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Vray material question
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Vray material question // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by andras // Jan 13, 2008, 1:58am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hi everybody!
Will it possible in the future to 3D studio max vray.mat file converts into Caligari Vray material file? (I hope you understand my question):) |
Post by splinters // Jan 13, 2008, 2:44am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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As far as I am aware, the max libraries are not compatible with Vray for tS as they only share the same SDK not the same library system.
Then again, I never fail to be amazed by what users come up with to get round these problems so you never know. |
Post by parva // Jan 13, 2008, 2:56am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Not possible due to the fact that Caligari Vray don't use Vray materials (the Vray powered materials like used in 3ds).
It would be possible if a (Vray) Standalone Renderer is used with a unified material system but convertion from one program to another is in my eyes not possible.
What you can do is to convert material internal a program from one render engine to another. |
Post by prodigy // Jan 13, 2008, 5:47am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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My oppinion about this, is not possible due nobody has created a conversor ;)
Think on this,
I assume Max and Caligari has the same sdk. :rolleyes:
Materials must be created on the basis of Vray materials :rolleyes:
My first impression is "why not??"
I think the only ones able to create a conversor (if that is possible) is caligari who understand both plataforms and if mat materials are open to understand what sais.
Who knows :D |
Post by andras // Jan 13, 2008, 7:04am
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andras
Total Posts: 111
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Hello!
"I think the only ones able to create a conversor (if that is possible) is caligari who understand both plataforms and if mat materials are open to understand what sais."
I think this thesis too, Prodigy.
But my opinion is it possible by ChaosGroup because of it do the both plugin for 3ds and TS, too. is'nt it? :confused:
and another question according to my previous question:
Is the max V-ray materials in 3ds are more efficient then in TS ? or both material-type has other architecture because of program-engine? |
Post by prodigy // Jan 13, 2008, 12:16pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Andreas, Ts Vray 1.52 materials are becoming powerfull since we have now layered shaders, that open a very wide range of new materials, and the diference is visible..
I took your comments as something positive since you have a good point.
We need to build a vray Material Library for Truespace users.. :cool:
Realy i like very much to create materials, and i've created a lot of them, but as i always need diferent materials for each project i never use old materials, but that doesn't means other users can use it.. :)
Let's see what's happend.
Regards |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jan 13, 2008, 3:46pm
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
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Ts Vray 1.52 materials are becoming powerfull since we have now layered shaders
Really? I must have missed something. How do you get layers in Vray (workspace)????? |
Post by Steinie // Jan 13, 2008, 4:24pm
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Steinie
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I caught that one myself. Maybe a slip of the tongue...;) |
Post by prodigy // Jan 13, 2008, 4:28pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Sorry guys, i mean Mapped shaders. But for me is amost the same thing :D
With mapped shaders im able to do anything. ;) |
Post by parva // Jan 13, 2008, 11:49pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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Hello!
"I think the only ones able to create a conversor (if that is possible) is caligari who understand both plataforms and if mat materials are open to understand what sais."
I think this thesis too, Prodigy.
But my opinion is it possible by ChaosGroup because of it do the both plugin for 3ds and TS, too. is'nt it? :confused:
and another question according to my previous question:
Is the max V-ray materials in 3ds are more efficient then in TS ? or both material-type has other architecture because of program-engine?
*.mat is 3ds material library - I see no way without a cooperation with autodesk to create a conversion and even then, like I said, 3ds and truespace vray are different.
As far as I understand it, Chaos Group has nothing to do with the integration of vray into ts, except maybe some special help here and there.
ts Vray based upon the Vray materials yes but they are not functional like the original Vray powered materials in 3ds (or other plugins).
They miss features and are not compatible.
The fact is, full featured Vray costs 799€ and is available for 3ds, Maya (beta), Rhino, Sketchup and Cinema4d.
Personally I would prefer a Standalone Renderer, or you had to put the full bucks for each application. Nonsense in my eyes :D |
Post by prodigy // Jan 14, 2008, 2:36am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Im not 100% Agree Parva :D
Here a conversor from Vray to Maxwell (http://www.vizdepot.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5949)
Here a conversor from PSD (photoshop) to Vray Mat - Max Mat (http://www.preset.de/2007/0329/psd2mat/)
Cinema 4D to Vray mat (http://www.kraphik.com/tutorials.html#vrayalpha)
Maybe im still wrong but,
Why you think it's not possible create a conversor to vray mat to truespace mat?
:confused:
Internaly or not internally i think a conversor is totally posible.
We only have to have a someone with enough programming skills and.... what can i say.... .... yes.. patience.. :D |
Post by Steinie // Jan 15, 2008, 3:37am
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Steinie
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I hope you guys do share your vray Material Library with us. I know Parva had posted for 7.6 but that link is now dead.
