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two layer textures
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two layer textures // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by rjeff // Jan 25, 2008, 7:24pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Ok this may not even be possbile. If not it should be. I am trying to get my SMC textured how I want it and well I can't figure it out. What I have is lettering ontop of the memory card reader. Now I can put text on it no problem, however I want it to have a different level of detail than the metal it is printed on... Now I tired to make to layers, one for the paint and one for a text graphic that has a alpha mask..well all that did was to make the whole thing transparent, expect for the text. I tired that decal tool, but well it keeps locking up and Truespace and to be honest it is not very good. You don't have alot of control over your decal. Can what I want done be done? Have a multi layer painted object so I can control the values of the letters seperate from the paint on the body? |
Post by kena // Jan 25, 2008, 10:44pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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You can alter the transparency of the layer you put the letters in if you are using lightworks. that is about all you can do though. Although if you fiddle with it, you can get a lot of good things going. I would do some examples, but I'm rendering a rather large poly-count scene just now. |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 3:00am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Since it is a relative flat object, you can use a plane with your text, the use a glass trader or simply use the text import as a transparency, so you can see through it. The image below uses a plane. I pulled the plane out so the visualization is clear. You can adjust lights to blue to make the box bluer.
Or, you can use PSD layers and then apply the text on a new layer in your 2D program. |
Post by spacekdet // Jan 26, 2008, 8:33am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Forward into the past, eh?
Those sound like tricks from the tS3 era when layering textures wasn't yet possible.
Multiple copies of geometry, smushing everything together into one texture in your 2D editor...ahh it's like the good old days all over again.
rjeff, if you are using tS6/ Lightworks/ Model side, you set the transparency on the second layer, not the first.
Here is a miniTut:
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Here's the initial setup. Base layer is red. Duplicate or create new second layer. Set it's color to 'Texture Map'. Make sure the second layer is selected and click and hold on the 'Color Blend : ...' icon, then choose 'Color Blend : mask alpha'.
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Now navigate to and choose your alpha map. It may or may not be the same image that you are using in the second layer's color channel; it depends on the effect you are after. Generally you need an image format that stores transparency info i.e., 32 bit, TGA, PNG, etc. In this example, all the white areas are going to end up transparent.
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With the material set up, click the Paint Face tool and then click the desired face on the object. Since the cube is created with default UV mapping, I'll have to re-map the particular face to get the correct effect.
Easy enough, right click the object and select the face.
With the face still selected, click the Planar UV Projection icon.
Now you can manipulate the UV cage icon and move/rotate/scale it using either the widget or the normal Object M/R/S tools.
Note that you are actually moving the UV map, not the face. To apply the UV map, be certain to hit the Space Bar or click the Object Tool icon.
You could also UV map the face prior to painting it if desired, but it's easier to line up if the texture has already been applied.
This also works on a selected group of faces if needed.
This tutorial is for tS 6.x or Model side of tS7.
For tS7 Workspace aficionados and layering textures, 'Everything Old Is New Again'! |
Post by kena // Jan 26, 2008, 10:34am
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Yeah.. that is what I was taling about with the transparency. |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 11:05am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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heh Spacekadet, some tricks never die. :D
I think what he was having a problem with is having a metal base covered by a transparent layer with some text on it, and not having the metal base details show up through the transparency.
Personally, I would have booleaned the cube or whatever object to double wall it and kept the drill. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
The way I understand layers in trueSpace is that they are somewhat limited. You can't turn them off nor can you give them attributes that are dramatically different from the top layer in order to get the full spectrum of reflection, refraction and etc.
That's why I went old school. heh
I know it can be done, it's just my brain was in old school mode. As seen here in the image below with the pine cone on an transparent top layer with the bump map on the metal layer. |
Post by spacekdet // Jan 26, 2008, 12:24pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Good points, but I think I can help expand your understanding of layers.
The first image shows that you can indeed turn layers on or off.
You only have to click the 'eyeball' icon to toggle layer visibility- if the eye is 'hidden', then so is the layer.
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You also are not limited in how materials can display varying amounts of reflective properties by utilizing what we just learned about alpha mapped colors.
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Create/ Duplicate a new layer and open the Reflectance channel.
In this example, I've set the base layer to Caligari Metal and twiddled the parameters.
Now select Layer 2 and change the Shader to Caligari Phong.
Set the parameters to different values.
Now the fun part: just like choosing an alpha map, you can use a bitmap to mask areas of the reflectance channel.
In Layer 2, Click and hold the 'Reflectance Blend : ...' icon and choose 'Reflectance Blend : mask alpha'.
(Much like I set the alpha map in the Color channel in the earlier example)
Navigate to and choose any desired bitmap.
Both greyscale or 32 bit alpha images work great.
It will vary the amount of the reflectance parameters visible on the layer beneath according to the light and dark areas of the mask image.
It helps to have an image with a lot of contrast.
Obviously, if both reflectance channel parameters/shaders are exactly the same, you won't see any difference. The key is setting different parameters and/or having a different type of Reflectance Shader in each layer.
This technique also works with the Bump Shader channel, BTW.
