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WIP 001 - Vray Sperimentation
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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
WIP 001 - Vray Sperimentation // Work in Progress
Post by cnicolapc // Feb 16, 2006, 6:53am
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cnicolapc
Total Posts: 26
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VRay sperimentation incomplete 001 |
Post by parva // Feb 16, 2006, 9:27am
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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good lighting so far :)
ähm, the proportions are a bit weird and the position of the washbasin. |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 16, 2006, 9:46am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Fire your ceramic tile installer.
The bidet (?) appears to have a regular faucet fixture... or maybe that's for the kids to wash their hands in? Perhaps a Doggie drinking fountain?
I'll agree with Parva... the proportions are strange- big room, big tiles, small fixtures.
Keep going. |
Post by cnicolapc // Feb 16, 2006, 10:49am
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cnicolapc
Total Posts: 26
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This is Wip 2. Thanks for your advise.
Acchh!! My English is Bad. |
Post by cnicolapc // Feb 16, 2006, 11:22am
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cnicolapc
Total Posts: 26
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The bidet is traditionally used in our country to wash our bottom part after have used the wc!....
Country that you visit, tradition that you find... |
Post by frank // Feb 16, 2006, 12:14pm
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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cnicolapc: Looking good! I agree with parva and spacekdet on the proportions. Other than that, way to go!
Keep the updates coming!
Country that you visit, tradition that you find.
...and it differs even more between various parts of that country. For instance - where I'm from, the back porch is often used for doing #1.
:) |
Post by chrono // Feb 16, 2006, 12:25pm
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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Yeah everythings outta proporations. That floor tiling is HUGH! More then 16 inchs that's for sure! You need to re-establish your sizes before moving on.
Oh and since this is TS7 having only textured floors is EXETREMELY unimpressive, even with normals mapping. TS has always handled large polygon count scenes well and frankly with the new tools, no user of TS7 has a valid excuse for not having the tiles in polygonal brushed form. The same can be said for ANY surface that has a natural texture to it. |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 16, 2006, 7:57pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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"Oh and since this is TS7 having only textured floors is EXETREMELY unimpressive, even with normals mapping. TS has always handled large polygon count scenes well and frankly with the new tools, no user of TS7 has a valid excuse for not having the tiles in polygonal brushed form. The same can be said for ANY surface that has a natural texture to it."
I don't know what this means - 'polygonal brushed form?' - but I do know that an artist does not require any 'valid excuse' other than that's the choice that was made. Art is about choice of expression and should NEVER require an excuse, valid or otherwise. That's why it's called 'freedom of expression' and 'artistic licence'.
I agree with other comments about the size of tiles - I also suspect that from an interior design perspective you should avoid the use of diagonal floor tiles when combined with horizontal/vertical wall tiles, particularly if they are the same colour.
The lighting looks pretty good to me though - keep working this image, it's got promise. |
Post by chrono // Feb 16, 2006, 9:17pm
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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7's procedural shaders can displace geometery as can soft selected brush form. Rendering depth physically with geometery and not shader or post-op processing. ALL of which is known through the brouchure, manual, and the hundreds of postings about 7's features. Something that "could've" been in 4.3.
Artists use the best tools for their desired results and if a piece isn't of good quality then the artist can only blame their lack of talent. Not using the best tools for their desired results equates to poor work and the artist blaming their tools instead of where it squarely rests their lack of talent. So an 'artist', only the arrogant suggest that they are artists, doesn't have any excuse for not going to thier abilities limits or their programs.
Vray is a high quality canvas and should be treated as thus, period. |
Post by parva // Feb 16, 2006, 11:44pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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The bidet is traditionally used in our country to wash our bottom part after have used the wc!....
Country that you visit, tradition that you find...
What is that for a country?
Oh and since this is TS7 having only textured floors is EXETREMELY unimpressive, even with normals mapping. TS has always handled large polygon count scenes well and frankly with the new tools, no user of TS7 has a valid excuse for not having the tiles in polygonal brushed form. The same can be said for ANY surface that has a natural texture to it.
You would modeling each floor tile? The level difference between seam and tile is minimal and can be applied with a normal/bump map with no visible difference.