With all the programmers using this forum you would think one might be interested to see if a VRAy converter was even possible. |
Post by prodigy // Jan 20, 2008, 3:48am
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prodigy
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I think the best person to answer this at this point is SIW who knows internaly how tSvray works.. ;) |
Post by SiW // Jan 22, 2008, 3:23pm
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SiW
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Obviously I'm not going to say anything that breaches confidentiality, but I do want to clear one thing up. A few people have said words to the effect of "I can do so-and-so in V-Ray for max, why can't I do it in V-Ray for tS?" with the implication that Caligari isn't using the renderer to its fullest. Well it's not like that, because when you license V-Ray as a developer, you're not actually licensing a renderer, it's more like you're licensing the tools to build a renderer.
To elaborate, look at Renderman, with which I may be familiar ;) Whether you're going from trueSpace + dribble or Maya + 3DFM, you have access to the same renderer features because the renderer itself is the same. Not so with V-Ray; there really is no "full V-Ray", just different renderers built with the same tools. It just so happens that some of them are made by the same people who made the tools!
It's an interesting way of working, though I don't think it lends itself well to instant gratification. I do believe it will ultimately lead to a much better renderer integration in trueSpace.
All this might lead you to think I'm saying it's impossible to convert from the max .mat materials. Yes and no! As parva points out, .mat is a proprietary autodesk format, I'm not aware of any library to read these outside of max. Any converter would have to work inside max itself. But as far as being able to duplicate the materials themselves, that would be entirely possible, if Caligari devoted some time to copying the max V-Ray behavior. I'm not sure that's always time spent wisely however, and this is speaking as someone who has spent several years trying to duplicate materials between various renderers. |
Post by prodigy // Jan 22, 2008, 7:41pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Thanks Siw, very informative :) |
Post by parva // Jan 23, 2008, 12:11am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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but the fact is that truespace Vray don't follow the vray settings, means if I work with Vray for Rhino I have no problems to recreate the materials from Vray for 3ds there it use the same workflow and settings.
This is impossible with Vray for trueSpace. Not speaking about a direct automatic converted material but even to convert it manually is (with exception) not possible.
I know the price is not the same and so the features and maybe Caligari never want to achieve a 1:1 adaption but this brings confusion if the name Vray is used there everyone implicitly guess it's similar or same with Vray for 3ds.
I also don't think that this will make the Renderer to a better integration.
A separate Renderer yes, which "based upon" Vray.
If I buy a Porsche, I expect a Porsche not a Ford chassis with a Porsche engine. ;) |
Post by stan // Jan 23, 2008, 4:46am
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stan
Total Posts: 1240
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I know the price is not the same and so the features and maybe Caligari never want to achieve a 1:1 adaption but this brings confusion if the name Vray is used there everyone implicitly guess it's similar or same with Vray for 3ds.
I also don't think that this will make the Renderer to a better integration.
A separate Renderer yes, which "based upon" Vray.
If I buy a Porsche, I expect a Porsche not a Ford chassis with a Porsche engine. ;)
when vray was first advertised for truespace [on a postcard sent by mail] they said we are getting an $795 renderer for $199 [regular price $299], so why shouldn't we expect the same quality renderer which is not what we have..bug fixes are not forthcoming either as glass with transparent shadows worked in the first releases then was broken for ts7.5 and still is not working almost a year later.. |
Post by SiW // Jan 23, 2008, 7:27am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Before continuing I want to stress that while I did work on V-Ray for trueSpace, anything I say is my own personal opinion and doesn't necessarily reflect Caligari's policy.
I think one key point here parva is that - and I'm sure you'd agree - you are not like the majority of the trueSpace userbase. You use a lot of different applications, and a lot of different renderers. It would greatly benefit you to be able to move data and materials between them. I would argue though that tools for trueSpace users should be tailored to trueSpace users, and thus far that has been the philosophy behind the V-Ray implementation in my mind. If you go that route, you have certain restrictions in how you present things lest you alienate people. Perhaps that will change in the future as trueSpace evolves, but the overall theme of trueSpace 7 is trying to introduce new workflow while still trying to please people who want the traditional way of working. As a small company, Caligari has to manage its resources very carefully to try and cover all the bases.
I will say one thing though, I've worked in this industry now for well over a decade and I've never worked with any company who cares as much for individual user satisfaction as Caligari. So V-Ray complaints are heard, and I'm sure they'll be addressed as soon as is manageable. |
Post by transient // Jan 23, 2008, 1:46pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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I think it's pretty obvious to anyone that has used quality renderers in other applications (not just vray) that vray for TS needs to be seriously looked at by Caligari. Bugs, laggy materials, memory leaks when rendering intensive scenes, all of these are bad for TS's image imo.
That's not being harsh, it's really just telling it as it is. The current bugs have been there for too long - you would never get away this in a major app. Hopefully in the next Captain's Blog we'll get news that vray is getting a serious overhaul, and maybe not so much about speculative sideshow stuff like collaboration.
The potential is definitely there. It seems to have the same lush output that other vray incarnations have, just nowhere near the felixibility and, as previously stated in this thread, it's broken. |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 23, 2008, 2:41pm
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jamesmc
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oops wrong thread |
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