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Vray Command fail
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Vray Command fail // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 12:41am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Ah, such is fate. Last image for my Little Cloud book and I can't bloody render it. All morning I have been rendering to screen and now it is setup I hit render to file, choose 5400x2700 .tga and hit render. Immediately get the Vray Command Failed error. I have tried as Jpeg and I am not trying a smaller render but I need this size and format and every other image worked. I just need this last one ...TODAY!
Tried restarting the PC, restarting tS, Bridge On, bridge Off...nothing. Only difference is this my laptop but it is Celeron M with 2GB Ram so it should manage the render even if it takes a while. I also got the same error on my main PC every few renders but a restart of tS soon solved it.
Any clues...anyone? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 29, 2008, 1:22am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Are you using caustics? Caustics eats up memory really quickly and can limit the resolution that you can render at. Open in taskmanager and check and see if you're running out of memory. If you're running out of memory the only thing you can do is change your scene/render settings or wait until TS and VRay go 64bit...
Also keep in mind that if your system only has 2GB of ram, that other applications in memory further limit the amount of usable RAM. |
Post by parva // Feb 29, 2008, 2:15am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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how far increase your swap drive?
Is the 2 gig memory fully consumed? |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 2:25am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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School use XP based laptop guys so I rarely mess with settings really. Definitely size based as it lets me render out 800x400 and 1600x800 no problem. It doesn't even start to render though...just an instant error message after the Targa options box...:D
Maybe I am pushing the laptop but it is pretty new and this is a relatively simple scene. Just GI and soft shadows-no HDRI or caustics.
Thank god this is the last image or I would have given up using Vray by now...not the best advertisement for Vray...:( |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 3:28am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I am not looking for a 'long term' fix here (ideal though it may be). Is there any workaround that will let me render this one image at this size no matter how long it takes? I really need the source image for tomorrow afternoon so I can start uploading the book pages...:o
EDIT: I got it to render at 3200x1600 but that is the max it will do...and it is taking forever. Is the laptop the real problem? It is currently using 100% CPU and 1.28GB memory but I have PS and explorer open too. |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 29, 2008, 3:43am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Puzzling indeed.
Test another format, bmp, png or jpg - see if that fails. Hate for you have to abandon the lossless tga, but might be a clue into what's going on.
btw, I got a failure when i tried to use VRAY to make a fly around on my MMC in AVI, which is quite poly heavy. It got to frame 7 and simply ran out of gas. I tried jpg, but aborted the process myself as there were no problems, so I'll re-attempt that with a compressed AVI and see if that works. |
Post by prodigy // Feb 29, 2008, 4:20am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Splinter
If you press render and Vray never start to render (Black screen), is cos you are over the memory limit.
Few tips..
1) Don't use AA *Adaptive it's ok (that's gonna release more memory)
IF you still having problems
Try to Save a 1024x768 GI calculation an then loadit for your large render..
That release another amount of memory and that will let you render at that size.
If you still with problems?
The last idea on my mind is start to reduce the render size, example
320*20 = 6400 // 240*20 =4800
Reduce the "20" to a lower number and try each number to get the hiest number as possible.. (try with 16 ~ 15~14....)
That brings you the largest render possible on your sistem
That was clear?? :confused:
:D
Other option is rendered on Workspace side with the bridge in off.. |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 5:24am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers guys, rendering at 3200x1600 at the moment and I can try a bigger one when I get home tomorrow on a 4Gb Dual core Vista machine...wanted to get this done today and it has been on 42% rendering for the last hour. It is when it hits the puddle part of the bucket render but it is just a glass texture....:(
Didn't matter what format I used; error message for anything more than 3200x1600... |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 29, 2008, 5:37am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Laptops are evil. |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 6:27am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Mine certainly is...stuck at 41% rendering for almost two hours before closing with a Vray render error (please save your work and close tS etc.)
It is that bloody puddle but there seems to be no way around it (no bad jokes please)...it is only a few puddles and splashes, hardly a crystal Taj Mahal!!
