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Null pixels and objects
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Null pixels and objects // New Users
Post by Freaky42 // Mar 3, 2006, 12:41am
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Freaky42
Total Posts: 28
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:jumpy:
Okay so the question is this. I want to take a object, animated or not but lets say it is for now, and place this object as a seperate layer in a editor such as Adobe premiere. This object is to be the only visible thing in the layer.
Example: Full motion video of a person walking on one layer. The other layer will be the object, say a handbag, that is super imposed on the persons shoulder. I understand the adjustments needed to both layers to make the object match the persons movement and such however, how do I make the object alone show on this layer. Is there a way to make the back ground around the object use null colors(sort of like a .gif) and leave the object alone as visible if I was to export it in a video format. Or would I have to use a image format that supports the null pixels and export it as a image sequence and feed it to the editor?
Thank you.
P.s. Mind I can not actually access truespace at the moment so general directions would be helpfull. I am currently um... deployed... so I can't get to my nice shiny new truespace 7 disk..:(
Any info appreciated:) |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 3, 2006, 1:10am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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If you render the animation to a numbered series of 32bit TGA files, you can import the sequence into premiere and select the alpha channel for transparency overlay.
You could also set a solid colour background to the scene in tS then render the animation to AVI for chromakeying in Premiere - blue and green are commonly used for the background/chromakey colour but this means that the object itself would have to not use these colours otherwise it would get keyed out as well. |
Post by Freaky42 // Mar 3, 2006, 2:03am
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Freaky42
Total Posts: 28
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Thanks for that. I figured I'd have to key out a background. I was hoping there was a way to remove it natively from truespace as I output it to a video file but I guess not. I'll just have to add a plane to the background or a single shade and key it out then. :) Thanks.
Other question.
I noticed in another thread there was a way to add the cell-shaded effect by applying a "toon" selection to the ?reflectance? setting on a object I think it was. The objects in question looked fairly nice and hand drawn like. However how do you add and modify the outline property of the object? Such as its darkness, color,and width. Is this a "toon" property or is it another property? |
Post by Bobbins // Mar 3, 2006, 3:09am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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I was hoping there was a way to remove it natively from truespace as I output it to a video file but I guess not.
I'm not aware of any AVI format/codec you can render to directly from tS that supports alpha channels - maybe somebody else does? 32 bit TGA sequences are no harder to create from tS, load into Premiere and set the tranparency parameters for than it would be with an AVI so it's not much of a loss. The only difference is that a numbered TGA sequence will take up more disk space, but for any machine set up for video editing disk space is not normally an issue.
However how do you add and modify the outline property of the object? Such as its darkness, color,and width. Is this a "toon" property or is it another property?
Those are all properties of the toon shader itself. |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 3:59am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Freaky42: The best way to do this is, as Bobbins suggested, rendering to 32 bit TGA files.
Any time I render something from trueSpace, I always go with an uncompressed(lossless) format. TGA is the way to go because not only is it lossless but you have the option to use RLE (run-length encoding). This is just a way for the file to record not every pixel, but if there's a 'run' of a certain color, it records the color and the amount (perfect where you have a background of the same color). For example, if I render to a 720x480 frame with BMP(bitmap - uncompressed) the frames will be over 1MB each. When rendering the same image to TGA w/ RLE - it's well under a MB but both frames would be identical in quality.
You can go with an uncompressed AVI format but then you have two problems:
#1: Size - Uncompressed AVIs are large
#2: Keying - Removing the background color is tedious and not nearly as clean as an alpha mask (32 bit TGA)
Some tips for rendering to TGA:
- Use a neutral background color (ie. RGB 128,128,128)
- If you have the option, "Pre-multiply" the TGA sequence against the background color it was rendered to. (After Effects gives this option) This will eliminate any 'halos' around the edges of the image.
Hope this helps! |
Post by Freaky42 // Mar 3, 2006, 5:56am
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Freaky42
Total Posts: 28
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Thank you Frank and Bobbins:D
Though I can't currently use this info where I'm at in the world I will be cataloguing it for future reference.
