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Probably a rookie question...
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Probably a rookie question... // New Users
Post by Dangerously Unqualified // Dec 2, 2008, 4:24pm
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Dangerously Unqualified
Total Posts: 3
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Ok, this is probably a rookie question and I’m probably overlooking something obvious but… How do you change a group of objects into a single mesh, nice and quad like, with no internal geometry?
For example:
I started with a simple sphere
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q1.jpg
Added a smaller and more elongated sphere. Copied that object and cut the bottom half off of it.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q2.jpg
Added a third sphere, then poked a hole in the middle of it.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q3.jpg
Assemble the three small spheres and slip over to the model side to glue them all together (with the eyelid and pupil both glued to the eye as a child).
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q4.jpg
Copy the eye.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q5.jpg
Place both eyes on the larger sphere.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q6.jpg
Make another sphere and, again in the model side, smoosh it up a little with the deform tool. Attach this nose to the larger ball.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q7.jpg
Drop on some simple textures (I still need a lot of work on my UV mapping so don’t judge me too harshly) and render the ‘toon head.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q8.jpg
Ok, so all of this was pretty quick, about a half an hour start to finish. But even though it looks like I wanted it to in the render (yes, that is what I was going for) it is still basically a collection of primitives stuck together.
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m115/nd_n8/q9.jpg
So I was wondering what the best way to take this collection of objects and “skin” them up as a single mesh with some nice, pretty quads so I can do morphing/rigging/blinking/etc.?
All help and criticism greatly appreciated.
More 1st level questions to come I assure you.
Thanks |
Post by Délé // Dec 2, 2008, 5:24pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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First off, welcome to the tS forums. :) It looks like you're already off to a good start.
If you want to create a good clean mesh, you really have to use a different method of modeling entirely though. It would be very tedious to try to clean up a mesh that has been booleaned together like this.
First, you will likely want to avoid using spheres. They lose their quads at the poles. The best way to achieve a good clean mesh is to use a technique often referred to as box modeling or subdivision modeling.
It's usually easiest and most common to start with a cube. You start off with a simple blocked out shape. Then you begin adding edge loops (trying to maintain quads and clean edge flow) to slowly add geometry to the model. As you do this, you push and pull the vertices around to tease out the detail that you want.
It's a slow process and takes quite a bit of practice to get good at creating nice clean lines that follow the topology of the model. In the end, you get a good clean model that has exactly the resolution you want and can be animated and morphed with greater ease.
I would suggest searching the web for box modeling or subdivision modeling tutorials. There are quite a few out there. They are often for other packages, but the techniques will be pretty much the same from application to application. There are some free videos from Caligari too. I think they use an older version of tS, but again, the techniques will be the same.
The subdivision modeling forums are a great place to learn about this technique in detail as well.
http://www.subdivisionmodeling.com/forums/
There is also always retopologizing. TS doesn't have any retopo tools though. If you have a program like Silo or 3d Coat, they have retopo tools. I actually really like 3d Coats retopo tools. Basically this method is like tracing over your model in 3d to create a cleaner mesh. It's usually used on sculpted models, but I guess it could work on a booleaned object too. The advantage to retopologizing is that you can break the process up into two parts. First you focus solely on the shape of the object and don't worry about how the mesh looks. Then when you retopo, you can focus all of your attention on creating a clean mesh without having to worry about the shape. For me this has proved to be a good method. You would need a program that can do retopo though.
I posted an example of a mesh that I was retopologizing a while back. This was a sculpt that I made in Silo and have been retopologizing in 3d Coat. I'll post a link here just to give you an idea of how that method works.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=81363&postcount=2
hth |
Post by Délé // Dec 2, 2008, 5:49pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Ah, I see that I have misread your post. I thought you booleaned the objects together, but I see that you have just glued them. I think what you are looking for are the boolean tools. These allow you to combine separate objects in different ways.
