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Noob question about intended use
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Noob question about intended use // New Users
Post by wstacy // Oct 22, 2008, 9:55am
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wstacy
Total Posts: 3
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I am (very) new to trueSpace, and have a few questions about its intended/nominal use. What I mean is, I'm wondering what people do with the models, animations, physics, scripts, and so on, once they have them in a form they are happy with.
Is it the case that mostly people use tS as a 3D modeler as they would Max or Maya? If so, is the usual "end step" to export to Collada or something?
Or is it instead the case that there are applications like virtual worlds that can use the native tS format? If this is the case, it would seem that there need to be simpler clients (most users in a virtual world won't want all the editing power, for example, nor the large download required for full tS.)
Are there such clients? Are there specialized game engines? MMOG servers? etc.
I've seen references to truePlay, truePlace, and Virtual Earth, but am still somewhat confused about the usage model.
Did I mention I was new to tS?
I tried asking someone in support these questions, and she suggested I post them here. So...
TIA,
--Webb |
Post by mrbones // Oct 22, 2008, 10:01am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Hello,
Welcome to the world of TrueSpace.
TrueSpace is an excellent modeler and animation program.
TrueSpace has many new Modeling tools in the RealTime workspace.
I like the new animation functions, including mocap import and export via BVH.
In addition you can mix animation with realtime physics simulations.
TrueSpace has functionality that Max and Maya, and a lot of the higher end apps do not have. |
Post by TomG // Oct 22, 2008, 11:27am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Lots of things you can do with tS. You can go for traditional end results, such as animations and images. These can be just for fun, or for businesses, making them for clients that need them for anything from marketing to advertising to architectural design and more.
Or you can make models to go into game engines, and then you get into exporting into various formats like X format, COLLADA, etc.
Or you can make real-time worlds for use in tS. There is a player, it's called truePlay - it is the real-time, physics and scripting engines without the editing tools. It's not available right now as we are working on an update to tS, which will require a new version of tP, so rather than make tP just now knowing we just have to change it, we're going to wait until the next tS update is done and then do tP based on that new version. That's how clients, customers, etc who are not into 3D will come into those worlds and spaces.
tS itself is not a place for developing a full FPS or MMO game, rather its a place for making social, collaborative and business spaces. For those FPS and MMOs, go for a game engine made specifically for the purpose, and you can use tS as your modeler to create the 3D content (and the game engine takes care of the realtime display in game, the game logic, etc).
You can export your creations to Virtual Earth, which is a real-time mapping and 3D representation of the earth itself. Place real buildings, or make up your own, and export them onto there for people to see! Anyone with Virtual Earth installed (which is web browser based) can then view what you create.
So, there are many "end steps" depending on what you want to do :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by wstacy // Oct 22, 2008, 12:22pm
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wstacy
Total Posts: 3
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Thanks for your quick replies! A couple of follow-on sets of questions.
When truePlay is available, where will the virtual social/collaborative/business space live? Is it a peer-to-peer system where the truePlay clients will connect to each other and to trueSpace? Or will there be a server involved somehow? And if so, is there special software that will need to run on that server?
The other set of questions is about MMO engines. TrueSpace seems so rich in functionality beyond 3D modeling, especially physics and scripting. When you develop this rich content in trueSpace and then export to an MMO engine, is it all preserved? Does it depend on the MMO engine, and if so, which engines can take advantage of everything trueSpace can do?
Oh, and can Virtual Earth take advantage of trueSpace physics and scripting?
Thanks for being patient with a noob,
--Webb |
Post by mrbones // Oct 22, 2008, 12:37pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Peer to peer I think would be the ultimate...As it is, I think there is a server somewhere.
Thanks for your quick replies! A couple of follow-on sets of questions.
When truePlay is available, where will the virtual social/collaborative/business space live? Is it a peer-to-peer system where the truePlay clients will connect to each other and to trueSpace? Or will there be a server involved somehow? And if so, is there special software that will need to run on that server?
The other set of questions is about MMO engines. TrueSpace seems so rich in functionality beyond 3D modeling, especially physics and scripting. When you develop this rich content in trueSpace and then export to an MMO engine, is it all preserved? Does it depend on the MMO engine, and if so, which engines can take advantage of everything trueSpace can do?
Oh, and can Virtual Earth take advantage of trueSpace physics and scripting?
Thanks for being patient with a noob,
--Webb |
Post by TomG // Oct 23, 2008, 4:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The shared spaces require a central server to be hosted on, that "owns" the space. The software is not available at this time, so having a space of your own requires contacting Caligari to see what can be arranged and set up to meet your needs.
Scripting etc is almost always unique to a piece of software - scripts written in one thing almost never port across to something else. This means that tS scripting is not preserved when sent over to a game engine - basically, you always write the scripting in the end product that you are using for delivery.
It would not be impossible for someone to write a script convertor that parsed one language into another, though, but I've never seen that yet (with any software, not just with tS).
