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Exploding joints!
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Exploding joints! // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 26, 2008, 5:23am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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This evening I ran into a behaviour I've not encountered with tS animating before. I've attached a skele to my charcater and got him walking along using one of Mr Bones free BVH mocap files. Now I want to pose my guy coming to a standstill and looking around. Previously I've been able to do this using FK. Click dynapose, select a joint and set it's next position using the object widget.
This has worked well for me before (as an animation noob) but for some reason it is not working with my present scene. At the slightest touch on the object nav widget the joint explodes and swells right off the window. Fortunately, undo will bring it back but I'm unable to pose using FK :(
Any ideas as to what I'm doing wrong would be gratefully received. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 26, 2008, 5:33am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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That was a bug in the older versions of tS as well. |
Post by Norm // Mar 26, 2008, 7:05am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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I found when flipping skeletons on a character (yep I like to play with mr bones files:) ), is to first go inside character and delete any skeleton nodes.
Then I bring in a new skeleton file and attach skin to skel. At that point I find the problem you mention is not applicable. |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 26, 2008, 10:54am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I saw this in a movie once but it was a cigar that exploded. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 27, 2008, 12:28am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I found when flipping skeletons on a character (yep I like to play with mr bones files:) ), is to first go inside character and delete any skeleton nodes.
Then I bring in a new skeleton file and attach skin to skel. At that point I find the problem you mention is not applicable.
I must being a bit dense this week - probably too much chocolate at Easter. Norm are you saying I need to replace the skeleton? I've gone to a lot of trouble to set this particular skeleton up in this character in terms of correcting vertex assignments and weights. Replace the skeleton does not seem like an elegant solution at all! I'll do it if that's the only alternative but is this a problem with the tS bones, that specific BVH or was it something I did or didn't do when rigging this guy?
More importantly is there any way to avoid this behaviour? - it puts a heck of a crimp in my workflow if a joint will spontaneously explode half way through setting up an animation and can only be fixed by replacing the skeleton!
Thanks for the input.
Space - love the new avatar man! I don't scare easily but that movie gave me nightmares when I first saw it! |
Post by Norm // Mar 27, 2008, 6:41am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Start with a new scene and drag Crazy Bob into scene.
Now two ways to do this transfer as far as I can see:
1. Bring in one of the predefined skeletons from the collection in library.
it lines up with bob for most part.
attach skin to skeleton (bob already has one).
see how it plays out (it could be fine).
it could be problematic when you try to play the anim. if so see #22. Bring Crazy Bob in and this time go inside and delete the existing skeleton.
bring in a skeleton from library.
attach skin to skeleton.
this is how I would do it if #1 failed.So I was relating to this experience. I was seeing mesh and joints flying every which way sometimes. Real mess. So by removing the old skeleton, I was able to complete the skeleton transfer and manipulate the char ok.
fwiw |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 27, 2008, 8:03pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks for the detailed answer Norm - most appreciated.
As I'm using one of my own characters and I've set all the vertex weights up I'd really like to continue using the existing skeleton. My character has long hair and a beard which tS assigns to the shoulders and upper arms when attaching skin to skele.
I'm going to try a couple of work arounds when I start work on it later this evening - I guess if all else fails I'll just have to try a new skele.
Has anyone else experienced this exploding joint problem (yes I know you have to pick all the seeds out before you roll it:D)?
I'm still curious as to whether it's a trueSpace glitch, a user error or just something associated with that particular skeleton. Should it be regarded as a bug or is this a known problem or not?
Thanks in advance |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 28, 2008, 7:16am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well it seems the exploding joint issue only occurs if I scale my character after I've rigged him. Expanding the scene to fit the character seems to work better than shrinking the character to fit the scene. I ended up with a big scene but at least my joints no longer explode!
Yay!:D
Oh yeah, I took your suggestion on board too Norm and replaced the skeleton as well - thanks - it's been a long night! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 28, 2008, 9:10am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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That sounds like something the devs should look at Wizard. It's possible that it's already been addressed, I don't follow the animation side of things as much.
Glad you found a solution, I'm looking forward to seeing more Wizard animations. :D |
Post by tomasb // Mar 28, 2008, 11:12am
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tomasb
Total Posts: 261
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Well it seems the exploding joint issue only occurs if I scale my character after I've rigged him. Expanding the scene to fit the character seems to work better than shrinking the character to fit the scene. I ended up with a big scene but at least my joints no longer explode!
Yay!:D
Oh yeah, I took your suggestion on board too Norm and replaced the skeleton as well - thanks - it's been a long night!
Proportional scaling should work with 7.51. There are some issues with scale changing to skew and skew accumulation as anim does not keyframe skew but if you scale proportionally then skew should not be present after bones are rotated. Also, scale makes some problems in FK when you hit the joint limit (skew accumulation again).
This has been confirmed resolved for 7.6. |
Post by W!ZARD // Mar 28, 2008, 7:06pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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That sounds like something the devs should look at Wizard. It's possible that it's already been addressed, I don't follow the animation side of things as much.
Glad you found a solution, I'm looking forward to seeing more Wizard animations. :D
Thanks Jack - I was sure it was something I had done (or not done!) as the other animations I'd made worked so well. I re-opened one of the earlier scenes and noticed the difference in scale so I tried upscaling my new scene to match the Character and everything worked just fine.
This has been confirmed resolved for 7.6.Thanks tomasb - I think I understood what you said after reading it 5 times! I've never heard of skew accumulation but I get the gist of what you said. It's great to know it's been fixed:D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 28, 2008, 7:32pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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LOL Wizard, I used to feel that way whenever Tomas would give me an answer... :)
Sometimes I still scratch my head and go: :confused:
:D |
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