16602
As I mentioned before though, this method will not give you a good clean mesh. The subdivision method is usually best, especially if you want to animate or morph the object.
hth |
Post by RorrKonn // Dec 3, 2008, 1:03am
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RorrKonn
Total Posts: 43
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modeling mapping rigging morphing blinking does not matter if you have quads or tri's
or nGons
after you map the mesh you texture the mesh using a 2D app
gimp is free. http://www.gimp.org/
machines robots have separate parts but organics normally have a one peace mesh.
the way the mesh flows is called topology.
for example
http://64.234.196.28/RK_Progress_Face_GS_GSL.jpg
http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_Sub_D_Quads.htm
If you use a Subdivide Some Subdivision systems will convert a tri " triangle " in to a quad.
for those sub divide systems best to model mostly quads.
http://64.234.196.28/RK_Tutorial/RK_T_Mix_Sub-D_Tri-Quad.htm |
Post by Délé // Dec 3, 2008, 3:32am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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modeling mapping rigging morphing blinking does not matter if you have quads or tri's or nGons
I agree, it's not absolutely necessary. Keeping quads is still a good practice though IMO. It will more often produce a cleaner mesh with good topology which can result in better deformation when animating. |
Post by Dangerously Unqualified // Dec 3, 2008, 3:38am
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Dangerously Unqualified
Total Posts: 3
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Thank you very much for the feedback and the links, they explain some things to me.
I'm fairly new to 3D modeling, I picked around with Ray Dream about 6 years ago but let it all fall to the wayside until stumbling upon trueSpace and getting pulled back in.
I think you have answered my next question. If the only way to turn a Q&D model into a clean mesh is to retopograph, then would turning an interaction between metas into a simple mesh be the same? Would it even be possible to retop a meta reaction (the division math looks like a surface but does it behave like one)?
Again, thank you very much for the great info. |
Post by Délé // Dec 3, 2008, 4:06am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Just to be clear, you can clean up a mesh that has been booleaned together. You would have to delete edges, weld vertices together, and such, until you get the mesh the way you want it. So it is possible, but it's usually easier to just model it from scratch.
Yeah, you could also retopo a meta creation that has been flattened into a single object.
You could also try to remodel the object in tS using it as a 3d reference. Without proper retopo tools that snap the vertices to the reference mesh, it will be a little more tedious, but it is something that could be done without the need for another app.
hth |
Post by frootee // Dec 3, 2008, 4:39am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hey D. Very cool model. Are you *sure* you're a rookie modeller? Looks pretty dang good to me! :) |
Post by Dangerously Unqualified // Dec 3, 2008, 5:36am
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Dangerously Unqualified
Total Posts: 3
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frootee - Thank you for the splash of kindness. I've spent the better part of the last two months or so pouring over as many tutorials and tips as possible. I've also kicked around every other free app I could find and this seems to be the easiest and most inclusive (which means it's easy at first but the advanced stuff requires quite a bit of mastery and skill to approach professional results) so here I be.
Délé - Hmm... boolean the bits and pieces... flatten the meta objects... avoid spheres and other shapes that triangulate at the poles... possible to clean up a quick and dirty primitive collusion but easier to just flat out model the mesh (possibly using the Q&D as a source for organic modeling)...
Looks like I know what I'm studying tonight after work.
Thanks again and well met to all. |
Post by Délé // Dec 3, 2008, 6:05am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Spheres and other primitives can still come in handy for eyeballs and such, and are of course often useful in non organic models.
When I need a sphere to start work on an organic model though (perhaps a head or such), I always subdivide a cube a couple of times and flatten it. Then I have a good spherical shape to start with that has all quads. ;)
16608
Keep in mind that this is just one method of modeling though. It is probably the most standard method for organic modeling. However, there are several ways to model. I think Paul Woodward has developed a mixed style of modeling that serves him quite well. He has some fantastic cartoon style renders. Maybe he would be willing to share some of his techniques as well. :) |
Post by RorrKonn // Dec 3, 2008, 10:07am
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RorrKonn
Total Posts: 43
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Only way I ever modeled is with a polygon cube. add loops, polygon draw tool till I get what I want.
have not modeled in tS since tS5 so names of tools might have changed.
Most app's have a loop tool of some kind.
Not saying what is right or wrong.this is 3D there really is not any right or wrong.
Just deferent styles.
I know the quad rule and I can model quads
I use Quads ,Tri's ,nGons,If the app I am working in supports Quads ,Tri's ,nGons. |
Post by Heidi // Dec 7, 2008, 8:28am
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Heidi
Total Posts: 335
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They're right about the modeling... especially if you're going to try to morph or animate your character... then you'll also need to get into edge loops.
The other thing you'll learn is that the lower the resolution of your mesh, the easier it is to create your UV map. :)
BUT... to answer your initial question... if you have your objects already encapsulated, click on your object's little orange triangle in the Link Editor. You should then see all the individual parts of your object and the links connecting them. Select on of those sub-objects and use the Boolean Union (the icon with the two orange balls) and in your 3D window start selecting the additional parts to boolean them together without internal faces or vertices.
You'll probably also need to check the results in point edit and weld some adjacent vertices together to clean up your mesh. |
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