Physics is always run in real-time in the delivery engine, since it has to be calculated in real-time (as you can't know in advance just what is going to happen!). So again you can't port the physics out of tS - you can't port the physical properties either (mass, friction, etc), but again it would not be impossible I guess to have a convertor written that could do that. But again I've never seen that done elsewhere either.
Virtual Earth does not at this time have any animation, and supports only static geometry - this means it has no scripting of physics of any kind, so naturally tS scripting and physics properties are ignored on export to VE.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by mrbones // Oct 23, 2008, 7:50am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Realtime Physics activies can be recorded as keyframes, transferered and played back.
Physics is always run in real-time in the delivery engine, since it has to be calculated in real-time (as you can't know in advance just what is going to happen!). So again you can't port the physics out of tS - you can't port the physical properties either (mass, friction, etc), but again it would not be impossible I guess to have a convertor written that could do that. But again I've never seen that done elsewhere either. |
Post by TomG // Oct 23, 2008, 8:48am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Indeed, you can "bake" the things that tS generates into traditional keyframes, which can then be exported (dependent upon format and receiving engine / software package). That's good for pre-rendered animation sequences, but not good for where you want an object to be responsive to the many different conditions it comes under and generate new results "on the fly" (I was looking at exporting physics in terms of the latter rather than the former!).
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by wstacy // Oct 23, 2008, 9:43am
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wstacy
Total Posts: 3
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Thanks again for the very helpful replies.
One last question (I know I'm pressing my luck...). Suppose I develop 3D content, including physics and scripting, in trueSpace, and save it to a file. When truePlay (as a standalone app, not connected to a shared space or anything) reads that file, will it be able to understand the physics and scripting?
(Otherwise, I'm having trouble understanding why one would use the physics and scripting capabilities in trueSpace.)
Thanks,
--Webb |
Post by frootee // Oct 23, 2008, 9:55am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi wstacy. Ask away! That's what the forums are for, asking and learning, and sharing knowledge. :)
Trueplay is basically a Read-Only application. So, yes, if there are scripts and physics (including Scripted physics events), trueplay should also see these events. It's intended as a World Viewer.
Froo
NOTE: You can go here, in truespace, for an idea of animation and scripting with truespace. This was also accessible with trueplay before, I believe. The space was converted for 7.6. Go to shared space (click the two-eyball icon) and go to space:
//tsportal.caligari.com/1122
That is a Haunted House environment that the community put together. Turn on your speakers. There are also sound effects.
There was a problem with the lights dimming on the server, but it worked well on a local system. There are distance / proximity
triggers in the scene which, when you get close to them, activate an event. There are triggers for sound effects and animations, including
lights dimming (though the dimming does not work on the server, you'll hear an electric zap sound).
That scene should still be there; I should go there just to make sure. |
Post by mrbones // Oct 23, 2008, 10:11am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Thanks Frootee,
I will have to check that out again.
How could we currently add items to the haunted house?
Hi wstacy. Ask away! That's what the forums are for, asking and learning, and sharing knowledge. :)
Trueplay is basically a Read-Only application. So, yes, if there are scripts and physics (including Scripted physics events), trueplay should also see these events. It's intended as a World Viewer.
Froo
NOTE: You can go here, in truespace, for an idea of animation and scripting with truespace. This was also accessible with trueplay before, I believe. The space was converted for 7.6. Go to shared space (click the two-eyball icon) and go to space:
//tsportal.caligari.com/1122
That is a Haunted House environment that the community put together. Turn on your speakers. There are also sound effects.
There was a problem with the lights dimming on the server, but it worked well on a local system. There are distance / proximity
triggers in the scene which, when you get close to them, activate an event. There are triggers for sound effects and animations, including
lights dimming (though the dimming does not work on the server, you'll hear an electric zap sound).
That scene should still be there; I should go there just to make sure. |
Post by mrbones // Oct 23, 2008, 10:21am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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This way of doing things does not seem best for shared spaces.
Why call it "shared" when someone else "owns" the space. (wheres the sharing in that?)
This central server approach(IMO) is bound to fail before it even starts.
TruePlay and SharedSpaces should combine via a realtime communication of some type,
Im not sure if peer to peer is an option, or running your own server either.
There are problems with both.
I know it would be great to be able to embed trueplay clean screens into HTML documents.
That way you could use trueplay for web graphics and content managment.
The shared spaces require a central server to be hosted on, that "owns" the space. The software is not available at this time, so having a space of your own requires contacting Caligari to see what can be arranged and set up to meet your needs. |
Post by frootee // Oct 23, 2008, 10:41am
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frootee
Total Posts: 2667
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Hi Bones.
I think that space is basically Read-Only at the moment.
3dvisuals dude and some other folks were working on web interactivity with trueplay. There is a LCD kiosk floating around the forums here. He made some other stuff too; I recall a forum post where he built a O.S. desktop or something; I'll try to find it. But you can open web pages with trueplay (and truespace) I believe, using WScript function calls. That was last year when that sort of exploration was going on. |
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