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Help on application crashing!
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Help on application crashing! // New Users
Post by chromedragon // Jan 26, 2007, 4:38am
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chromedragon
Total Posts: 33
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Recently I moved to 5.2 from an old version. I didn't notice it so much with the older versions *perhaps cuz I didn't use it as much and as long), but Truespace crashes alot. I installed the application on my work PC (W2000) and at home (WXP), and while the XP stays running longer, I still end up losing some of my work. Perhaps I am not saving as often as I should.
Anyway, I tried to show my wife what I bought, and needless to say, it crashed several times while I was giving her a tour. How embarrassing!
Is this a normal occurance for TS? Could there be other s/w interferring with its ability to work? |
Post by Steinie // Jan 26, 2007, 5:39am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I'm not familiar with that version so someone else must guide you. If you do a search on "crash" you'll find it is common. There are certain tools that are powerful but dangerous and you'll find yourself saving before performing.
Now there could be hardware or driver problems that could also be your nemesis. Make sure everything is updated for a happier life.
TS users always say "save often" |
Post by Chester Desmond // Jan 26, 2007, 7:30am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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From what I've seen a lot of crashes occur from doing something the software doesn't like. Rather than saying "you can't do that, OK?" , it crashes.. there's been a few discussions over the years about error trapping (or lack thereof).
From personal experience I can say that each new version has been more stable for me; additionally (and perhaps most importantly) as my own ability and knowledge increased, the crashes decreased proportionally. From this I think it's fair to say I was often "doing something wrong".
Some things to really watch out for:
-when you are point editing (especially adding edges) make sure you are selecting the verts you intend to.. if "backside" is on it is very easy to add a line which passes through the object and causes crazy geometry
-if you are doing cpu intensive things, give it time.. adding a skeleton to a 500,000 poly mesh can take some time and all the button mashing and clicking just adds to the cpu's frustration
-Boolean functions can be problematic.. there are numerous threads about this
-bones are pretty sensitive too and again there are many threads about them
-the Caliarchive (button is at top of forum pages) is a giant source of information about TS.. especially older versions.
-like Steinie said: save often - the new (to you) libraries are your best friend here.
-another thing I've learned is that any alterations (custom toolbars\ arrangements; hotkey setups) will be lost if you crash, so if you do significant customization, close the program down and re-open it to save these changes; there is also a configuration library to save layouts
-in general it got to a point for me that I felt like I had to walk on eggshells whenever I used TS, just holding my breath waiting for a crash..again as I became more deliberate and precise with what I was doing and learned the quirks, I began to feel a lot more comfortable and TS did too.. just like any other love affair in life :) |
Post by trueBlue // Jan 26, 2007, 8:10am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Can you feel the Love?
Well said Chester Desmond:banana: |
Post by Steinie // Jan 26, 2007, 8:24am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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"in general it got to a point for me that I felt like I had to walk on eggshells whenever I used TS, just holding my breath waiting for a crash..again as I became more deliberate and precise with what I was doing and learned the quirks, I began to feel a lot more comfortable and TS did too.. just like any other love affair in life"
After seeing the message about "TS7 thinks you gotta problem bub and thinks you should restart trueSpace" (not verbatim) one too many times, and me dangling the dvd out of an 80 story building, I saw your response Chester Desmond. You saved a relationship!:rolleyes: |
Post by Chester Desmond // Jan 26, 2007, 8:41am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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hahaha, cool! Perhaps I should get into relationship counselling.. but then again dangling the significant other from a skyscraper seems like an easier choice some days hehe |
Post by rj0 // Jan 26, 2007, 9:01am
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rj0
Total Posts: 167
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Although it's been awhile since I've used it, version 5.2 was pretty stable for me. Recollections of what caused crashes?
Number one culprit was probably video drivers. Make sure you have the latest/stablest drivers for your video card. Also try the different real-time rendering alternatives (DirectX, etc.). Some video drivers are stabler with one mode or another. And perhaps try different real-time display modes, some will work more reliably (especially as scenes get bigger). Which reminds me, if crashing occurs more often as scenes do get bigger, adding memory (and/or increasing virtual memory settings) and defragmenting the hard drive (especially if it's getting full) might help reduce crashing significantly. Another thing to try, is to periodically save your scene, exit trueSpace, and restart the program (and if working long enough, maybe the computer; this is a common approach for dealing with programs that have memory leaks, and most programs have some). Remember that textures take up memory as well. Also, minimize the number of background programs/processes, if possible. They use memory too, and there is always the possibility of conflicts. Note also that some tS plug-ins, especially plug-ins developed/intended for previous versions of trueSpace (eg. for tS 3, 4), may make trueSpace 5.2 noticeably less stable, and many have their own bugs, which can sometimes crash trueSpace even if the plug-in isn't actively used. Check any compatibility notes, if available, for your plugins.