I don't know if this is a for fun project from cnicolapc or an assignment but what if when the client says that he doesn't wants the flooring and you have made them as geometry? You have much more work to change them as to use a texturemap. ;) |
Post by W!ZARD // Feb 17, 2006, 12:37am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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7's procedural shaders can displace geometery as can soft selected brush form. Rendering depth physically with geometery and not shader or post-op processing. ALL of which is known through the brouchure, manual, and the hundreds of postings about 7's features. Something that "could've" been in 4.3.
Artists use the best tools for their desired results and if a piece isn't of good quality then the artist can only blame their lack of talent. Not using the best tools for their desired results equates to poor work and the artist blaming their tools instead of where it squarely rests their lack of talent. So an 'artist', only the arrogant suggest that they are artists, doesn't have any excuse for not going to thier abilities limits or their programs.
Vray is a high quality canvas and should be treated as thus, period.
Ah thank you for the explanation. I am aware of procedural displacement - I was not previously aware of your specific descriptor - 'polygonal brushed form' - now that I am aware of it your earlier post makes more sense.
I suspect we may be talking at crossed purposes regarding artistic excuses. I say this because your reply seems highly judgemental and not very practical to my way of seeing things.
I agree that an artist would generally use 'the best tool' (best being a highly subjective thing) for their desired result.
I do not agree that "if a piece isn't of good quality then the artist can only blame their lack of talent". If someone looks at my art and says it is poor quality then I blame that viewers lack of artistic appreciation for the perception of lack of quality not my own lack of talent. It may well also be that the artist has ample talent (not a term I'm particularly comfortable with but that's another conversation) but insufficient knowledge of his medium.
Furthermore, there are huge areas of artistic endeavour where quality is NOT considered a measure of value. As an example I could suggest the entire 'Grunge' music is actively antithetical to the idea of quality. Also by your comments it would suggest that you are dismissing Anime work and the use of cartoon-type shaders are due to a lack of talent by the artist because the work lacks 'photrealism'.
This comment "Not using the best tools for their desired results equates to poor work" can certainly be true but is by no means universal. Why should I drive in a nail with a $500.00 hammer when I can acheive the same desired result with a 10 dollar hammer?
I intend no offence here Chrono but I find your comments a little presumptuous. Neither you nor I know what the intention of the artist was in the caase of cnicolapc's bathroom picture. You appear to have assumed (and not without some justification) that cnicolapc's intention was to provide a realistic representation of ceramic tiles. Other respondents (myself included) have also made this assumption.
If this assumption is correct then you are also correct in suggesting the procedural displacement can give a more pleasing and realistic representation. However you and I do not know what cnicolapc's desired result is - the intention may be to depict a floor covered with linoleum that looks like ceramic tiles - in which case a bump map may well suffice. We do not know for sure what the artist was intending.
"Not using the best tools for their desired results equates to poor work" It can equate to poor work but not always - it can also equate to an informed artistic choice which requires no excuse. As an artist I do things the way I want to, to the standards I choose. If and when a work is finished to my requirements then I offer it others for their enjoyment and appraisal - I make no excuses for not making my art the way someone else wants it made.
"So an 'artist', only the arrogant suggest that they are artists, doesn't have any excuse for not going to thier abilities limits or their programs."
Rubbish! An artist is a person who makes art - the art they make is their personal expression, it is what it is and requires no excuses. I have a picture of a butterfly taped to my wardrobe door. It was drawn on cheap note paper with cheap Taiwanese crayons by a 6 year old girl who comes to me for music lessons. It is my favourite peice of art in a house that is full of great art. It asks for and offers no excuses - have you never heard of Art for Arts sake?
Finally "Vray is a high quality canvas and should be treated as thus, period." I'm sure that Vray is a high quality product. I accept that it is your opinion that it should be treated as such however I believe that the paintbrush is not as important as the art it creates and that the art is not as important as the message it conveys.
Art, in my humble opinion, never needs excuses. |
Post by Steinie // Feb 17, 2006, 7:09am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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If he is an Artist you should judge his work at that level and not what tools he used. Tell me what kind of hair was used in Rembrandt's brush. ONLY other Artist would care. If VRay portrays the mood he wants to convey USE IT.
