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Eye modelling,frequent Truespace crashes
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Eye modelling,frequent Truespace crashes // New Users
Post by xprt007 // Sep 7, 2008, 12:49am
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xprt007
Total Posts: 37
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Hi
I am doing the tutorial "Character Design" at http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/NewCharacterModeling.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older
Since I am just getting to know doing 3D modelling & using Truespace 7.6, there are situations in which one gets stuck even when following such detailed tutorials, because of some step not being mentioned.
Lesson 8 is about making the eyelid.
In the transcript is:
Now it’s time to start work on the eyelids. So we are going to insert a sphere primitive, that is the approximate size of the eyeball. We will be using this as a reference object as we mold the eyelids.
Before this, there is no mention of the eyelid up to the end of Chap. 7.
That portion in quotes is at the very beginning of Cha. 8.
Does it mean one makes a sphere, which is then inserted into the eye socket?
I guessed so & did that, but then I'm faced with another problem. There is no mention of gluing the eyeball to the head. Sometimes one does some actions which need to have the object being in a fixed position, in this example the eyeball relative to the head or there could be some dislocation I think, which may be hard to correct later, or should I assume this is not expected?
The last question is on the relatively high frequency of crashes of Truespace 7.6.
Very often, I get the message saying I should save what I'm doing due to some exception or some error of some form before it closes. Is this normal for Truespace?
Thanks & regards |
Post by RichLevy // Sep 7, 2008, 5:23am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Hi
I am doing the tutorial "Character Design" at http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/NewCharacterModeling.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older
Since I am just getting to know doing 3D modelling & using Truespace 7.6, there are situations in which one gets stuck even when following such detailed tutorials, because of some step not being mentioned.
Lesson 8 is about making the eyelid.
In the transcript is:
Before this, there is no mention of the eyelid up to the end of Chap. 7.
That portion in quotes is at the very beginning of Cha. 8.
Does it mean one makes a sphere, which is then inserted into the eye socket?
I guessed so & did that, but then I'm faced with another problem. There is no mention of gluing the eyeball to the head. Sometimes one does some actions which need to have the object being in a fixed position, in this example the eyeball relative to the head or there could be some dislocation I think, which may be hard to correct later, or should I assume this is not expected?
The last question is on the relatively high frequency of crashes of Truespace 7.6.
Very often, I get the message saying I should save what I'm doing due to some exception or some error of some form before it closes. Is this normal for Truespace?
Thanks & regards
Keep in mind I did that particular many years ago :) so I am just winging an answer for you based on many years of modeling humans/creatures which have eyes in them.
The tutorial is using the eye as a guide, you will be modeling the eyelids to form around the eye ball that you are creating by making a sphere and placing it in the eye ball socket. The eye ball will not be glued/booleaned or attached to the socket, or eyelid geometry, they should remain separate for future animation or posing purposes.
HTH
Rich |
Post by RichLevy // Sep 7, 2008, 5:30am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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Very often, I get the message saying I should save what I'm doing due to some exception or some error of some form before it closes. Is this normal for Truespace?
Thanks & regards
It is not normal, Though TS can be finicky at some operations depending on what you are doing.
Rich |
Post by xprt007 // Sep 8, 2008, 12:31am
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xprt007
Total Posts: 37
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Hi
Many thanks for your response :)
One more question, though about the eye socket/eyeball ...
Before starting on the eyelid, the eye socket area that protrudes inside the head is smaller than the eyeball I made, whose size is proportional to the one in the video tutorial. When I insert the eye to the position enabling pulling the eyelids over it, some parts of the socket seem to protrude inside the eyeball. Is that something bad at all and also with respect to animation or one has to widen that inner part so the eyeball is completely free?
In the tutorial video, the eye cleanly fits, which probably suggests some further refining of the eye socket was made between chapter 7 & beginning of Chapter 8 (when the eyeball is introduced) that was not recorded. This is my first encounter with TS & I am learning everything as I go along with the tutorials.
Regards |
Post by RichLevy // Sep 8, 2008, 1:18am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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First rule of Modeling Club..."there are no rules" :p
If you feel the socket needs to be larger in order to fit the eyeball you made, you can make some adjustments in order to accommodate it. Though you need to keep i mind that all of the geometry behind the front half of the eyeball will not be seen or show in a render. Many tutorials I have done or watched may not even include this geometry. I think the tutorial was done in a time where it was important to make your mesh's with out holes in them, modern 3D programs are not nearly as finicky about that type of geometry. It's good to follow the tutorials and look to duplicate what you see, though somethings are always open to interpretation... eyes, mouths, noses, ears are all very different from person to person, so you can vary and be a tiny bit creative if you choose. The important thing is learning how to use the tools and get the feel of the program...
That is my opinion anyway :D sorry for the lecture. I think that tutorial has been around for some time, at least the early 2000's (I think the late 1990's though).
