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SDS Modeling in trueSpace and advanced tools
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
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SDS Modeling in trueSpace and advanced tools // New Users
Post by Steinie // Mar 15, 2006, 3:06am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I have some questions I hope everyone can clear up for me. Is SDS in trueSpace the same as Subdivision modeling? Is that what Zbrush is doing or is it advanced tools?
If ZBrush models are SDS objects can they be used in TS?
Does TS plan on creating advanced tools for SDS to do ZBrush type modeling?
I'm sure some of these questions might not make sense but I am trying to figure out what SDS really is plus it's benefits. I find objects made with ZBrush amazing and was hoping TS was heading in that direction. |
Post by tomasb // Mar 15, 2006, 5:35am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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SDS - SubDivision Surface. SDS is made as filter node in LE and all future Player point edit tools will work with it. SDS in player does not allow modeling lower layers as it is in Modeler, adding detail will be done a bit differently (displacement maps & ...) (but if there is a request, it may be added)
We have in plane many new tools (also we plan to convert old modeler pe tools); one very advanced will be in 7.1 update. |
Post by frank // Mar 15, 2006, 6:20am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Steine: I'm sure some of these questions might not make sense but I am trying to figure out what SDS really is plus it's benefits.
Simply put, SDS (SubDivision Surfaces) allows you to work with little detail (low-poly model or control cage) and later subdivide it, letting the software increase the resolution (polycount).
In older versions of trueSpace you had to accomplish this by either doing a SmoothQuadDivide at 180 degrees, or using the ThermoClay plugin.
For a little more info, check out the following site: http://symbolcraft.com/graphics/subdivision/
Steine: Is that what Zbrush is doing or is it advanced tools?
Z-Brush is quite different than most other modelers in the way it gives an intuitive "3D painting" method of modeling. |
Post by splinters // Mar 15, 2006, 9:02am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Both good answers there for you Steinie. What might help is to get examples of what it is used for. For a quick example, if you look at any of my 'cartoon style' character work, I make rough polygon models that start with a simple cube. When I have basic features I can 'smooth' the mesh. Imagine you have a rough block of candle wax then you take a hot air gun to it-it will start to smooth out as it gets hotter. That is how I picture SDS but it has many other uses. Smooth and organic modelling rely on it more than mechanical stuff. Hope this clear it up a bit....;) |
Post by Délé // Mar 15, 2006, 9:07am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I'll explain it in yet another way. :)
When you apply subdivision surfaces to an object, it divides each quadrangle (four-sided polygon) into four more. Then it uses this new geometry to round off hard edges. So each time you add a layer of subdivision, it increases the polygon count by about 4 times. This is why it's best to keep quads when SDS or "Box" modeling. If you have triangles, or N-sided polygons, the division will be unpredictable and can cause pinches or creases.
I think a large part of what makes Zbrush models look so cool is the normal mapping. Zbrush does have an interesting way of modeling, and seems to be quite good for modeling organics. I think quite a few people use Zbrush just to create normal maps for their objects too though. TS7 does use normal maps on the player side. So you should be able to make models in TS, bring them into Zbrush and paint on some wicked cool normal map, and then apply that Zbrush created normal map back on the model in TS7. I've only played with the demo for Zbrush so I'm mostly going off of what I've heard.
If you're not sure what normal mapping is, you could think of it pretty much a more sophisticated bump map. While a bump map uses a black and white image to determine the height or Z axis of the bump, a normal map uses RGB to determine all three axes. This gives an even better, more realistic looking bump and can make models look much more detailed then they really are. |
Post by Naes3d // Mar 15, 2006, 2:18pm
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Naes3d
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I want to add a definition too!
SDS In 3D, the process of picking a polygonal mesh and applying a mesh refining algorithm technique to increase the smoothness and the continuity of the mesh (definition by Mario Russo).
I mention this because there are diffent methods of subdivision that all produce different results. I believe tS follows the Catmull-Clark method.
The closest you will get to Zbrush style modelling in any other program is with metaballs. Without knowing much about Zbrush it appears that the underlying Zspheres act as a guide over which a low poly mesh is skinned. A metaball acts more like a boolean operation where the continuity of the mesh is maintained.
Zbrush objects can be exported to many packages, tS included. |
Post by tomasb // Mar 16, 2006, 2:02am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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I mention this because there are diffent methods of subdivision that all produce different results. I believe tS follows the Catmull-Clark method.
Yes, faces without holes are done using catmul-clark, but it is generalized to support vertex/edge weights... |
Post by Steinie // Mar 16, 2006, 7:57am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I wanted to bake the question before thanking everyone for their responses.
You all helped me in differant areas of SDS and again, and I appreciate it.... Thank You! |
Post by Alien // Mar 16, 2006, 9:29am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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When you apply subdivision surfaces to an object, it divides each quadrangle (four-sided polygon) into four more. Then it uses this new geometry to round off hard edges. So each time you add a layer of subdivision, it increases the polygon count by about 4 times. This is why it's best to keep quads when SDS or "Box" modeling. If you have triangles, or N-sided polygons, the division will be unpredictable and can cause pinches or creases.
Sounds like a useful tool to add to tS would be 1 that highlights any faces on a model with more or less than 4 sides, so as to make it easier to edit the mesh to make it more SDS-friendly. |
Post by stan // Mar 16, 2006, 9:54am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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Sounds like a useful tool to add to tS would be 1 that highlights any faces on a model with more or less than 4 sides, so as to make it easier to edit the mesh to make it more SDS-friendly.
Alien..the future is already here..lol..it's part of polytools..
it's called "search poly 1.00" |
Post by e-graffiti // Mar 16, 2006, 10:33am
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e-graffiti
Total Posts: 171
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Alien..the future is already here..lol..it's part of polytools..
it's called "search poly 1.00"
Stan, I have not come across the term polytools nor did I find the "search poly 1.00" in the tS7 manual. Can you instruct me on where to find this functionality? Unless the lol is really a lol and this functionality does not exist :-( |
Post by Alien // Mar 16, 2006, 10:41am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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Stan, have not come across the term polytools nor did I find the "search poly 1.00" in the tS7 manual. Can instruct me on where to find this functionallity?
I think he's talking about a plugin, which I might have [it was bundled with 1 of the Paks, wasn't it?]. I think it would be better if Caligari incorporated something like this into tS, as although it [the plugin] may work for the model side it's unlikely it'll work in the player. |
Post by stan // Mar 16, 2006, 11:49am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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http://ckgamefactory.hp.infoseek.co.jp/index-e.html
yes it's a plugin, part of a set of tools called "polytools"..and yes it would only work on the model side.. |
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