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Alright...how do I make this glow?
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Alright...how do I make this glow? // Archive: Tech Forum
Post by Tugar // Oct 12, 2007, 6:14pm
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Tugar
Total Posts: 68
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I'm trying everything my newbie self can think of. I need the warp nacelle to emit some light. Not a huge amount but the red bussard collector would be nice. |
Post by trebs // Oct 12, 2007, 9:44pm
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trebs
Total Posts: 62
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It depends which version of tS you are using. If it's tS4/5, then some transparency shader techniques would be good, adding some mixed ambient light. Maybe even place some small lights around the area to make the light effect.
Later versions have light emitting shaders, you could paint the surfaces with that effect. |
Post by Tugar // Oct 13, 2007, 1:34am
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Tugar
Total Posts: 68
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I'm using 6.6 Honestly I haven't gotten through half of the tutorials. I just wanted to dive in the deep end. :D |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 13, 2007, 4:17pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi Tugar,
Have you tried making the material into a material light, so that it projects it's color onto nearby surfaces? That plus translucent material like Trebs mentions or using a glass like material will probably do it.
Another way is to add point lights set to the color of the object to fake the emitted light.
I'd recommend finding a reference image that has the effect you are looking for so that you can better figure out what it is you want to duplicate. :)
Sometimes the easiest way to handle glow is to just paint it on in a paint program. ;) |
Post by dave_k // Oct 14, 2007, 4:11am
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dave_k
Total Posts: 81
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If you want to spend the time and aggravation, you can use a colored local light reflecting off a glass plane with a gradient alpha applied.
You will want to apply this effect after you have your scene view finalized. If you change your viewing angle, the glow effect will need to be dedone.
You will also need to fuss with your overall scene lighting since the glass plane will reflect ANY light in the scene.
Probably the best way has already been addressed by Jack. Use a paint program. |
Post by prodigy // Oct 14, 2007, 5:07am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Here are few examples to make lights with 6.6
First set the material with Luminance in 1 and Difuse in 0.
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Example 1)
That example has a local light inside the red object. * you must disable inside the render options *Cast Shadows * Recive Shadows
Example 2)
Copy the red object, expand a bit and add transparency to the shader (example 0.5) that create a fake glow effect.. ** If you add a local light inside remember disable cast and recive shadows in both objects..
Example 3)
Plain shader with Luminance ~ 1 and Difuse ~0 -- *No light emission
Example 4)
Same Lum and Difuse but with Add Material Light emission.
Enable Use material Light, change the intensity depending your needs and if you like can enable shadows..
Conclusion,
Best quality? -- Material Emission but longer render times.
high quality and best speed render? -- Add local light inside the red object. |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 14, 2007, 8:49am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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How about yet another method?
Let's try using a volumetric light to make your engine glow.
In this simple example is a spotlight inside the hollow cone.
Select the light and turn on shadowcasting, volumetrics, and set falloff to squared. Note that by right-clicking the light it now displays a green cage that represents how far it 'shines' before it starts to fade. You can click and drag on this cage to further limit or extend the amount of 'glow'. The green circle on the fat end of the spotlight controls how sharp the edge of the light beam is- click and drag the circle in towards the center to soften the edges of the beam- dragging it to the edge of the spotlight makes the edges of the beam sharper. To see volumetrics, you'll have to turn them on both in the individual light properties and in the scene render properties. Use Area Render or Render Scene to check progress. Advanced Volumetrics are generally faster and have more options to play with than Simple. Right Click the Adv. Vol. icon in Render Scene Options to get the parameter panel. Dark backgrounds obviously show them off better.
Start with the settings I have displayed here and tweak to your liking.
The advantages to volumetrics is that they can be occluded by objects in front of them, unlike the per-light 'Glow' effect (by using Lens Flare/Glow settings per light) which shine right through your objects. The disadvantage is that they can be slow if you have certain parameters set like excessive noise, etc.
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Stan also has a fine Flash tutorial regarding volumetrics here. (http://www.stansight.com/tutorials.html) |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 14, 2007, 12:09pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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What the heck, it's raining out so here's some more!
Now let's try it with a Local Light rather than a Spotlight.
This will give you more of a spherical glow effect.
Note that I've bumped the Intensity higher than the slider allows. To do this, right click on the Intensity slider and enter a higher numeral in the panel.
Also note how small I've scaled the green falloff cage.
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Next, I've deleted the local light and reintroduced the two spots, then added some noise by enabling the Turbulent Density Shader. Right click the density shader box for more options, left click to switch to a different shader. This is a good way to add an additional color and breakup the light beams for a more random, subtle effect.
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Now, here's all three at once, without any noise:
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And all three, with noise:
(here I've also turned up Density contrast and enlarged the falloff cage on the Local light.)
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(My apologies to the dialup brigade for the size of the images) |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 15, 2007, 6:13pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Might as well do one more method.
Use glow/ lens flare post process to simulate the engine glow.
Select a light and in the light properties, select 'Lens Flare Effect for the light'
Also in Render Options, left, then right click 'Glows and Lens Flare Effects'
The Post Process Editor window opens. This will render the currently selected view and allows you to adjust parameters and see a quick pre-render of the effects. You can also use it to set Depth of Field and Tone Mapping Effects, but for now we'll just look at setting up a glow.
Try starting with the settings illustrated here.