:(:(:mad: |
Post by Steinie // Feb 29, 2008, 6:34am
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Steinie
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I just can't figure out why you wouldn't render the puddle in another render and just combine later. Not worth a stroke.
(Photoshop IS used in the Book publishing industry...and allowed):rolleyes: |
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 29, 2008, 6:34am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Sounds like you ran out of memory mid render, Paul. :( |
Post by prodigy // Feb 29, 2008, 6:35am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Fast question..
Your render has hairs?
If yes, check if your render stuck when vray try to render those hairs..
If not.. don't Know :p |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 6:45am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Clever clogs; I hadn't gotten around to that yet. For the bubbles I had a subtle reflection in each bubble of the scene and that is not something you can easily do as a separate render. You might not see the details in the image on this site but you would in a 9" square 300dpi colour image.
Same here although I am starting to think it is not worth it in this image (or worth the stroke...;).
I will give it a try although I am near the end of the school day when I wanted to render it and off to the pub soon so will not give a s**t about it after a few pints...:D
Tomorrow is another day.
EDIT: It's funny this; I took everything out of the scene except the puddle and it still stalls at 42% rendering even on a render to screen...Mmmm, what is with the puddle?
EDIT2: I stripped elements of the puddle away to see what was causing the problems; it is the ripples which are geometry rather than a bump map. The splashes cause the render to pause a bit but the ripples are causing it to hanng...why, oh why can't it ever be simple.... |
Post by prodigy // Feb 29, 2008, 7:17am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I suggest send the Puddle to developers. Maybe they have hungry ;)
Glass and transparent shaders slow vray render a lot.. maybe that's the cause.. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Feb 29, 2008, 7:34am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Also you could try limiting the number of light bounces. Maybe try a max depth setting of 5 or so... |
Post by Tiles // Feb 29, 2008, 7:34am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Hmm, maybe you don't have the promised 2Gigs of your ram available. Shared memory ... ;) |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 29, 2008, 7:36am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Good point Steinie, Render the puddle separately.
VRay doesn't work well with trueSpace layers, so it become an exercise in scene adjustment. |
Post by Changa // Feb 29, 2008, 8:03am
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Changa
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Recently I render all my images (interiors and outdoor) with the following Vray settings for GI: Primary GI - Irradance 1.2-1.4, Secondary - Light Map 0.9 and Quality set to medium. Seems it works faster a bit . As for a memory... Maximum stable size -3200 x 2400 or something with AD.:( |
Post by splinters // Feb 29, 2008, 9:47pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers, I will give that a try later. |
Post by trueBlue // Mar 1, 2008, 7:13am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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I wonder if this would be helpful?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=5887&postcount=1 |
Post by splinters // Mar 1, 2008, 8:12am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Cheers Tru, but after a 3 hour+ render for a scene that only had the puddle in....I finally have it.
Dev's take note; there is something seriously wrong if a simple glass shader takes this long in Vray....:(
I will post the final image in a short while. |
Post by TomG // Mar 1, 2008, 9:33am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hard to say if something is "wrong" - it depends on the glass and the settings. Bear in mind that glass generates a LOT of rays - there is the simple reflection off the surface; then the simple trace of the first ray into the surface, bending as it goes; so far so good.
Then though you might have internal reflection. The ray hits one of the surfaces from the inside, then once again two rays are generated, one reflecting and one refracting. Now the reflected ray is likely to still be inside the object, and so will intercept the surface yet again, for another refletion and refraction.
And if you have ripples, bumps, and "sticking out bits" even a ray that leaves the object could well hit it again, finding one of your splashes, and so starting the process of spawning more rays once again.
With internal reflection on, high settings for reflectivity, a low threshold so that even low amounts of reflection are calculated, then you get into a heavy amount of calculations. I've seen LW brought down by this, eg with my own glass shader, the scene will render nicely til it hits the glass object, then slow to a crawl as all those extra calculations come into play.
So I don't think one can just leap in and say something is "seriously wrong" because perhaps it is quite correct, and is just doing all the requested calculations as it should based on your settings. It could be that perhaps there is an issue and it should render faster, but it could also be quite correct for it to take that long based on the settings, it would be impossible to say without testing.