As for modeling-caused crashes, as noted above, trueSpace often doesn't handle strange situations really well, so it's important to save your scene and objects before trying new things. Usually, there are multiple ways to do things, and not all of those were anticipated by the developers, but usually there is an approach that won't crash things. The trick, at times, is figuring what that approach is. Usually, the more one uses tS 5.2, the more one gets accustomed to approaches that work reliably.
I'm can't help but emphasize what was mentioned above, and these are modeling bugaboos in most 3D programs. Overlapping geometry, within objects or between objects, as well as inverted polygon normals, often cause crashes in trueSpace if certain operations are applied. There are Fix Geometry and Normal tools in trueSpace that can frequently help, but good modeling techniques are even more successful. Be especially wary of imported objects (always run the Fix Geometry on those, and maybe a quick render to see if normals are inverted). Booleans require good object overlap, but try to limit using booleans to two objects at a time, and make sure that the two objects each have good geometry before going at it (save first, and definitely don't forget that there is a precision control for the boolean tools).
Lastly, as noted, trueSpace bones have never been very reliable. Be prepared to deal with problems with them. I never did get into them much, but others, I'm aware, know of tricks to make them work fairly reliably, so you may need to dig around for answers if you get actively involved in trueSpace animations. The only recollection of a mentioned problem/solution that I have offhand here is that saving the scene can result in problems where the bones are messed up upon reloading, and I believe the recommendation for this was to make sure the animation was at frame 0 before saving.
I'm sure there's more, but tS 5.2 can work pretty reliably, and be a lot of fun, once you get accustomed to it.
rj |
Post by 3dpdk // Jan 26, 2007, 10:26am
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3dpdk
Total Posts: 212
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Just to add to all the good advice here:
A couple of things to keep in mind while working with tS:
BIG #1: Save; save objects and scenes but if you think tS has just messed up some geometry use a different file name.
2 Boolean operations have a limit before things start disappearing or crashing your system. Depending on how complex the wire-frame. About 5 to 7 adds or subtractions is about it.
2A. In earlier versions DO NOT attempt to do a boolean operation to a hierarchal object while it's still attached. You may or may not get away with it.
3. Point edit mode can become confused if adding or deleting vertices. If you notice a point or vertices going wild, exit point edit mode immediately; repeat immediately! Sometimes I select another object then back to the one I'm working on and re-enter PEM. This seems to give tS a new starting point.
4. Some of tS's operations are extremely memory intensive. Rendering with all the bells and whistles, rendering a complex scene with a lot of transparencies, rendering a scene with a lot of complex, multi-layered procedural textures, smooth dividing an already complex mesh or worse, smooth dividing a mesh with bad geometry, animations of complex scenes; ... just to name a few. The key word here is complexity. The greater the complexity, the greater the chance for crashing.
5 If you have a lot of other programs working in the background and if you have a lot of protection software monitoring this memory usage, it (or they) can interfere with tS. Turn them off or do a "clean" boot (I can explain if anyone want's to know how to "clean boot") if you plan a heavy tS session. This insures that tS won't have to fight for memory or processor time. A side benefit is a slight increase in speed and performance.
6. NURBS are problematic but I don't have the experience with them. I'm only now beginning to work with these strange curved surfaces, so do a search in these and the old forums.
[EDIT]
There was a fellow, technodandy in the old forums (not sure of his current screen name) that discovered that running tS with visual C++ in debug mode virtually eliminated any NURBS crashes. I'm not sure how he did that but it's all in the old forums. Search "nurbs bug"
read thread here (http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/1580/18502.html?#POST71351)
7. tS 6.x (don't know about 5.x) has error trapping but it doesn't always work, and if you do get the opportunity to save your work as the message suggests, use another file name; it may not reopen properly. If it does, just re-save it under the original name.
8. rj0 is correct about bones and animations. Usually your system will not crash working with these but if not careful, it can really mess up a days work in modeling. Save everything before attaching bones, and save after EVERY successful task completion, and don't get impatient. Do everything in order and don't jump ahead like to see how a character's hand will animate before finishing adjusting all the other joints. Once animated, going back to make further joint adjustments and repositioning can have some really strange effects.
All - in - all, with experience, you will get a feel for when tS is about to bite the dust. Well ... 75% of the time. Just save your work, close and reopen tS. There seems to be an acceptable trade off for most happy tS users between occasional instability and it's "intuitive" modeling abilities. I'd much rather yank around a vertices until it looks good than enter a bunch of obscure numbers in an entry field.
Happy modeling!
Paul |
Post by hultek43 // Jan 26, 2007, 1:45pm
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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I've noticed that some threads in the archive seem to have been lost or deleted without a trace while searching for them. :( Maybe Caligari has them on tape or other back-up, but they were never added due to some limitation or oversight. |
Post by chromedragon // Jan 28, 2007, 5:56am
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chromedragon
Total Posts: 33
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Thanks for the information. I will keep these items in mind when I use Truespace. |
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