Anytime you feel like showing some pictures, feel free. I have lost the one I did years ago, and I am sure it was not too good anyway :)
Rich |
Post by TomG // Sep 8, 2008, 2:35am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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There is no need for the eye socket to be big enough to accomodate the ey ball, and overlap is no problem. This part of the model will never be seen, so doesn't need to be "built properly". The interconnecting parts will not stop the eyeball object from animating properly (contact and intersecting will only make a difference to animation where using physical simulation, that does look for where meshes touch - you'll be animating your eyeball with keyframes or perhaps scripts / procedural animation, both of which are unaffected by objects touching or even intersecting with each other).
This is the rule of "only model what you see". Now, if you are going to do a cut away showing the eye and how it sits inside the skull, then it's all change and you would need to model it correctly, as you will be seeing those parts.
Otherwise, when something is hidden, don't worry if it is "correct" as no-one will ever see it :)
HTH!
Tom
PS - the course only covers the modeling phase, not the animation phase. You position the eyeball there to act as a guide to getting the eyelid curve and location correct. Later you would use the Glue (model side) or Encapsulate (workspace side) tools to "attach" the eye to the head, allowing the eyeballs to follow the head when it moves, but still to be animated separately by moving down into the hierarchy of objects to select them). |
Post by xprt007 // Sep 10, 2008, 12:56am
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xprt007
Total Posts: 37
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Ok, thanks for the responses & helpful hints.
I have wasted lots of time trying to get the surrounding "skin" from touching the eyeball, fearing it might affect its animation performance in case such a step is taken later.:mad::p
One thing I am wondering about is this:
When working on the eyelids/head, since the eye is not glued (at this stage), if I want to change the position of the head e.g by rotating, the eye is left floating somewhere on its own and the 2 have to be aligned again.
Is this avoidable or it's something one has to live with? |
Post by jayr // Sep 10, 2008, 2:04am
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jayr
Total Posts: 1074
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Ok, thanks for the responses & helpful hints.
I have wasted lots of time trying to get the surrounding "skin" from touching the eyeball, fearing it might affect its animation performance in case such a step is taken later.:mad::p
One thing I am wondering about is this:
When working on the eyelids/head, since the eye is not glued (at this stage), if I want to change the position of the head e.g by rotating, the eye is left floating somewhere on its own and the 2 have to be aligned again.
Is this avoidable or it's something one has to live with?
If you're going to start animating the head you should glue the eye in place using either the 'glue' tool on the model side or the 'encapsulate in 3d' tool in the workspace. they'll move togther and you could rotate the eyes seperatly by opening the object in the link editor and selecting the eyes. |
Post by TomG // Sep 10, 2008, 4:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Or if you are not ready to glue, just select the head, hold down CTRL and click on the eye, and this selects them both at once. Now when you rotate, you will rotate both of them. Applies of course to any objects, and you can use CTRL click to add as many objects as you like to the selection.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Steinie // Sep 10, 2008, 4:52am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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...or you can select all the related object in the LE. That is sometimes the easiest way to do it. |
Post by xprt007 // Sep 11, 2008, 2:17am
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xprt007
Total Posts: 37
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Thanks as ever for the helpful tips.
Here are some pics of what I have done so far in that course in chapter 9 (http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Courses/NewCharacterModeling.asp?Cate=Training&SubCate=Older).
Pic 1: http://www.simba.x10hosting.com/eye1.jpg
Pic 2: http://www.simba.x10hosting.com/eye2.jpg
They show the same object, with the second one being in solid form.
In the authors version, which is only in transparent or solid outline, the eye ball appears to be "clean" (i.e. no "membrane" or anything similar) whereas I dont seem to get the eye completely into the same state and as you can see in the solid outline form in the second pic, the eyeball is not round.
When preparing to get the eyeball there, I cut out the portion there by selecting it & using the object separation tool & delete to get rid of it. I also tried the object subtraction tool, but they both seem to leave some sort of membrane there, whereas the tutorial clip seems to show that space is completely empty.
My eyeball however seems to protrude through that film which according to my theory obstructs the appearance of the eyeball as a complete slice of a sphere as seen in pic 2.
Is my theory correct? If so, how do I correct it?
Is there a way to get rid of that "membrane" or it does not matter? I am quite unsure of anything if it does not look like the authors and would only want to proceed if I am doing the right thing.
:confused:
Thanks again |
Post by TomG // Sep 11, 2008, 3:51am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The "membrame" is just the back face of the eye socket. You need to sweep that back behind the eye, Dynamic Sweep would do it (workspace side).
HTH!
Tom |
Post by xprt007 // Sep 18, 2008, 12:52am
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xprt007
Total Posts: 37
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I did. It looks much better now.
Thanks:D |
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