If he is trying to improve his technical skills then the technical critique would be ok.
If he is a professional his main goal would be the best quality possible in the shortest amount of time. Shortcuts, plugins, training for technique and speed etc are important. The client's impression is all that matters.
Chrono, your critique used two of the above without regards to what he's trying to accomplish. Not fair. |
Post by Leif // Feb 17, 2006, 7:48am
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Leif
Total Posts: 276
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hum hum
Artists use the best tools for their desired results
My grandfather, an artist in wood cutting, oil paint, amongst other things, learned a technique of painting in which one could use even the heel of a shoe to paint beautiful landscapes with. |
Post by chrono // Feb 18, 2006, 11:52am
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chrono
Total Posts: 0
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You would modeling each floor tile? The level difference between seam and tile is minimal and can be applied with a normal/bump map with no visible difference. I don't know if this is a for fun project from cnicolapc or an assignment but what if when the client says that he doesn't wants the flooring and you have made them as geometry? You have much more work to change them as to use a texturemap. ;)
Yes I would because it would take roughly equal the time, or less when using procudrals, it would take to make a texture of high enough resolution to be passable and in the end be totally superior to it. You are incorrect on your assumption that textures can equal geometery. Tooling like procedural shaders, displacement mapping, Z-Brush, and SILO wouldn't exist if simple textures could equal actually geometery. And does it really matter if it's for a client or not? Nope not at all, personal projects are always personally C&C'ed harsher because we wanna realize to the best of our ability what we are perceving(spl).
I suspect we may be talking at crossed purposes regarding artistic excuses. I say this because your reply seems highly judgemental and not very practical to my way of seeing things.
Yep! We are, because your defending a 'style' of art, the non-tradional I believe the same that try'ed to destroy ALL tradional art in the flame of radicalism, and I'm pointing out the techincal side and pushing people to not only explore their new packages but also to expand thier abilities. So if it sounds 'harsh' & 'unfair' it's really not.
Something to think about in regards to the new renderer is if TS6.6 took 12 hours to render a 'still' scene and Vray takes 15 minutes to render the same scene why not put the more effort into the scene and end up with a 1 hour render that takes the scene to the next level? This is personally art ONLY.
I'm not gonna respond to the rest for the obvious reason that we've pretty much killed the guys WIP thread already. lol
Steinie, It doesn't matter if it's not 'fair' or not. :rolleyes: And we both know if it was for a client that other programs would be used because of better results and superior speed.
Leif, yep used those in school. Artists knifes are great little tools. A nicely meaningless point though as given how skill overrode the tools ability. |
Post by Norm // Feb 18, 2006, 2:03pm
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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This is Wip 2. Thanks for your advise.
Acchh!! My English is Bad.
I like this speriment. It is coming along nicely.
Tile size is ok if you had a nice dark marble texture. They are traditionally larger tiles than garden varieties. |
Post by geneg // Feb 18, 2006, 6:40pm
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geneg
Total Posts: 41
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Hey group:
Hopefully you clowns didn't scare him off. The intensity level of these responses is set a bit high don't you think?
If your intent is to give cnicolapc a critique on his WIP, I'm all for it. In fact I agree with most of what has been said about his scene and the proportions. But, lets try and keep it all in perspective. Lecturing the guy on what he should do is not a real good tactic, it would turn me off in a heartbeat. Most people respond better to criticism when it is presented in a more persuasive light rather than a heavy handed approach.
If you guys would like to debate the finer points of what defines an 'artist', than lets take it somewhere else, and give the man his thread back.
Cnicolapc, if you're still here, I'm interested in seeing how your WIP is coming along, so show us your progress.
bye
geneg |
Post by saulc12 // Feb 19, 2006, 12:31am
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saulc12
Total Posts: 21
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I like this speriment. It is coming along nicely.
Tile size is ok if you had a nice dark marble texture. They are traditionally larger tiles than garden varieties.
Or quarried limestone, which usually comes in large slabs like this and is also the same kind of colour :)
The bathroom furnishings look fantastic - so stylish |
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