Concerning Dynamic Pose in Workspace

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Concerning Dynamic Pose in Workspace // Tech Forum

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Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 24, 2009, 7:40am

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
Hi, me again. I have a character rigged and weighed and such, and now I'm making the animations. I've got three questions:


1. Is it possible to move the joints independent of one another? For example, I'll close her fist, and the whole arm moves up. I don't want that.


2. How do I rotate joints? For example, I can tilt her head back and forth, and side to side. But how do I turn it?


3. I've tried using FK (Forward Kinematics) as detailed in the manual. But, it affects model of the joint and not the actual model. What's with that?


Thanks in advance.

Post by TomG // Mar 24, 2009, 9:24am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Using the workspace side?


1. Yes, easily possible - need to set Locks in place, and then activate them. A lock determines where the motion stops "feeding through" into the rest of the skeleton. Adding a lock on the appropriate bone will let you activate it to only move things below that bone without affecting things above it. See the manual on locks.



2. Yes, you can. The situation you have is probably related to joint limits, which usually default to only moving in 2 directions. Select the joint and adjust its limits to allow motion in all directions (see manual on setting joint limits).



HTH!

Tom

Post by Igor K Handel // Mar 24, 2009, 9:30am

Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Point 3


Perhaps you need to place IK handle for example on a ankle. With IK create modify tool still selected now click on a lock that is at the hips. this makes chain from handle to lock. Now you can move handle and leg will follow.

hope I understood your question correctly


Cheers

IK Handel

Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 24, 2009, 10:49am

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
All those solutions worked, thanks guys. New question: Why is it that when you set a pose as the default, do some posing, then do the 'reset to default pose' command, it's completely different?

Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 24, 2009, 11:10am

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A lot of times that's because your default pose is outside the joint limits you set. You'll want to set the joint limits first, then set the default pose.

Post by mrbones // Mar 24, 2009, 11:11am

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Total Posts: 1280
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If you posed then pressed the other button, set as default, it will stay in that pose when you press reset to default pose.


Best to save in a tpose as default,

Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 24, 2009, 1:34pm

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
Ah, okay. Thanks Jack, Bones. New questions!


1. Sometimes, even if an area is fully weighed to a bone, some vertices will get left behind. They don't move with the bone or the object. What could cause this?


2. Does EVERYTHING screw up the skeleton? I saved the scene, and went into the model space, then moved some verts. After going back to the workspace, the skeleton displayed as a wireframe, and no longer worked. I loaded the saved scene, and the skeleton wasn't inside the model like it was when I saved, but is now in front of the model.

Post by mrbones // Mar 24, 2009, 1:52pm

mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Hi Jack,

Those vertices are probably being attracted by some other bones on the tree.

Select other bones in paint mode to see where colors appear. The use subtract vertice to unnasign that vertice

You can edit mesh vertices in workspace, if you vetice edit the WS bones in modelspace it will destroy the bones.


Ah, okay. Thanks Jack, Bones. New questions!

1. Sometimes, even if an area is fully weighed to a bone, some vertices will get left behind. They don't move with the bone or the object. What could cause this?

2. Does EVERYTHING screw up the skeleton? I saved the scene, and went into the model space, then moved some verts. After going back to the workspace, the skeleton displayed as a wireframe, and no longer worked. I loaded the saved scene, and the skeleton wasn't inside the model like it was when I saved, but is now in front of the model.

Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 24, 2009, 5:30pm

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
That was it. Thank you, Mr. Bones. Still going!


Why do texture seams split the model into pieces? They only exist on the texture, don't they?

Post by mrbones // Mar 24, 2009, 5:33pm

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Can you show us a screen shot please?


That was it. Thank you, Mr. Bones. Still going!


Why do texture seams split the model into pieces? They only exist on the texture, don't they?

Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 24, 2009, 6:14pm

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
The red lines show where the texture seam is

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/Marshal_banana/seamprob2.jpg


This is what happens:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/Marshal_banana/seamprob1.jpg



Then there's this:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/Marshal_banana/Seriously.jpg

Honestly!