I would change things like disabling internal reflections, raising the reflection threshold so that contribution from rays cuts off earlier and less rays are spawned, lowering reflectivity, even perhaps simplifying geometry if need be, adjusting refraction to a lower value so rays are bent less, enabling single sided so that rays hitting the inside of the object will not spawn more rays, etc.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by transient // Mar 1, 2008, 3:41pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I'm not sure about this, I'm afraid. One of vray's major selling points is it's speed. I've got other renderers that can render this kind of thing with ease, even on my puny pc, without leaking memory throughout the process.
I'm finding procedures like caustics, sss and fresnel to often be painfully long, or just crash, while using Shade and other apps there's no problems whatsoever.
Maybe what you say is true, but I sincerely hope that the Caligari team is having a close look at the performance aspects of Vray, and not dismissing problems like this as a settings issue.
Perhaps, if settings are the issue, Caligari could do some more testing and provide us with some recommendations on how to speed up renders like this, because I can't seem to find the sweet spot either. Either that, or maybe provide some realistic system specs to run vray properly so I can maybe upgrade my PC or buy something new that can handle it.
I know your just trying to help, but this kind of post is very worrying from a vray user's perspective. Don't take this criticism too harshly, I really want to like vray, but it's hard when even fundamental things don't seem to work properly. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 1, 2008, 3:54pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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I've experienced VRay hanging on me sometimes, especially if I turn HDRI off.
What I have to do is start a render in Lightworks, cancel it, then go back to VRay.
Works for me, don't know why, Vray just gets hung on a function and won't release it. |
Post by transient // Mar 1, 2008, 3:58pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I haven't seen that problem, it's definitely a weird one. At least now I now how to fix it if it does happen. |
Post by TomG // Mar 2, 2008, 8:27am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Nothing being dismissed as "just settings" - merely commenting that it is unfair to cast the dice and announce what the cause is (as Paul did, announcing it was definitely something wrong) when we just don't know.
I was just pointing out that it is possible to bring a renderer (any renderer) to a standstill with glass if the settings are wrong, as you can get a vast number of rays being generated. Without the actual scene and some specific investigation, announcing that "something is seriously wrong with V-Ray" is as wrong as announcing "It's just settings". No-one can tell at the moment, but assumptions should not be jumped to in either direction :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Mar 2, 2008, 9:24am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Yup, i'll take that on the chin. It was a comment born of frustration. But there is nothing I know of that warns users to avoid such situations. I can render this glass in lightworks with HDRI in minutes but in Vray (without changing settings) it takes hours if your machine can actually handle it.
Vray is sold on its speed as well as quality...if I bought a porsche and it ran slower than a cart horse on cold days I would not be too happy.
I think we both have a fair point Tom but I have been using Vray for a while now and I could not get a setting to work on this (fresnel or glass). A new user to Vray might have been mightily disappointed if they tried a scene in both engines (as we all have tried) and seen one brought to it's knees. I realise shaders and settings do not transfer so easily but we have all tried it for comparison.
Perhaps we can agree a middle ground and call it a 'unique problem' which is now sorted...:) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 2, 2008, 10:05am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I've found that many of the default settings for VRay in TS aren't very good. This is one area that could be improved quite a bit. The default HDRI settings for example are really odd for example -- 2x saturation? That's way too high. How many people just gave up on HDRI with VRay because the default settings gave such AWFUL results?
I think as we users find better settings that produce good results in the majority of situations, we need to note these so that they can be made the defaults for future versions. That's an easy change that could make the experiences of future users much more enjoyable. |
Post by transient // Mar 2, 2008, 2:45pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Maybe we can start a settings thread somewhere, for "average" scenes with decent amounts of gi. We could include shaders and light settings as well.
I'm not sure how much I can contribute, as I'm beginning to think vray is a bit futile on a machine with less than 2gb of ram. I've got 1.5 which is fine for other apps I use. |
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