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hinged properties continued
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
hinged properties continued // New Users
Post by rjeff // Dec 13, 2006, 4:20pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok now that I have figured out that I am on the right path. I now am having problems getting the group hierarchey right. What do I glue as siblings and children to get the blue motors to rotate properly? |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 13, 2006, 5:19pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I guess I'm having a difficult time visualizing what motion that thing would do other than a steel whip. :D
What is it supposed to do?
I mean what moves and what doesnt?
Why do you want the blue motors rotating? |
Post by rjeff // Dec 14, 2006, 4:06am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok..good question. Imagine if you will a robotic arm. The motors are used to position the arm into the correct position. They all have the same rotation properies. The top motor would push the arm foward and backwards. The second motor would lift the arm up and down. The third motor is used to tilt the panel. They would all have the axis at the center and that would acheive the rotation I want. I just can't figure out how to get this right, while the whole thing is one big object. As stated before I want it to be glued togther so when I put in in to the scene I can just position the arms into place without having to do a lot of work. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 14, 2006, 4:54am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Whichever end is the 'stationary end' should be the parent. After placing it in the scene you will have to go down into the heirachy to rotate etc. the child of choice. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 14, 2006, 7:04am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok in that case the cone shaped object up top is the stationary one. I assume then that everything esle should be glued as a child then? |
Post by Chester Desmond // Dec 14, 2006, 7:31am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Have you considered making a jointed IK object? With that you could grab one end and the whole arm would move in the correct way , rotating at the joints etc...Kind of a PITA to set up but may save you a lot of hierarchy problems... |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 14, 2006, 7:38am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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I assume then that everything esle should be glued as a child then?
Assume is a bad word :D. It appears that you will need more than one child in order to achieve the control you want. Each part takes it's 'children' with it while rotating etc. hth |
Post by rjeff // Dec 14, 2006, 9:34am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ya know I have had TS for years and there is so much that I have not even used. Like the IK and stuff. I guess I am gonna have to do a lot of trial and error to get this right. Heck I am not even sure where to start. Thanks for the help. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 14, 2006, 11:59am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I would look at this series of videos. The rigging and explaination of how to 'bone' an object is in a couple of the last sets of vidoes. Of course, the other videos cover modeling. Excellent resource for modeling, rigging and skinning.
http://www.caligari.com/gamespace/tutorial/video_3DBuzz.asp
You can view the videos over and over, I even downloaded them on my hard drive. This will get you rolling in clover.
There are several plug-ins you can purchase, specifically for mech stuff, V C Tech is the vendors name and is available at the Caligari 3rd Party store.
http://www.caligari.com/Products/trueSpace/ts5/plugins/3rdParty/vc.asp?Cate=3rdParty |
Post by rjeff // Dec 14, 2006, 4:15pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok so I can add bones to my mech arm...but do I have to skin it as well or just add the bones...I am dloading the tuts now..thanks for the info.. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 14, 2006, 6:30pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Skinning in trueSpace just means attaching a nail so the polygons adhere to the bones. It's quick, select nail, click on object. Skinning in other applications means something different as in mapping textures.
But basically, to answer your question after rigging (putting in bones and joints) click the nail, you're done. |
Post by trueBlue // Dec 14, 2006, 6:58pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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This is copied and pasted from the trueSpace6.5 Help file.
Nail -The nail is the little blue triangle you see hanging onto each unique skeleton in a scene. It controls which part of a skeleton will remain stationary when using Inverse Kinematics. The nail is created automatically whenever you create a skeleton. To move a skeleton use the move tool and either drag the bone with the nail, or drag completely off the object.
Note: It is possible to create a complex skeleton object consisting of more than one IK branch. These types of complex objects have nails for each branch. A nail cannot be moved outside of its branch. If you attempt to do this, the nail automatically returns to its former position. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Dec 15, 2006, 4:27am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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I don't think you'll want to 'skin' anything - this implies that you want the arm to flex like a snake as opposed to jointed segments like a robotic arm. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 15, 2006, 5:31am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Attached scene was done quickly. You could use bones( and attach object to bone) but it's not necessary in this case. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 15, 2006, 6:29am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Thanks for the help guys...I will fool around with this this weekend and post it so you can see and help me fix my errors. I will do this while I watch my Panters probably loose yet another game..even though "we" are playing Pittsburg..they are a "tough" game the way they "we" are playing..as if I am on the team... |
Post by rjeff // Dec 15, 2006, 3:40pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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well I tired to do the gluing thing and to be honest I can't seem to get any hireracrchy other than glue as sibling. They all become one object then I arrown down to the motors and just the motors move not the arms and other parts connected. I have tired to add a skeleton to my mech arm and it just deforms the entire object and does not rotate them properly. This is getting frustrating I have to say. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 15, 2006, 4:26pm
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Simpler is better in most cases. I'm guessing that you downloaded the scene I posted earlier today. If you noticed, I booleaned some of the parts together. If you open the KFE you can see which objects have been placed where. I grouped these in the KFE rather than as child or as sibling. Attached in newer post find scene which has some simple animation. Play with it is about all I can say at this point. |
Post by jamesmc // Dec 15, 2006, 5:39pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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It would probably be helpful if there was tutorial with it. New users don't often know the terms and hardly any of the procedures.
