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Vista-64 support
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Vista-64 support // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by GoodFun // Mar 15, 2008, 6:39pm
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GoodFun
Total Posts: 3
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Hi there,
I've been using tS for quite a long time (since version 3), mostly for personal use. I've built a new machine a few month back and put Vista-64 on it as I needed the additional memory for a project I've been working on (I'm a software engineer). I've been having lots of issues getting tS 7.51 to run on this machine and most of the problems seem to be interface related in terms of drawing errors and such.
Does Caligari have any plans to support Vista and Vista-64 in particular? This OS has now been out for over a year and I would believe that is enough time for a software house to get their software stable on it.
This is my machine Config:
Q6600 @ 2.4GHz
ASUS Maximus SE Mobo
8GB of GeIL 1066MHz RAM
2x500GB WD SATA2 drives in RAID1
1x160GB WD SATA2 drive for downloads and temp space
XFX 8800GT AplhaDog 670MHz version
I'm running Vista-64 SP1 (though the problem also existed prior to SP1)
NVidia Drivers 169.44 Beta, though 169.25 showed the same issues
All the latest Chipset, Raid, and Soundcard drivers
All in all I'm very happy with how stable Vista-64 runs and with the horse power and RAM I have it actually runs very smooth. tS is about the only software I have left that doesn't play well with Vista-64 and that's a bit frustrating. As I've said, I believe that in the one year that Vista has been out now, a company at the level of Caligari should be able to get their software stable on the latest OS version they are producing software for.
I hope someone from Caligari can comment on this and maybe disclose the plans the company has in terms of OS compatibility.
Thanks
Marcel |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 15, 2008, 8:51pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I use Vista x64. There are a few UI glitches left to be stamped out, but TS is stable for me. I'm stuck with the 163.75 drivers for now though since those are the only TS friendly ones available for 7900 cards.
There are known issues with the 169.xx driver series and TS. Noko was able to get the 8800 series cards to work with TS with the newer drivers so that's probably your best bet. This site is usually the first to get their hands on the new beta drivers:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showforum=88
Last I heard I think he was using the 174.12 drivers. Don't forget to download the modded .inf file so you can install the drivers.
If that doesn't solve your problem, there is the "glow" workaround. Enabling the glow post effects works as a workaround for the issue.
Native 64-bit support is planned for version 8.0 according to posts made by Roman in his captain's blog thread. |
Post by Improv // Mar 16, 2008, 7:49am
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Improv
Total Posts: 0
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Does Caligari have any plans to support Vista and Vista-64 in particular? This OS has now been out for over a year and I would believe that is enough time for a software house to get their software stable on it.
Considering that Microsoft now owns Caligari, I would say the chances are very good that it will eventually have Vista 64 support. |
Post by GoodFun // Mar 16, 2008, 12:53pm
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GoodFun
Total Posts: 3
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I use Vista x64. There are a few UI glitches left to be stamped out, but TS is stable for me. I'm stuck with the 163.75 drivers for now though since those are the only TS friendly ones available for 7900 cards.
There are known issues with the 169.xx driver series and TS. Noko was able to get the 8800 series cards to work with TS with the newer drivers so that's probably your best bet. This site is usually the first to get their hands on the new beta drivers:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showforum=88
Last I heard I think he was using the 174.12 drivers. Don't forget to download the modded .inf file so you can install the drivers.
If that doesn't solve your problem, there is the "glow" workaround. Enabling the glow post effects works as a workaround for the issue.
Native 64-bit support is planned for version 8.0 according to posts made by Roman in his captain's blog thread.
Thanks for your suggestion, I'll see if that driver is going to resolve this problem.
As for Vista-64bit support coming in version 8, that's exactly the point of another user in the rant section, that obvious problems should get fixed on the current version and not on a future one... I'm not looking for cool new features, I just want to use the ones I've already paid for to work on the system I have... and even if people don't like Vista, it's the current installment of the Windows OS and any software currently on the market should be able to run on it...
Please don't take this as a rant against you... I very much appreciate your comment and will try your suggestions, I'm just frustrated that Caligari doesn't put more focus on getting their software stable instead of adding more features. If this situation doesn't change, then 7.51 was most likely the last version I will be using (or won't be using as it doesn't work on my computer). |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 16, 2008, 1:20pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I understand exactly how you feel. I have a TonePort from Line6 and there are no x64 drivers and the product refuses to install on any 64-bit OS. It actually pops up a dialog box telling you so. :mad:
I've posted on their forums and while the guys seem nice enough it's clear that 64-bit support isn't happening any *YEAR* soon. So basically as far as Vista goes, I bought a nice plastic paperweight... I almost sent it back, but the thing sounds amazing in XP and the Proteus X synth won't work in x64 either, so for now I'm stuck dual booting on the odd occasion that I actually try to write music.
Anyway, back to the point of your post. TrueSpace does work mostly fine on Vista x64 it's primarily issues that you are seeing are with the video driver and there's nothing really that Caligari can do about that. Infact those same problems show up on 32bit platforms with that driver.
What I was talking about with version 8.0 isn't 64-bit compatibility but 64-bit software. Taking a software from 32-bit to 64-bit depending on how it's coded can be a major re-write of pretty much everything. That hardly qualifies as a "bug-fix". Moving to a 64-bit technology is a needed advancement and it's something that can't happen until Model-side (the legacy code) is removed. So it's something that can't happen before 8.0 anyway.
