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Rigged Character Bent Out of Shape ?
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Rigged Character Bent Out of Shape ? // New Users
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 1:12am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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Could someone explain the missed step needed in order to keep a newly rigged character from getting bent out of shape ?
16465 |
Post by TomG // Nov 24, 2008, 2:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Looks like a Weight Painting issue, seems that the clothing part is not assigned to a bone.
When moving the skeleton causes some parts to "stay behind", it means the vertices there are not assigned to a bone, so don't know what part of the skeleton to follow. End result is they follow nothing and stay in place :) Sometimes parts follow a bone you don't want them to, causing distortions or creases or other unpleasant effects.
tS is good at assigning vertices by default, but is not always perfect. Solution is to manually do the weight painting. The manual covers the process in a lot of detail (I can say that, since I wrote that part :) ) and I would recommend reading that as the best source of info on weight painting, what it means, and how to adjust it.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 8:16am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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This is far too much unecessary work;). Frankenstein should work like master say !!!:p
I blindly painted him, and he got angry !!!....... Back to the drawing board ?!! |
Post by Tiles // Nov 24, 2008, 8:20am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Nope, back to an older backup and again. But this time not so blind :) |
Post by Steinie // Nov 24, 2008, 8:22am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Can you show us his skeleton? |
Post by RichLevy // Nov 24, 2008, 9:41am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Something to keep in mind when you weight paint.
Set a default pose (you will be able to return to this at any time)
you can than just grab a body part and move then see how the weights are hold up.
You can than paint the part while it is at different extremes.
Add or subtract from the weighting based on how the mesh reacts when you are moving it.
Unfortunately TS does not allow you to see all of the weights at one time, you need to select a bone than observe what the weight mapping lookis like.
HTH
Rich |
Post by TomG // Nov 24, 2008, 9:42am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Well, it is not unnecessary work - even the best program when you attach the skin has to "guess" which part of the model belongs to which bone, and sometimes it will guess wrong. All programs feature manual weight painting for this reason, and a bones system is of no use without it, and all programs will "get it wrong" in assigning skin to bones at some point.
tS actually does a very good job of the assignment indeed, but this re-assignment or correction is a necessary part of working with skeletons and skins, no matter what application you go with.
You'll find it takes only a few minutes at most to tidy up this sort of thing. It would be worth seeing the skeleton too, as depending how you design it, you can minimize this amount of work by making it easier for tS's auto assignment to "get it right" :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by trueBlue // Nov 24, 2008, 9:49am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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The Heal Skin tool would be my first suggestion. |
Post by TomG // Nov 24, 2008, 9:59am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Thats a good suggestion, it adds another automatic attempt to fix it all up and could well give an instant fix - it looks for things that are not assigned to any bones and assigns them.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by mrbones // Nov 24, 2008, 12:43pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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What does the heal skin function do?
I always wondered that.
The Heal Skin tool would be my first suggestion. |
Post by trueBlue // Nov 24, 2008, 6:46pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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You can read all about in the Manual Chapter 8
If you right click on it's icon there is several options also mentioned in the Manual - 8.4.1
The Heal Skin tool lets you automatically apply a range of functions to tidy up, improve or repair how vertices are assigned to bones. For example, it is useful if you test your mesh and find that a vertex has not been assigned to a bone – rather than find the vertex and paint the weight on manually, you may be able to use the Heal Skin tool to automatically assign that stray vertex to the appropriate bone, based on the weight painting of the vertices around it.
The full range of options for Heal Skin are explored in section 8.4.1.
It works for selections as well, where as you enter into Weight Painting, select a Bone and then the Heal Skin tool. |
Post by mrbones // Nov 24, 2008, 6:52pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Would that help in rigging characters that are not exactly purportioned to the shape of a premade skeleton,
Meaning it wouldnt matter the relative size of the skeleton, Like the shoulder width, WIth heal skin it would still be skinned correctly? Or help perhaps?
You can read all about in the Manual Chapter 8
If you right click on it's icon there is several options also mentioned in the Manual - 8.4.1
The Heal Skin tool lets you automatically apply a range of functions to tidy up, improve or repair how vertices are assigned to bones. For example, it is useful if you test your mesh and find that a vertex has not been assigned to a bone – rather than find the vertex and paint the weight on manually, you may be able to use the Heal Skin tool to automatically assign that stray vertex to the appropriate bone, based on the weight painting of the vertices around it.
The full range of options for Heal Skin are explored in section 8.4.1.
It works for selections as well, where as you enter into Weight Painting, select a Bone and then the Heal Skin tool. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 9:16pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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THANKS trueBlue !!! The Heal Skin tool worked nicely ! That's the kind of time saver button I like.....one push fixes all....(instead of blindly selecting different weight paint vertices options through a long trial and error process and still not understanding what the hell you're achieving with each change without time consuming testing in order to find that increasing one value will increase or achieve that).
Here's my next dilema:
16477 |
Post by mrbones // Nov 24, 2008, 9:32pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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You can use Self collision option for bones..
I know that works in simulation mode.
THANKS trueBlue !!! The Heal Skin tool worked nicely ! That's the kind of time saver button I like.....one push fixes all....(instead of blindly selecting different weight paint vertices options through a long trial and error process and still not understanding what the hell you're achieving with each change without time consuming testing in order to find that increasing one value will increase or achieve that).
Here's my next dilema:
16477 |
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 10:15pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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You can use Self collision option for bones..
I know that works in simulation mode.
The only option I see that resembles that is on the Model side ("Collision With All"). This character only acknowledges the Workspace side. I feel that there are possibly more steps involved with making him a permanently stable character. The only thing I've done is Attach Skin to Bone and Heal Skin. |
Post by mrbones // Nov 24, 2008, 10:32pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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In Workspace side LE open the skeleton node located inside Actor.
Switch node tab to exp... There should be a self collision checkbox in there.
The only option I see that resembles that is on the Model side ("Collision With All"). This character only acknowledges the Workspace side. I feel that there are possibly more steps involved with making him a permanently stable character. The only thing I've done is Attach Skin to Bone and Heal Skin. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 11:16pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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Mr. Bones,
I can't find where you're at. On top of that, I just found out that Tank Girl has the same problem..........So I deduce that this may be currently unsolvable ? On a positive note, it could offer a unique posing option !!! |
Post by Mr. 3d // Nov 24, 2008, 11:57pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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One of my biggest problems is how to keep my pre-assigned colors to adhere across to the Model side, considering I don't have Vray and only use the Model side Render engines. As I stated earlier, I feel that my character is not "set in stone" yet and that I missed a step to make him a permanently assigned figure.....even though he looks set in stone with the Model side rendition !.....
16478 |
Post by Steinie // Nov 25, 2008, 2:21am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Nice to see more people trying out the rigging tools in trueSpace. I hope you know (or have already discovered) that workSpace bones are not meant to be used on the Model side.
Why not play with joint limits next? |
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