Note that unlike volumetrics, (which I've toggled off here to better show the glow) the light must be visible from the camera for the glow effect to show.
Adjust parameters to your liking, clicking inside the PPE to show changes.
When you're happy, Render Scene as usual.
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Once again, apologies for the image file size.
I've included the scene file for further dissection.
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EDIT: Note: For some reason the scene file throws up a 'bad input data' error message when opened with a double-click. Instead, open tS first and use the File/Load/Scene method. Not sure what causes the problem, but thanks to Denbo for supplying the solution. |
Post by SiW // Oct 16, 2007, 6:25am
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SiW
Total Posts: 298
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Don't forget the post-process glow and bloom in coolpowers 4 / freecp. I think CK did a post-process glow, too. |
Post by prodigy // Oct 16, 2007, 6:35am
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Space you beat me with your examples.. :) good work! |
Post by dave_k // Oct 16, 2007, 6:50am
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dave_k
Total Posts: 81
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Prodigy and Spacekdet, you both beat me! I've learned a lot from both of you. Now I can quit wrestling with my "Light and Glass Object" technique I've been dragging around since TS 5. :) |
Post by Tugar // Oct 16, 2007, 9:23am
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Tugar
Total Posts: 68
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Thanks all for great answers. I'll try them out and post the results. Thanks again. |
Post by rjeff // Oct 17, 2007, 10:37am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Here is my issues with TS. Things that should be easy to do and standard in the program are not. One is a simple glow. Why can't you just select the object you want to glow and it glow. You could then set the color, spread and density of that glow and it be done in real time. Also how about real time lensflare ..there is a novel idea. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 17, 2007, 11:05am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Hi rjeff,
It's not quite that simple. Real glow and ambiance is caused by light diffusing in the air. In 3D renderers the space between polygons is treated effectively as vacuum. The only exception to this is SSS, and we all know what kind of render time hit that is!
Basically all 3D renderers have to make compromises and use "cheats" to simulate or approximate realistic lighting. So what you would really be asking for would be to pick a particular cheat and make it standard. But I think that would have it's own problems since different techniques would work better in different situations.
One the most important things I had to learn in 3D is that perfect is the enemy of good enough. While it's interesting to try and solve things in "physically accurate" ways, it's much quicker and usually produces better results visually to just fake them so they look the way you wanted in the first place.
Another thing to consider is that as TS becomes more "pro" and features become more powerful we will need to get used to having more complex tools that expect the user to have a better understanding of how light and materials work.
VRay with GI definitely is the easiest way to create simple and beautifully rendered lighting solutions, but even that requires you to learn a fair bit about lighting and how it works. |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 17, 2007, 4:12pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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You could then set the color, spread and density of that glow and it be done in real time. Also how about real time lensflare ..there is a novel idea.
It pretty much is this way... the object you select just happens to be a light.
You can also use one of the shader-based solutions to make any object glow.
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't tS7 have real-time bloom effects available?
Using the tS6.6 Post Process Editor it pretty much is real-time lensflare/ glow control...at least the preview is. The PPE is scalable if you need it larger.
If the PPE didn't make it into tS7 it might be a good suggestion to add it back in.
The gist of my earlier 'novel' length posts was that there is more than one way to get a glow on, and it will depend on your particular situation which one will work out best.
Need it fast? do it in your 2D program as a post-op.
Just need a basic, consistent per-light glow? Use the native tS tool.
Have time to wait? Use volumetrics or material emmision. |
Post by Cthulhu // Oct 17, 2007, 4:41pm
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Cthulhu
Total Posts: 48
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Reinforcing Spacekdet's earlier post, I remembered this from the old forum:
http://forums.caligari.com/discus/messages/1578/8422.html? |
Post by Tugar // Oct 18, 2007, 12:10pm
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Tugar
Total Posts: 68
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Here's my first try. I got the nacelles to glow a bit but made this one quite by accident. |
Post by Cthulhu // Oct 19, 2007, 7:58pm
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Cthulhu
Total Posts: 48
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Looking good. I was watching Akira the other day and remembered when I saw your picture how the taillights of the motorcycles in the beginning of the movie left streaming motion trails after them. Is there a way to do that in tS? I remember there's a motion blur option somewhere, but forgot where it is. I thought that would look cool, with your ship moving through space with those trails behind it.
An example I found:
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Post by jamesmc // Oct 19, 2007, 8:35pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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That red streaming light effect is what happens when you take a photo at night of automobile headlights with a delayed timer.
Unsure how one would do it trueSpace. It would be an interested effect though. Looks like a job for a scripter to me. :) |
Post by rjeff // Oct 21, 2007, 9:43am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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how would one go about making a neo tube to glow evenly? I might need this info. |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 21, 2007, 10:09am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Number of ways. First, simple and dirty method; use the constant shader, job done.
Nicer method - paint tube colour required with a glass/transparant shader. Paint the back face(s) pure white with the constant shader. Place a series of low level omni lights just behind the object set to the same colour as the tube to simulate the glow.
Alternatively, a more 'lightsabre' method - thin tube with the white constant shader. Slightly larger diameter tube around it painted with transparancy and the colour you want. Repeat that last tube several times, making it slightly larger each time and increasing the transparancy on ach one. This'll imitate the fade.
There's other methods and enhancements like post process glows (the CP one is superb), etc, but that will hopefully give you something to go on. |
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