This is something that's been discussed before but what I see that has changed since then is that more users are beginning to realize that to do professional quality renders (especially at print resolutions) you *must have* 64bit to get over the 2GB memory addressing problem. So for me and likely many others, it's now no longer an issue of 64-bit OS support, but rather 64-bit native software. ;)
Fortunately Roman has made clear that 8.0 will have a 64-bit version. :cool: |
Post by transient // Mar 16, 2008, 4:32pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I'm not looking for cool new features, I just want to use the ones I've already paid for to work on the system I have... and even if people don't like Vista, it's the current installment of the Windows OS and any software currently on the market should be able to run on it...
I don't think you can blame Caligari for not keeping up with some other company's release schedule. The same gripe is being expressed by leopard users that are being very demanding about compatibility.
It's a contradiction to demand greater stability from a product while dictating that it has a complete overhaul to suit a vocal minority. Really, I don't know anybody who is using 64 bit windows exclusively, and it might be years before this is really viable for many users.
I'm not entirely happy with 7.5 either, but it's unfair to bag Caligari for this issue. On the plus side, Microsoft now own Caligari, so you would expect the 64bit version of tS will be even better when it does arrive. |
Post by GoodFun // Mar 16, 2008, 8:13pm
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GoodFun
Total Posts: 3
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I don't think you can blame Caligari for not keeping up with some other company's release schedule. The same gripe is being expressed by leopard users that are being very demanding about compatibility.
It's a contradiction to demand greater stability from a product while dictating that it has a complete overhaul to suit a vocal minority. Really, I don't know anybody who is using 64 bit windows exclusively, and it might be years before this is really viable for many users.
I'm not entirely happy with 7.5 either, but it's unfair to bag Caligari for this issue. On the plus side, Microsoft now own Caligari, so you would expect the 64bit version of tS will be even better when it does arrive.
well, my point is that Vista has been out for over a year... getting it to work with 64 bit shouldn't be that hard... then again, I do most of my stuff in C# where 64bit compatibility is fairly easy to achieve... As Jack pointed out, most of the problems lay with the graphics card driver, and yes, nVidia not releasing new drivers for 3 month doesn't seem a very good thing either...
I don't think I'm overly vocal on this whole thing, as a software engineer, I just believe that stability of a product has to come before new features... and I don't quite always see that with Caligari. In their defense I have to say though that I love their product (when it works) and the fact that I'd rather use theirs than someone elses is a testimony of that... I just wish stability was higher on the list of priorities and that bug fixes were more frequent. |
Post by TomG // Mar 17, 2008, 7:30am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Have to say that tS is Vista compatible already. Vista 64 and 32 bit users have been using tS for over a year now. I'm on 32 bit myself, but naturally have been supporting customers over that time so have seen how 64 bit users are getting along.
NVIDIA drivers are a problem as noted. If there are interface redraw issues (any more specific info?), those could be driver related.
Naturally we will continue to work on all issues, whatever their source (from drivers to OS to just tS). If your problems are severe, my suggestion is to contact technical support directly - its always more responsive than the forums, since it is actively and constantly monitored (ie easy to see when a new email arrives as opposed to when a post appears on the forums) and it goes through our tracking system then too.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by transient // Mar 18, 2008, 6:50pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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well, my point is that Vista has been out for over a year... getting it to work with 64 bit shouldn't be that hard... then again, I do most of my stuff in C# where 64bit compatibility is fairly easy to achieve... As Jack pointed out, most of the problems lay with the graphics card driver, and yes, nVidia not releasing new drivers for 3 month doesn't seem a very good thing either..
I should have read your post more closely, but I thought you were complaining about native vista 64 support, not compatibility issues which I agree aren't welcome. Ignore me.:o |
Post by brotherx // Mar 20, 2008, 6:01am
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brotherx
Total Posts: 538
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well, my point is that Vista has been out for over a year... getting it to work with 64 bit shouldn't be that hard... then again, I do most of my stuff in C# where 64bit compatibility is fairly easy to achieve... As Jack pointed out, most of the problems lay with the graphics card driver, and yes, nVidia not releasing new drivers for 3 month doesn't seem a very good thing either...
At my work they are still using VC++ 6.0 ...the apps (a dozen or so) behave on Windows Vista just fine but the development machines can't be Vista... Visual Studio 6 won't compile the code and crashes like crazy.
When you try and port the code to 32 bit visual studio 2005, it breaks....completely - particularly if the code is using the MFC heavily.
Now, porting to 64 bit - that's a whole different issue. There's the whole hardware requirement and OS requirement and development software requirements (we're all pretty much running XP 32-bit and most people are still just using studio 6) just adds a new level of expense, learning curves and issues with legacy code. (virtual PC helps)
I remember porting a C# App from Net 1 to Net 2 taking a week and it pretty much compiled and ran without much changes (mostly winging about v2 changes) so imagine moving from a 10 year old compiler to the most up-to-date one and at the same time making the code 32- and 64-bit...It's probably pretty much like re-writing in C# (we're doing that with a couple of apps just now)
A couple of years isn't unreasonable for a huge application like truespace. |
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