See? it's a snap once you know how. |
Post by Stem // Jan 26, 2008, 12:55pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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When I am applying text onto an object, I always think that the background may show through, for me, it is a case of how the letters have been made,.. such as if they have been made with a stamp, as usually I see the letters blend rather than fully cover.
I have been playing with making some plants, so forgive the fact my example is print on a leaf. |
Post by rjeff // Jan 26, 2008, 3:06pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Thanks for all the help guys.. Let me clear up exactly what I want. On my USB drive is the lettering on top, These leters are shiny, howerver they are not reflective. The metal of the unit is. What I want is to apply the letters to the metal, and be able to set the reflective, shiny ect. values of the letteing to be different than that of the metal body. |
Post by kena // Jan 26, 2008, 3:08pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I would use boolean subtraction then. |
Post by rjeff // Jan 26, 2008, 3:17pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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not really sure how you mean Kena? I don't want to "cut" the letters into the drive..just have them "printed" to it |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 26, 2008, 4:19pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Spacekdets mini tutorial - which is excellent by the way - looked exclusively at the colour channel. What he described there with regard to using an alpha map to control the colour distribution works in exactly the same way in BOTH the bump channel and the reflectance channel.
This means you can have not only a simple colour but also different bump maps and different reflectance layers.
The first pic shows the first layer, with it's own unique colour, bump and reflectance settings. (2 other layers turned off for illustration purposes).
The second pic shows the material with the second layer activated - note how the alpha map controls the distribution of not just the colours but also the bump and reflectance channels. Here I've used the same alpha map for all 3 channels but you can create interesting materials by using different alpha maps if you wish.
The third pic shows all three layers activated and again the distribution of colour, bump and reflectance is determined by the alpha maps. Note that the alpha map for the reflectance channel has been lightened a little to allow some of the reflectance from the lower layer to 'grin' through the lettering in the top layer to create a 'thinning' effect.
Creating materials like this using LW ME is one of the most fun things about tS IMO. I would say 80% of the textures I use in my scenes are layered like this in some way or another.
Hope this helps |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 26, 2008, 4:23pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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And here's a pic showing the material applied to a model...... |
Post by Stem // Jan 26, 2008, 4:28pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Thanks for all the help guys.. Let me clear up exactly what I want. On my USB drive is the lettering on top, These leters are shiny, howerver they are not reflective. The metal of the unit is. What I want is to apply the letters to the metal, and be able to set the reflective, shiny ect. values of the letteing to be different than that of the metal body.I am not sure how this can be done in the later versions yet, (I would of thought it was), going back to old school (as mentioned) using TS 4 it was easy to add layered reflection with mask to get what you are attempting.
I need to play more with TS7.5 as they have complicated this.
EDIT: I see wizard as posted the way to go.
I have just noticed the reflectance blend option at the top of reflectance, I need new glasses. |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 4:29pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Okay Wizard, now put red letters on a shiny, reflective metal surface and see if the red letters show up well lit and independently as shiny as the metal.
I think he wants something like this, but not sure. |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 4:46pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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The problem I have with the letters on my image is that they are not crisp. They are fuzzy and blurry as well as faded out.
This is with 4X anti-aliasing. |
Post by spacekdet // Jan 26, 2008, 5:30pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I did cover this in my last posts.
First color, then reflectance masking.
If I was grading you guys on reading comprehension...well, let's just not go there! 8^P
jamesmc, be sure your text texture and alpha mask images do not have the 'flt' (filter) checkbox ticked. Having it checked will soften the texture and smear the edges of your mask. I'd recommend a pure black and white image for your text mask with filter off for maximum crispness. |
Post by Stem // Jan 26, 2008, 5:42pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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I think he wants something like this, but not sure.It sounds more like he wants the background metal to reflect, but not the lettering:- |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 6:07pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Ah, the flt check box was the only thing I was missing. I re-rendered and the text came out crisp. Thanks Spacekdet!
I always put the color/shader in first btw. :D |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 26, 2008, 6:13pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I did cover this in my last posts.
First color, then reflectance masking.
If I was grading you guys on reading comprehension...well, let's just not go there! 8^P - erm, what do you mean? :p
My apologies Space, you did indeed cover the reflective shader as well, my bad.
rjeff, perhaps you could find a photo of the type of thing you are after and we can get a clearer idea of what you are after?
Okay Wizard, now put red letters on a shiny, reflective metal surface and see if the red letters show up well lit and independently as shiny as the metal.
What, like this? |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 26, 2008, 6:16pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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That's some nice aluminum foil there Mr. Wizard!
Ya, that's what I meant. thanks! |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 12, 2008, 4:06pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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Great thread and well done to Spacekdet and Wizard for providing some really good explanations and examples. I have been using multilayered textures for a quite a while now but I still picked up a couple of good tips here. Many thanks. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 13, 2008, 3:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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No problemo - it's nice to know people still read this stuff and get some value from it. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 13, 2008, 5:34am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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My pleasure Wizard. I'm always amazed at just how much knowledge is buried away in all these old threads. The reason I add to the thread is not only to personally thank the authors for taking the time to share their wisdom but also give the thread a bump so those with less time to search through them all can also benefit. |
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