This is one of the most frustrating things about trueSpace is their lack of concentrated tutorials freely available to the user.
There is a $79.00 software program I bought and it had 80 (COUNT THEM EIGHTY) videos on how to use the software.
If Caligari did this, their software would be a H U G E success.
As it is now, most of the tutorials are done privately and scattered all over the web, in a gillion different formats and varying degrees of difficulty with beginner to advanced mixed all together.
This, in my opinion, is one of the biggest failings of trueSpace.
This is not the first time this has been brought up and I'm not the only one to bring it up. It shouldn't take years to learn how to do simple things when some of the "Pros" at Caligari could take an hour out of their time and do some decent training videos. I said decent...
Wonder why new people don't stay, take this as a very strong hint. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 16, 2006, 1:58am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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What's fruatrating, is believing you have uploaded a scene with animation, only to find out it isn't.:confused: Lets try this again. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 16, 2006, 1:50pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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ok I am gonna set up my arm with bones and then I will upload the scene file. You can then help me get this figured out..hopefully |
Post by rjeff // Dec 17, 2006, 10:11am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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ok..going crazy here. I am having a time with bones right now.... I booleaned all the parts together that go together and then glued them together and arrowed donw to the idivudual arms and tried to rotate them and well just that arm rotated not all the other arms attached. Here is my scene...some one set this up so I can see it...I can't seem to figure it out on my own. I would love to see it with bones and with the hierarchy so see both. I am gonna learn this. I need to learn this. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 18, 2006, 4:12am
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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I booleaned all the parts together that go together and then glued them together and arrowed donw to the idivudual arms and tried to rotate them and well just that arm rotated not all the other arms attached. Here is my scene...some one set this up so I can see it.
Took 3 tries to download the scene.... Attached, find your scene with the objects 'correctly' linked/grouped. You'll notice a very big difference from what you uploaded. I hope....I didn't move or rotate anything (including axis). Sorry no bones..... |
Post by Chester Desmond // Dec 18, 2006, 5:15am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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Here's the jointed version for you to have a look at. I can try to post a short tutorial if you are interested. |
Post by spacekdet // Dec 18, 2006, 9:20am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I don't see much mention of this tricky, yet handy tool but it may be just the thing you could use. Consult the manual in the Physical Simulation section and do a little experimenting for details on it's use. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 18, 2006, 10:12am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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man you guys rock... I thank you so much. My problem is I learn by doing and books and what not tend to confuse me more. Chester I would like to tutorial if you have the time. I am going to study both of these examples and learn this stuff. It may come in hand for other things. |
Post by Chester Desmond // Dec 18, 2006, 10:46am
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Chester Desmond
Total Posts: 323
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I will try and get something done tomorrow as a tutorial
...in playing a little with my arm I realized I have put it together wrong and if you try and animate it you will wish to kill me soon. Please use the one attached below instead.
It is very important that you do things in a certain order and I reversed that order, as a result the first arm I posted works "backwards".. Sorry if you lost any hair over this!
Incidentally, if you try a little animation with them both, you may see a big difference which I will explain in the tut. and you may know what I am talking about by seeing my mistake. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 18, 2006, 12:49pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Hultek that is exactly what I wanted. Now did you do the groupings in the KFE or using the glue as function? Chester thanks for the time you are willing to put into helping me out. I am very interested in learning you way to. As it may help me out alot in future endeavors. I am really embarrased to ask this help since I have had TS since V4..you can see how much time I have put into it. |
Post by hultek43 // Dec 18, 2006, 1:36pm
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hultek43
Total Posts: 234
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Just dragged and dropped in the KFE. Naming components sometimes helps. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 18, 2006, 1:41pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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ok I am doing just that...naming the parts to make it eaiser. I will experiment with the dragging and dropping to see if I can recreate what you did. |
Post by rjeff // Dec 18, 2006, 6:39pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Yeah I did it....well with the help of some very nice people. I hope I can return the favor to you or help other people out. Thanks Hultek and anybody else who helped and in the process of still helping. I am going to make a new post about something that may not even be possible...so check out the main page.. |
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