/pub/
Then add a bunch of free shaders (or buy some if you like) from here:
http://www.tmgcgart.com/ShaderLab/index.htm
Also in there is PPFX, a great post- process particle system (no reflections or shadows from particles since its post process, but very fast to render since its post process), and MotionStudio, a Model side fix to the old bones system there (though I prefer the new workspace bones myself to an updated Model side system).
PS - ShaderLab is Model side and Lightworks only.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 5:14am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Wow, Tom, that glass pic you posted is REALLY good! I hope to be able to do that soon! Also, I am planning to work on the shadows today. |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 5:31am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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This is my fixed ball:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/ThirdGlassBall.jpg |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 5:36am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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This is that same ball with a color change, property changes, and a object added in the background:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/FourthGlassBall.jpg |
Post by TomG // Dec 16, 2008, 6:27am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Excellent! You can see how having the cube there to reflect helps make it look more glassy - and of course also provides visual informaton on the shape of the surface by the way the reflection is distorted.
Glass is hard work, but a lot of fun I think. The material is one I find beautiful and fascinating in real-life and in renders :)
I hope you keep sharing renders as you explore.
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 6:45am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Yes, I love glass in both real life and in 3D. It fascinates me in 3D because of how real it looks. I hope to continue learning and making glass look more and more realistic. I plan on making a tutorial for a friend on how to do it(just called and asked me to), so, I may make a video tutorial and post it on the web and on here! That way, more people can make glass, all thanks to you, Tom!:banana: |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 7:02am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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This is a glass bowl I just made:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/GlassBowl1.jpg |
Post by Steinie // Dec 16, 2008, 7:11am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Can you please post at Max 800x600?
Thanks |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 8:56am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Oh, sorry. Ill start rendering for posts in 800x600 |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 9:50am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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This is my latest Glass render in 800X600:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg82/Ospreyluvr22/GlassCup.jpg |
Post by frootee // Dec 16, 2008, 10:47am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Say I like that glass bowl Ospreyluvr.
Nice job!
Froo |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 16, 2008, 12:14pm
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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Thank you! I was rather proud of that myself! |
Post by Weevil // Dec 17, 2008, 2:12am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Hi Ospreyluvr. Nice work
If you need any extra help check out this thread:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=7389 |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 17, 2008, 4:32pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Very nice work Ospreyluvr. Now if I can only find someone who loves to make rain puddles and wants to do a tutorial on it :D |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 18, 2008, 2:33am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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LOL. Sorry, I would love to help, but I don't even know how to make water! |
Post by Weevil // Dec 18, 2008, 7:19am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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Very nice work Ospreyluvr. Now if I can only find someone who loves to make rain puddles and wants to do a tutorial on it :D
You know I MIGHT just have something for you there....somewhere |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 18, 2008, 11:20am
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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LOL. The universe FTW! |
Post by tahnoak // Dec 22, 2008, 5:31pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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You know I MIGHT just have something for you there....somewhere
I hoped you might say that... :banana: |
Post by Ospreyluvr // Dec 22, 2008, 6:22pm
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Ospreyluvr
Total Posts: 112
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I hoped you might say that... :banana:
I hoped he would too! |
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