Frank you mentioned that you can save the Image sequence to .tga with (Run-length Encoding). How do I add the run-length encoding to the .tga files? Is it a simple output option or is there something more I have to do?:confused:
Thank you for your swift replies. I hope to gain more information from this venue in the future. |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 6:31am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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I did some test renders on a simple 24-bit 352x240 render of a box against a solid background and here are the results:
Uncompressed: 253,979 Bytes
Compressed: 6,560 Bytes
Quite a big difference, as the uncompressed simply writes each pixel to the file.
The drawback is apparently trueSpace doesn't use RLE when writing 32-bit TGA images. I just found out for myself by actually comparing a 32-bit TGA compressed against the same image, uncompressed. They were the same size. |
Post by Freaky42 // Mar 3, 2006, 6:41am
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Freaky42
Total Posts: 28
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:banana:
Ahh so much help in one day.
Thank you so much. When I get back in the states and finally get to get to use your product I will be happy to have such a informative and responsive community to support my efforts.:) |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 6:48am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Ahh so much help in one day.
Thank you so much. When I get back in the states and finally get to get to use your product I will be happy to have such a informative and responsive community to support my efforts.
That's just the way we roll.
:)
Lots of helpful folks in the tS community. |
Post by Norm // Mar 3, 2006, 7:15am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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hmmm .. in trueSpace7, you can now natively Render to File as .psd file. When you do this you can render everything in scene to sep layers that show up in the .psd when loaded into say PhotoShop. You can do this with the multiple frames if you wish.
I wonder if this would be considered another method to try.
ps: if you can access internet overseas, you could download trueSpace7 and play with it :) |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 8:31am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Multi-pass rendering to PSD would be good. However, I have yet to figure out how to get the sequence imported into After Effects properly. I can import it but not with the PSD layers on their own layer in After Effects. I assume this may also be a problem in other NLEs. |
Post by Alien // Mar 3, 2006, 8:40am
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Alien
Total Posts: 1231
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I don't own/use any Adobe progs, so I'm unsure if this'll be possible, but what about batch-converting the .PSDs to .TGAs? [or whatever format After Effects supports] |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 9:01am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Adobe After Effects does support PSDs, but the problem is getting the elements into separate layers. (ie. specularity on one layer, shadows on one layer, diffuse on one layer, etc...)
BUT I think it would be possible to - within Photoshop (using some type of batch method) - export the layers separately to 32-Bit TGAs with the alpha information in-tact.
Well...maybe not, now that I think about it, since the layers rely on a transfer method ("Soft Overlay" or "Screen", I forget) with a grey background on each one. (ie. no actual transparency on the layers, except for the shadow layer which has a mask) |
Post by Cayenne // Mar 3, 2006, 9:02am
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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@psd output.
Last time I tried this in premiere 6 I think that the psd sequence when imported to premiere and placed on a track the choice of which channel / layer in the psd was offered as an option by premiere to be used , I will revisit this as it was a long time back I tried this.
I can't remember if premiere offered to split each layer of the file automatically to one track. |
Post by frank // Mar 3, 2006, 9:07am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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I'll have to try to import into Premiere as well.
If it gives the choice of which layer from the PSD sequence to import, it would be no problem to repeat the import->sequence 4 or 5 times until all the layers are in. That sure beats working with each individual file.
Thanks, Paul! |
Post by Cayenne // Mar 3, 2006, 1:42pm
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Cayenne
Total Posts: 144
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I just tried it and the problem here with premiere 6 is that it asks for verification of each layer in each file in the sequence and it is anoying to say the least.
I would envisage an easier way for now would be to export the sequence using per feature and choosing just one parameter to single layer psd and pop it into its own bin.
I am not sure if alpha or other channels would need selecting for this, and also don't know how the sequence import would be handled , but it may be a better way of doing it.
I will look around to see if I can find a plugin for premiere which can split channels and layer to a track automatically, but don't hold your breath. |
Post by Freaky42 // Mar 3, 2006, 7:27pm
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Freaky42
Total Posts: 28
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ps: if you can access internet overseas, you could download trueSpace7 and play with it. :Norm
I really would like to but what we use here for keeping records in Iraq doesn't really support that kind of software. I don't have my own computer here,(I'm using a MWR military computer), either as it's in storage while I'm overseas:( But I will be monitoring the forums and gleening info as much as possible:o
Oh yes, I also read on your ideas to use the .psd, and some of the trouble you've had thus far. Interesting. I will have to make a note of this for future reference. |
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