Post by TomG // Mar 25, 2009, 2:23am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
To repeat the earlier info, once you have attached bones in the workspace, you can't edit the model in the Model side. The bones in workspace are new types of data that the Model side knows nothing about, so it will simply destroy that data. However, workspace has better point editing tools than the Model side anyway, so you can just do all your work in the workspace :)


The textures don't divide up a model at all. I would suggest that if you repaint your model all one plain shader, you will still see this effect.


I have no idea what that gap is though - it looks like the geometry is actually separated to be honest, and that the gap that shows up is those vertices moving apart, and leaving a genuine geometric gap. I'd need to see how the model is constructed to know if that was the case, though. Any chance of sharing the model? Or a screen shot showing wireframes? Though the wireframes won't show much on their own, you'd need to try moving the vertices manually, seeing if there are edges connecting them or not.


By "texture seams" I am assuming you mean different areas of UV mapping? Or that you used the Paint Face tools to paint particular faces differently? In either case, that would make the "texture seams" actually line up with the geometry, and I still think the geometry is where the problem lies. Neither UV mapping nor textures beginning and ending can disconnect vertices that are connected, so my first guess is that these vertices are not connected in the first place and only happen to coincide due to construction in the default, blank, pose.


HTH!

Tom

Post by Marshal Banana // Mar 25, 2009, 5:50am

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
Oh, wait. I think I know. When I unwrapped the model (In a separate program), I wanted to get it back to Truespace without triangulation. I found that DirectX format (.X) preserved the UV map, and didn't triangulate. I bet that's why it's all split up.

Post by Igor K Handel // Mar 25, 2009, 9:22am

Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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I hate to be the bringer of bad tidings but the default pose issue may NOT be caused by a pose that it outside the joint limits, though this also may be another cause. Question how could it have been posed in an out of position pose if the limits were already set? Had this exact same problem when researching for my vids.


Believe this is a minor bug. Suggested workaround is to save the object (your rigged model) as an object whilst still in the default pose after rigging binding and weighting have been completed.


Cheers

IK

Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 25, 2009, 9:42am

Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You can use the Heal tool to quickly weld those seams that are causing you problems.

Post by mrbones // Mar 26, 2009, 8:05am

mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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And or set a keyframe in default position at frame 0



I hate to be the bringer of bad tidings but the default pose issue may NOT be caused by a pose that it outside the joint limits, though this also may be another cause. Question how could it have been posed in an out of position pose if the limits were already set? Had this exact same problem when researching for my vids.


Believe this is a minor bug. Suggested workaround is to save the object (your rigged model) as an object whilst still in the default pose after rigging binding and weighting have been completed.


Cheers

IK

Post by Marshal Banana // Apr 13, 2009, 12:07pm

Marshal Banana
Total Posts: 15
Thanks for the help, guys. Another question:


I made another skeleton, and started with the right foot. Now, when I try to set the joint limits, any of the joints on that entire leg affect the whole model. I know it's because that's where I started, but how do I get it to stop?

Post by Jack Edwards // Apr 13, 2009, 1:41pm

Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Normally you'd start with the hip bone. Having the root for your skeleton starting with an appendage can cause problems and it makes setting the joint limits rather difficult... as you noticed. :( Sorry there's no fix for that other than to build the skeleton with the root at the center of your character.

What would be cool would be a tool to change the root and re-order the skeleton...

Post by mrbones // Apr 13, 2009, 1:45pm

mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Fragmotion will do just that.


http://www.fragmosoft.com


Also check animeeple


http://www.animeeple.com


Normally you'd start with the hip bone. Having the root for your skeleton starting with an appendage can cause problems and it makes setting the joint limits rather difficult... as you noticed. :( Sorry there's no fix for that other than to build the skeleton with the root at the center of your character.


What would be cool would be a tool to change the root and re-order the skeleton...
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